M' Ave

 
How do we know the Commissioners didn't make the right decision for the public they're sworn to serve?  

 
They kept saying one career firefighter on one fire engine shows up and they are correct. What they are not doing is finishing the rest of the story . When I got hired we had 16 strong career with 400 Volunteers with about 300 give or take and the rest [ 100 ]the older members . The Career staff runs Engine 58 and Engine 59 . When a call came in on the fire phone the firefighter at HQ answered the call and got the info . When it was determined whos call it was [ Eng58 lower Port Chester ] with most of the work or Eng 59 with more area but less work [ mostly bedroom  but some very large buildings [ General  foods 1900 by 500 ] and so on . If it was 58's call he would stop talking and the Sta. 4 firefighter [ Eng 59 ]would get the rest of the info with 58 hitting the road mostly in 60 or so sec. I pulled up to many working fires to find Volunteer firefighters either already standing there or in the building looking for people or the fire . Engine 58 & 59 have 800 gallon tanks and preconnect  lines more scotts to handle the guys already on location .the firefighters would take the lines in and starting to attack the fire . As a rule we did not hit hydrants but had the tools to do so . The next in engine would supply 58 or 59 .That is what was taken away from the dept . 

Not really understanding the logic of 1200 calls, but only 20 serious in nature.  How many of the smaller calls would have turned into something more serious if the career engine had not responded with water quickly?

Does PC really need 7 pieces of Engine apparatus?  Probably not but that's a whole other story - towns keeping with traditions of we had 5,6,7 engines for decades so we still need them.  Times and technology change.  Probably get away with 4 engines in PC and consolidate manpower.  Same in places like village of Mamaroneck. Both with 4,5 fire houses do we need that in a small town?    But what do I know.  

Can anyone provide information (facts) as to why  the board made this decision, and what, if any, plan they have for fire coverage moving forward. 

*SPY SHOTS*
New FDNY Fleet Services Wrecker
2016 Mack Granite/Century
 
Photos from: Pete's Towing and Auto Body
 

 

 
Photos from: Pete's Towing and Auto Body

Last wet down I went to in Larchmont was maybe in 1974 when they purchased their 75 ft. Mack  aerialscope. I got home three days later. I doubt political correctness will permit a repeat of that type party.

It is staffed with dispatchers (2, I think) and firemen and officers. 

This is a rerun of the same discussion over the years.  Nothing is going to change so long as we have these little empires and emperors running things.
 

It is staffed with dispatchers (2, I think) and firemen and officers. 

It is staffed with dispatchers (2, I think) and firemen and officers. 

There is also the other BS contingency plan....
 
Staffing RRV units with 2 firemen and an officer to respond solely to EMS.  This is nothing more than a "stop-the-clock" measure....
 
Wanna free up more ALS/BLS units?  Start a PSA about when you should call 911 and when you should buck-up for a cab!  Too often the "patient" having the emergency has all the ability to stop in the bathroom, get dressed and walk themselves downstairs....THATS NOT AN EMERGENCY CONDITION....

There is also the other BS contingency plan....
 
Staffing RRV units with 2 firemen and an officer to respond solely to EMS.  This is nothing more than a "stop-the-clock" measure....
 
Wanna free up more ALS/BLS units?  Start a PSA about when you should call 911 and when you should buck-up for a cab!  Too often the "patient" having the emergency has all the ability to stop in the bathroom, get dressed and walk themselves downstairs....THATS NOT AN EMERGENCY CONDITION....

There is also the other BS contingency plan....
 
Staffing RRV units with 2 firemen and an officer to respond solely to EMS.  This is nothing more than a "stop-the-clock" measure....
 
Wanna free up more ALS/BLS units?  Start a PSA about when you should call 911 and when you should buck-up for a cab!  Too often the "patient" having the emergency has all the ability to stop in the bathroom, get dressed and walk themselves downstairs....THATS NOT AN EMERGENCY CONDITION....

There is also the other BS contingency plan....
 
Staffing RRV units with 2 firemen and an officer to respond solely to EMS.  This is nothing more than a "stop-the-clock" measure....
 
Wanna free up more ALS/BLS units?  Start a PSA about when you should call 911 and when you should buck-up for a cab!  Too often the "patient" having the emergency has all the ability to stop in the bathroom, get dressed and walk themselves downstairs....THATS NOT AN EMERGENCY CONDITION....

There is also the other BS contingency plan....
 
Staffing RRV units with 2 firemen and an officer to respond solely to EMS.  This is nothing more than a "stop-the-clock" measure....
 
