AFS1970

You can't legislate breaking equipment, however you could forbid the use of reclaimed water that has ben exposed to hazardous materials in live fire training.

You can't legislate breaking equipment, however you could forbid the use of reclaimed water that has ben exposed to hazardous materials in live fire training.

It won't be the first or the last, but it should give pause to those who think that privatization is the cure all for budget ills.

My FD has never allowed our Associate (non firematic) members to vote for line positions, but they can vote for and hold administrative positions i.e. President, VP, Secretary, Treasurer and Trustee so long as they have met and maintain their attendance requirements. We use a point system to determine member eligibility to vote and Service Officers must also pass an in house test (which we call First grade FF) to be eligible to run for and hold office.This system is currently under revision leaning towards monthly or quarterly service hours along with more in depth testing for each line positions. As one would expect there is resistance, but that has more to do with the amount of service hours required rather than actually requiring the hours themselves. Fortunately the BFD has always held firefighting as the principle mission of our department with social activities and memberships being a secondary concern.

Great post!!
Elections aren't the problem. If you feel change is needed than use the election process to get into a position to make the changes that will make your FD better. How? By drawing members to your cause. How? Perseverance. One thing's for sure quitting won't solve anything. Change happens from within, not from the outside looking in. .

You do not hear anywhere on this thread that " I was beat out by a better guy" or "It was a pick em', two equals going for the same spot and I lost fair and square"
It seems like there is a giant conspiracy throughout the state and no matter who looses, Its fixed or the system sucks or they are quitting the department now that the didn't get the position that they wanted.
I don't want to hear the popularity contest in the volunteer ranks argument anymore either. Every organization has a popularity contest in some capacity.
Some career jobs also see this. One of the top 3 scores can be made. What does that mean? Whoever the Chief, Mayor and Commissioner wants to be Chief, Captain, or Lieutenant gets the job. You can be #1 on the promotional list for 20 years and get beat out by #2 and #3 every time a promotion comes up.
Life sucks. Crappy things happen (being voted out in favor of an inferior firefighter due to popularity), but giving up isn't a feasible option. Most of us live, work or live and work in the communities that we protect. How is quitting an admirable thing to do? You complain that you all are superstar firefighters that would improve the dept. being in an officer position, so if you are such an asset and joined and remained so active because you love doing this, then why would you give up and let the other guys win?
makes no sense to me. If that was me I would stay active protect my community. Staying active and giving your input more than ever will work toward accomplishing what you want. Quitting lets the other guys win.
Sometimes in life the best lessons are learned from failure, so why don't you guys try to learn and grow from this? Stop making excuses and blaming the system, the district, the department, ect. Let this make you all better people and firefighters and hopefully be persistent and go for office again next time around.

We wouldn't need 38 page threads on regionalization of the fire service, either.

While I'm glad that she is going back to ems this has done some real damage to the credibility of the rest of us trying to do what we love. Like I said in an earlier post I wish female firefighters had been more upset about this. I just really hope that people don't think less of me because of people like her when I finally get my chance to go to an academy.

or
Maybe we all should just tell the folks in DC to go F**K themselves cause we're tired of them f**king us!!

You could write your Rep/Senator to fix the obamacare law to treat volunteer FF's fairly in light of what they contribute to the community.
or
You could ask the elected officials in DC to cover Vols for nothing, using some money they get out of things like exempting themselves.
or
You could write your Rep/Senator and to repeal ALL 2409 pages of the law they didn't read before they voted. If they don't, we'll find somebody else to vote for.
BUT
Whatever you write will probably not be even read by your elected official. It will be semi-read by a 20-year-old intern and he will send you a form letter
Didn't our forefathers fight a Revolution because they had no representation?

Nobody, including the Federal Government, knows what will or won't satisfy the ACA requirements! They're still finding out what the law they passed includes.

I'm sure the MENSA contingent on Capitol Hill will add a clause to remove volunteers from the ACA. Not to get political or anything, but ramming the ACA down everyones' throats before working out every angle is typical government stupidity. In due time, people will either look back at this as a great idea, or future governments will do away with it.
Fear not, for our elected leaders can never steer us wrong...

I agree with you. I have been in the fire service for 25 years now and have been a level 2 firefighter for about 15 years. I am a Haz-Mat Tech Basic, National and State certified fire investigator, and I have a training file about an inch thick or more...yet a guy fresh out of FF1 gets 1st asst chief...
I take pride in the fire service and try to uphold the traditions and laws, but its hard when you are one of the few that do that still. I remember when a FF fresh out of basic had to wait to be addressed before they could speak at meetings and such, or when I as a Junior Firefighter had to stand at attention when the chief walked into the room. When senior firefighters spoke, everyone else shut their yaps and listened or got slapped upside the head. When an officer gave an order at a fire scene it was carried out regardless of your training or experience...you did it (unless it was blatently dangerous). Today...these young members get FF1 and start to get big heads and big ideas and visions of glamour and fame and they run their mouths at drills, calls and meetings, disrespect senior members and officers....I even had a guy argue with me in front of the home owner while pumping out their basement...ARGUE with me?!?!?! One of the senior guys/fire commissioners yelled at him and said "a senior fire officer has given an order and you will follow it!!!"
Its getting dangerous...in my area there are MULTIPLE chiefs under the age of 25...But if those of us that can make changes all left the department, who will be left to make the necessary changes and fight for the tax payers and people that call 911? So I guess thats why I am staying, maybe lay low for a few months, then start to poke into things that will anger people...LOL

