firecapt32

My first reaction to this was "no way" but on futher reflection I find myself saying "maybe" under certain circumstances.
first- there should be a "parent night" for all under 18 potential, so that parents find out what being a firefighter is all about and I dont mean just going to the station to hang out--I think when you tell them the reality of being a good firefighter, they might look at it a little differently. No matter how you slice it--there are still an average of 100 firefighters deaths every year and over 80,000 injuries. so they should know its not all fun and games. I think some times we sugar coat things for our recuitment.
Second-strict policies on when they would be allowed in the station. ie no responses after 11 pm. on school nights. No leaving school for alarms. No failing grades in school. Things like that.
you get my concerns-- Young citizens can learn a lot of respopnsibilites from the fire service so if you do this you have to do it right.

Great question.
This is unfortunate, but it does happen, particularly in smaller depts. often those without a career chief.
Basicly, the union must make this an issue. It is critical that they legally document this with the AHJ, showing that this is a failure on the dept. and not a failure of the members to comply.
At that point, the AHJ has major liability, for any member injured and for any civilian injury and even for property loss. They may not care, but, they need to publicly know about it.
Often, local unions do not make a big enough deal about this. They need to.

>>"...I was asked to respond to your question regarding required training for volunteer firefighters. Let me preface this answer by saying that PESH does not differentiate between volunteers and career firefighters; both are considered employees under State law." <<
While PESH does not differentiate between career and volunteer, NYS Law does. NYCRR Part 426 (Minimum Standards for Firefighting Personnel) requires the following:
§ 426.1 Purpose.
The purpose of this Part is to establish uniform minimum State training standards designed to increase competency and reliability of fire service personnel; improve and expand the professional training available to paid fire service personnel by developing uniform minimum standards for basic, in-service, advanced in-service and promotional supervisory training programs, with emphasis on proper subject content and better instruction;
§426.7 In-service fire training.
(a) Permanently appointed firefighters and fire officers normally assigned to command company operations at emergencies shall annually receive a minimum of 100 contact hours of in- service training in the following subject areas:
The 100 hours technically does not acknowledge the "8 hour" OSHA/PESH requirements, but can easily accomidate it under the required subject matter.
Each career firefighter/officers training must be documented and submitted to NYS annually.
I have seen a number of complaints from the volunteer firefighters that they are no allowed to have MTO (municipal training officers). MTO's are mandated by NYCRR Part 427 to facilitate NYCRR Part 426. So until Part 426 requires all firefighters in NYS to have 100 hours of annual inservice (plus the initial and officer training) MTO's will not be allowed.
The NYSPFF fought very hard over 35 years ago to creat this legislation. FASNY fought very hard against it and the result is the above legislation and a divided fire service.

I see it a little differently--although your right about egos and things that might get in the way and I do agree with most of that.
I see many progresive firefighters coming through the ranks--firefighters with training--certified training. Not that there is any thing wrong with in house stuff. You have to think globely and not all the time localy.
There are many Departments that are taking aggresive steps to mandate training for their firefighters.From FIREFIGHTER ONE--SURVIVIAL--FAST-- OSHA--BBP -- HAZ MAT-- OFFICER TRAINING. you get the idea. The world is changing and we have to change with it or be left behind. That holds true for the fire service. The axium "lead--follow--or get out of the way" means as much today as it ever did.
How many times have we stated the We "are held to a higher standard" We have to keep that in the back of our minds as we move foward to protect the citizens of out community.
We have to blend the traditions of the past with a vision to the future. We also have to be honest with the community--we have to take a hard look at manpower/response times/training with one thing in mind--TO PROTECT THE CITIZENS OF OUR COMMUNITY IN THE BEST WAY POSSIBLE
The best fire apparatus--the best equipment-the best intentions are no subsitute for training-dediciation and committment to the Department--to the community--to the fire servive.
just my thoughts

I recently came across another "fine" video on another site of a training session gone bad (for lack of better terms I really want to use). Unfortunately it is of a department that is in the coverage area of this site.
Just like the title says, what were you thinking?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
As a certified instructor you all should be givin' a swift kick on the backside, this was not funny, this could have been even potentially worse outcome. And why even post it?????
I don't care if I get reprimanded or suspended from the site for posting this. Everyone involved should be suspended by their officer / chief. Morons!!!!!
Obviously no one believes in safety anymore.

(Seth and mods, if you take this down, please me know by a PM. Thank you.)