Sore subject with me brother, can I please vent a little to all of you??
We had our "popularity contest" (elections) last Monday night. I have been serving for the past three years; 2 as Captain and one as assist chief which I held proudly. This past year, our two captains finaly finished their FF1 training, one even took the FF2 as well (thats right folks we had 2 captains serving without basic training. They based their qualifications on being able to work all equipment and knowing the department...) This year for nominations one of the two Captains and another member were nominated over me for 1st assistant, I was nominated for nothing. The other current Captain was nom for 2nd asst. Both current Captains have no officers training and very little if any experience as interior firefighters. I was beat out by someone fresh out of FF1 with no experience all because I was making a push to change things, focus more on safety and upgrading equipment and the department obviously didnt like that so they voted me out.
That bothers me, and the more I make a stink about it the more they get in my face and tell me its done so live with it. Another more experienced member 35 years in the service made inquiries into their training records and they have next to nothing besides FF1 and 2 yet our SOP's require FF1 with 5 years in the department, EVOC, Haz-Mat Ops, FBAA/Principles, and at least 2-3 officers courses like NIMS 700, ICS 100, 200 etc etc. They have none of these.
Who can I contact that would get the best results to fix this issue? FASNY? OFPC (or do they even handle stuff like this) local government? State government?
It realy sucks too since we just moved into our first house, in this district so I cant move to another area with a better department...
Sorry for the rant, just realy bothers me to no end...this backwoods redneck volunteer we-dont-have-to-follow-the-rules BS thats going to kill someone if not changed....help.

WHAT?!?!? I don't believe it. Next you'll be telling me the taxpayers buy you T-Shirts and uniforms too! Unbelievable.
Seriously, thank you for having some common sense. Happy Thanksgiving.

My department now is a fire department. I work for and get paid by them.
I also belong to a union. We do fundraising, coordinate the honor guard, get members involved in the parades, sponsor a little league team as well as a whole host of other items (including negotiating our contracts.)
Wow, look... We have two separate organizations. Both with similar goals but different functions.
Just because YOU don't get the system, doesn't mean it's stupid or a waste of time and energy. The NY fire system is a little convoluted, but it is also filled with tradition and in many cases, pride.
There are things you just can't get done from the floor. The separate organizations provide a means to get things done in many cases.

Date: 11/25/2013
Time: 07:00
Incident Type: Protest at Construction Site
Location: 66 Summer St (between Broad St & Main St)
District: Stamford
Units: Stamford Police
Description: Three protesters have climbed a construction crane (approximately 15 stories up) at the site of the Park Square West Phase II building. This is on very narrow section of Summer St next to Majestic Theater. SPD on scene, evaluating incident. There is at least one protester on the ground that may have radio contact with those on the crane. Will likely call Hostage Negotiation Team to deal with individuals. Governor Malloy is due at site for event later this morning for an event.
UPDATE: Media now reporting that 2 out of 3 protestors have been brought down and that the reason for the protest was some sort of union issue. (no reports on if it was pro-union or anti-union).
UPDATE 2: This was not a union related protest, it was a part of a larger protest of UBS's involvement in strip mining in PA. The same group protested at the Parade, had lookouts on nearby buildings and then charged the UBS HQ, eventually chaining themselves up on the 5th floor.

Not being a Facebook user, do IA's posted here automatically transfer over there? Anything I post will be forum only, not FB.

Date: 11/25/2013
Time: 07:00
Incident Type: Protest at Construction Site
Location: 66 Summer St (between Broad St & Main St)
District: Stamford
Units: Stamford Police
Description: Three protesters have climbed a construction crane (approximately 15 stories up) at the site of the Park Square West Phase II building. This is on very narrow section of Summer St next to Majestic Theater. SPD on scene, evaluating incident. There is at least one protester on the ground that may have radio contact with those on the crane. Will likely call Hostage Negotiation Team to deal with individuals. Governor Malloy is due at site for event later this morning for an event.
UPDATE: Media now reporting that 2 out of 3 protestors have been brought down and that the reason for the protest was some sort of union issue. (no reports on if it was pro-union or anti-union).
UPDATE 2: This was not a union related protest, it was a part of a larger protest of UBS's involvement in strip mining in PA. The same group protested at the Parade, had lookouts on nearby buildings and then charged the UBS HQ, eventually chaining themselves up on the 5th floor.

I understand that, my point is that if the level of training is so low they would be killed using a simulator, should they be allowed into live fire conditions on real calls? The answer should be no, but...

Garbage men still ride the back step, and one was recently killed doing so. While allot of the safety requirements we deal with may seem bothersome, we are told time and time again that what others do is no reason for us to do the same.
I have heard of allot of agencies that go in with two meters just in case one malfunctions, this requires at least 2 people. I once kept a mutual aid unit coming in because I wanted a second meter ready and was blasted by the Chief for doing so. Funny thing is the mutual aid company (which was very close to the call) blasted me for taking the meter and a crew in a pick up truck to the call. I just didn't need anything bigger.
I once questioned full turnout gear and SCBA on these calls to a senior officer, and his response was CO is the product of incomplete combustion, thus there is a risk of fire, however small, when investigating these calls. I really had no argument against him on that one.

And the race card gets played again......

Dude, this has everything to do with him and his agenda, which is shared by many powerful folks in NYC and NYS. De Blasio's agenda takes PC to an entirely new level, and this is but a taste of what is likely to follow.
Mark my words: law enforcement and emergency services are going to suffer greatly in this new administration, especially given that their agenda is supported by the same judges behind this class at the Rock!

What it really means is this.
There is nothing I can do, but people are watching, so I will say something meaningless into my radio so that the public thinks I am in complete command and control of the situation.

What it really means is this.
There is nothing I can do, but people are watching, so I will say something meaningless into my radio so that the public thinks I am in complete command and control of the situation.