I see it a little differently--although your right about egos and things that might get in the way and I do agree with most of that.
I see many progresive firefighters coming through the ranks--firefighters with training--certified training. Not that there is any thing wrong with in house stuff. You have to think globely and not all the time localy.
There are many Departments that are taking aggresive steps to mandate training for their firefighters.From FIREFIGHTER ONE--SURVIVIAL--FAST-- OSHA--BBP -- HAZ MAT-- OFFICER TRAINING. you get the idea. The world is changing and we have to change with it or be left behind. That holds true for the fire service. The axium "lead--follow--or get out of the way" means as much today as it ever did.
How many times have we stated the We "are held to a higher standard" We have to keep that in the back of our minds as we move foward to protect the citizens of out community.
We have to blend the traditions of the past with a vision to the future. We also have to be honest with the community--we have to take a hard look at manpower/response times/training with one thing in mind--TO PROTECT THE CITIZENS OF OUR COMMUNITY IN THE BEST WAY POSSIBLE
The best fire apparatus--the best equipment-the best intentions are no subsitute for training-dediciation and committment to the Department--to the community--to the fire servive.
just my thoughts

I see it a little differently--although your right about egos and things that might get in the way and I do agree with most of that.
I see many progresive firefighters coming through the ranks--firefighters with training--certified training. Not that there is any thing wrong with in house stuff. You have to think globely and not all the time localy.
There are many Departments that are taking aggresive steps to mandate training for their firefighters.From FIREFIGHTER ONE--SURVIVIAL--FAST-- OSHA--BBP -- HAZ MAT-- OFFICER TRAINING. you get the idea. The world is changing and we have to change with it or be left behind. That holds true for the fire service. The axium "lead--follow--or get out of the way" means as much today as it ever did.
How many times have we stated the We "are held to a higher standard" We have to keep that in the back of our minds as we move foward to protect the citizens of out community.
We have to blend the traditions of the past with a vision to the future. We also have to be honest with the community--we have to take a hard look at manpower/response times/training with one thing in mind--TO PROTECT THE CITIZENS OF OUR COMMUNITY IN THE BEST WAY POSSIBLE
The best fire apparatus--the best equipment-the best intentions are no subsitute for training-dediciation and committment to the Department--to the community--to the fire servive.
just my thoughts

I see it a little differently--although your right about egos and things that might get in the way and I do agree with most of that.
I see many progresive firefighters coming through the ranks--firefighters with training--certified training. Not that there is any thing wrong with in house stuff. You have to think globely and not all the time localy.
There are many Departments that are taking aggresive steps to mandate training for their firefighters.From FIREFIGHTER ONE--SURVIVIAL--FAST-- OSHA--BBP -- HAZ MAT-- OFFICER TRAINING. you get the idea. The world is changing and we have to change with it or be left behind. That holds true for the fire service. The axium "lead--follow--or get out of the way" means as much today as it ever did.
How many times have we stated the We "are held to a higher standard" We have to keep that in the back of our minds as we move foward to protect the citizens of out community.
We have to blend the traditions of the past with a vision to the future. We also have to be honest with the community--we have to take a hard look at manpower/response times/training with one thing in mind--TO PROTECT THE CITIZENS OF OUR COMMUNITY IN THE BEST WAY POSSIBLE
The best fire apparatus--the best equipment-the best intentions are no subsitute for training-dediciation and committment to the Department--to the community--to the fire servive.
just my thoughts

I perceive some common misconceptions among members of the Fire Service in NY State that should probably be cleared up:
FAST (RIT or MAT) is not a NY State rule, it is an OSHA regulation, hence, Federal law.
You are not allowed to enter a structure on fire beyond the incipient stage without SCBA, training in its operation, and a qualified rescue team in place.
The rescue team must remain in place as long as anyone in SCBA is in the building.
NY State is not responsible for training you. It is the responsibility of your employer, that is, your department. If you are a volunteer, you are considered an employee of your department under this regulation.

Honest question, honest answer. There were more than likely years when your village paid very little into the system because the investments the Retirement System was in, did very well. To keep the system in top shape, and properly funded, the yearly municipal contributions fluctuate with the rate of return from; you guessed it, the markets. NYSPERS/NYSPFRS has BILLIONS in stocks, and by the way pays tens of millions of dollars to various fund managers. So the reality is a public pension system that invests in equities markets, and pays quite a few thousand private salaries on Wall Street as well.

There was a Chief in a CT town years ago that must have had a radio implant. The second the County finished the dispatch, the Chief signed on as responding. Somehow I think there must have been some lag times before he was truly in his role as Chief and initiating an effective response.
No matter what criteria 'we' use to establish these times, the only one that matters is the time between the person summoning our assistance and our ability to intervene and assist. Not a first responder getting there and holding their hand telling them more help is on the way, actually being able to provide them sufficient equipment and members to deal with their situation, be it fire, ems or other.
Anything else is just creative accounting.

Otherwise known as the cross your fingers and hope for the best policy....

16 fire5 In Westchester a Deputy Coordinator (Battalion) is dispatched upon the transmission of a 10-75 by the IC. Since NY is a home rule state it is the chief/IC's call on requesting mutual aid. Most departments have their major alarm policies in the CAD at 60 control usually up to at least the 3rd alarm. If I am on a scene as a battalion I only request through 60 control what the IC asks for, sometimes they say which dept they want sometimes they don't, in that case I will simply request (for example 1&1 to ABC dept) and leave the rest in the capable hands at 60 control.

"THE GUYS" is a must see play for anyone associated with or knows anyone involved with 9/11/01. Dick is a great supporter of BurnCare and is doing the play gratus. All we are asking for is a donation to the Foundation if you so choose to do so. There is no admission fee. The play is apx 90 min long and belive me you will be spellbound.
As Director of BurnCare we are earmarking all donations from this event for the Children Burn Camp. So if you come be generous.
Walter Ferguson
Director BurnCare...EveryWhere Foundation Inc

"THE GUYS" is a must see play for anyone associated with or knows anyone involved with 9/11/01. Dick is a great supporter of BurnCare and is doing the play gratus. All we are asking for is a donation to the Foundation if you so choose to do so. There is no admission fee. The play is apx 90 min long and belive me you will be spellbound.
As Director of BurnCare we are earmarking all donations from this event for the Children Burn Camp. So if you come be generous.
Walter Ferguson
Director BurnCare...EveryWhere Foundation Inc

"THE GUYS" is a must see play for anyone associated with or knows anyone involved with 9/11/01. Dick is a great supporter of BurnCare and is doing the play gratus. All we are asking for is a donation to the Foundation if you so choose to do so. There is no admission fee. The play is apx 90 min long and belive me you will be spellbound.
As Director of BurnCare we are earmarking all donations from this event for the Children Burn Camp. So if you come be generous.
Walter Ferguson
Director BurnCare...EveryWhere Foundation Inc

Certified training and qualificiations are two of the most important things a fire department can require. Although I am not a fan of the two week firefighter one course, it does provide a vehicle to let students get the training completed in a shorter period of time.
As a Fire Instructor I do include survival in any firefighter one class that I am the lead. FAST is a course that helps firefighters help firefighters and should be taken by well seasoned fire personnel not by firefighters with less the a few years under their belts get some time on the nozzle or on the ladderfirst.It will help you undrstand the importance of FAST.
The AHJ has the right to set the standards and they should, they should also supplpy the vehicle to meet these standards. How many departments pay milage to the firefighters that attend training either at WCDES or NYS Fire Academy? or a meal allowence.
Department should have a real training budget and Chiefs that know how to administer. Todays Fire chief is way more then getting the wet stuff on the red stuff. It administration/human resourses/training/osha/hazmat/public relations /budget process/recruitment-- just to name a few.
Todays modern Fire Department is a miramid of things and they shuood be reflected in the training and qualifications of the firefighters and officers.
just my thoughs

A few more thoughts--- a good well rounded fire department certified fire training program for a department will establish well rounded, educated firefighters. They in turn will make well educated productive fire officers and that produces the fire chief with certifications and education.
Training--certification--fire education make a good fire officer or chief not "its our turn" or popularity.
There I go thinking again

Certified training and qualificiations are two of the most important things a fire department can require. Although I am not a fan of the two week firefighter one course, it does provide a vehicle to let students get the training completed in a shorter period of time.
As a Fire Instructor I do include survival in any firefighter one class that I am the lead. FAST is a course that helps firefighters help firefighters and should be taken by well seasoned fire personnel not by firefighters with less the a few years under their belts get some time on the nozzle or on the ladderfirst.It will help you undrstand the importance of FAST.
The AHJ has the right to set the standards and they should, they should also supplpy the vehicle to meet these standards. How many departments pay milage to the firefighters that attend training either at WCDES or NYS Fire Academy? or a meal allowence.
Department should have a real training budget and Chiefs that know how to administer. Todays Fire chief is way more then getting the wet stuff on the red stuff. It administration/human resourses/training/osha/hazmat/public relations /budget process/recruitment-- just to name a few.
Todays modern Fire Department is a miramid of things and they shuood be reflected in the training and qualifications of the firefighters and officers.
just my thoughs

also what i am about to say will be unpopular with many but i really do not care. this pertains to volunteer departments of which i belong to one.Since nYS and WC have many many FD's and EMS agencies to please it is the onus of these towns and villages to bridge the gap on training needed and not wait for 60 control to pick up the pieces. The AHJ (Authority having jrusidiction) IE the town or village has every right to book accredited standardized training (of which there area zillion companies out there who will come and do it) and as long as the training hours and curriculum covered is logged and stored then their members are trained. This training has to be considered more important then the $3000 LED light bars and otherfrivilous items that are bought with taxpayer money. I am painting the taget on my back as we speak so feel free to fire back those who do not agree but ask yourselves this: how can you disagree with training whether it be in house or at valhalla ?

Today marks the 33rd anniversary of the Waldbaum's fire in Brooklyn, NY where 6 firefighters perished, when a bowstring truss roof collapsed, sending all to their fiery death. I remember this day like it was yesterday. My dad, Tony Dragonetti, was assigned to E-254 and worked the 9x6 tour. He was walking into the firehouse as 254 & 153 were pulling out onto Avenue U. He would have been on the roof in place of Terry Cambell who was badly burned. I was 14 and remember waking up to my mom's screams, when she heard the news of the fire on the radio. We took a ride to the scene from LI and found my dad sitting on the back of 254's rig in tears. I never saw my dad cry and my mom hug my dad like the way she did at that moment. I still well up with tears when I think about that scene. It was a sigh of relief for me to see my dad safe and extremely sad at the same time to hear him say the names of the guys that perished. I spent my entire childhood life and beyond at the firehouse and these brave men were my family and will always have a place in my heart. May they be remembered forever and RIP......

I will agree with your assessment to a certain degree. In most cases you don't need a college degree to be a firefighter. However there is a certain amount of maturing that you obtain in your years at college. The ability to organize, prioritize, execute and summarize is honed during your college studies. I have seen first hand that in my career, it was those who attended some form of post high school training did better on the promotional exams. I also saw a probie that who barley made it out of high school not able to understand the 24 hour clock.
When I was in high school I considered going into the F.B.I. I was told that the F.B.I. wouldn't consider any applicant unless that person had a 4 year college degree. I was told it could be for basket weaving (I was in HS in the early 70's). The reason was that they want the applicant to have that 4 years of the maturing process.
The bottom line is in my experience those who had at least a 2 year associates degree or better, advanced quicker and higher than those who didn't.

In every class that I am part of either as a lead or helper I state the following:
Your fire depratments arent that big--- you should have a very good idea of the type of construction in your response areas. Carry a camera and take pictures of any construction that you see in your town. Put the pictures on a power point and throw them on a screen in the station for a drill and just talk about how things are build and how they might react if there is a fire in them.
It is always good to see the building as they go up before they cover up any thing.

In every class that I am part of either as a lead or helper I state the following:
Your fire depratments arent that big--- you should have a very good idea of the type of construction in your response areas. Carry a camera and take pictures of any construction that you see in your town. Put the pictures on a power point and throw them on a screen in the station for a drill and just talk about how things are build and how they might react if there is a fire in them.
It is always good to see the building as they go up before they cover up any thing.

Here's a neat sign from a fire we had a week or so ago. A F/F on scene said this was a perfect slide at a sizeup class. Agreed. Something this simple can tell you alot about who could be in this home.
Upon arrival it could not be confirmed that everyone was out of the house. This simple set of signs on the lamp post in the front yard gives you a good start. Looks like you have at least 3 kids in this home. You now know thier first names as well, the IC can relay their names to the search crews, who now can call out the kids names now. maybe they react different to hearing their individual names if they are hidding somewhere.
You have their pictures, scan the crowds or neighbors homes, you may find them with help from the pictures in front of you. Of course the signs may be a few years old, but you could tell by the conditon of the signs, plus Im sure they would probably be in the same ballpark of age as shown on the photos.
You never know what simple signs are right in front of your eyes while doing a sizeup. Slow down and take a moment to look at everything you see.
The Mother and 3 kids were at a neighbors home.