Wanna free up more ALS/BLS units?  Start a PSA about when you should call 911 and when you should buck-up for a cab!  Too often the "patient" having the emergency has all the ability to stop in the bathroom, get dressed and walk themselves downstairs....THATS NOT AN EMERGENCY CONDITION....

I like how when TC folded the Commissioner came out and said that FDNY had foreseen this scenario and made plans for it; in reality their plan was just to work their existing crews to death for as long as needed until someone came up with another idea.

Depending on their funding and organizational set up, the argument can be made that they technically aren't really a government entity, but rather a private entity.  As a private entity, they can more of less do whatever they want to within the law.  Within that, if it was a democratic decision within the rules of the organization, then the concept of "majority rules" applies.  Not everyone always agrees with every choice an organization makes.  The phrase itself does not actually endorse any specific religion since the term "God" is pretty much common across most religions.  I agree that there would be an uproar if one of the other phrases you listed were put on the apparatus.
 
We can certainly debate the appropriateness of marking their vehicles in this way, but it's a far cry from ramming it down anyone's throat.  At it's core, it's advertising and there is little functional difference between seeing the message on a fire truck vs a billboard vs a sign in front of a church vs someone's POV.
 
Additionally, the phrase "In God We Trust" is a nation motto and printed on all of our money.  As such, it can also be viewed as a symbol of patriotism similar to displaying the American Flag on apparatus.
 
 
Disclaimer: My religious affiliation is Recovered Catholic and I support an individuals right to practice their religion of choice or none at all, as long as it doesn't violate our laws.  I prefer that others afford me the same consideration.

Ya gotta remember, the lowest bidder who meets the spec gets the bid.  There's no preference given to any builder.  

Ya gotta remember, the lowest bidder who meets the spec gets the bid.  There's no preference given to any builder.  

Many would argue that it doesn't work consistently in all areas.

Whats interesting is that in Westchester if you created a county wide department, minus Yonkers and New Rochelle. Closed fire houses because some small towns have 4 houses when they probably need 1 or 2. Or you have 2 towns next to each other and Town A fire house sits right on the town line that borders Town B and is closer to respond to areas in Town B but doesn't and Town B firehouse is half a mile or more away. If you consolidated, closed firehouses, got rid of apparatus. Westchester probably only needs 2 Rescues. 1 in the north and 1 in the south. If Manhattan only has 1 then westchester doesn't need more. Towns in the Sound Shore probably can get away with 6 firehouses. Now think about the savings- less apparatus, less firehouses to keep maintaining, the equipment. Thats a lot of savings. Plus in this study did they count the total amount of volunteers? meaning the non active guys? I have nothing against volunteers none at all. But common sense around Westchester is you could probably save millions by consolidating and have response based not on town lines. Taxes are high enough and i just believe this would bring savings. But it will never happen based on many factors.

I've been a volunteer and career firefighter too. I often work along side of volunteers. I agree that we should be more united and respectful than we are.
From my experience and perspective, the volunteers oftentimes are more of an obstacle in getting to that place than the career folks. I often hear claims about how we're all doing the same job, have the same training, etc., but the fact is we aren't and we don't. Unfortunately, when you try to discuss this, the only thing too many on the volunteer side seem to take from it is that career guys are great and volunteers suck rather than understanding that career guys can be "better" by virtue of those differences in training and experience, but that doesn't mean that the volunteers are automatically inadequate. It's a lot like comparing pro athletes to college/high school athletes. The pros are typically better, which one would expect, but a lot of the non-pro athletes are pretty darn good, if not just as good in some cases. And in some cases, their best just isn't good enough.
We hear claims about how fires don't care if you're career or volunteer or that the person who's house is on fire doesn't care if you're career or volunteer, but who yells the most about training mandates or being held to any sort of standard? Who thinks it's perfectly ok to give a person a few dozen hours of basic introductory training (or none at all) and then turn that new person loose to respond and actively participate on calls? Who thinks it's appropriate to make a teenager with little actual experience a line officer?
IMO, these are the things that are at the very heart of the animosity between career and volunteer from the career side. Too many in the volunteer ranks want to be viewed as equal to the career guys without putting in the work necessary to truly be equal. Yes, there are places where truly providing services on the same level are not realistic (rural areas for one) and they do the best they can under tough circumstances, but there are others where the departments are just not being honest with themselves or their communities regarding the level of service they can realistically provide as a department or as an individual.
It's also frustrating to see comments about how career guys only care about the paycheck and don't have the pride in the job because we don't work fundraisers to pay the bills or in some cases don't live in the community that we work in. While there are career guys that are like that, the majority aren't and you'll find people like that in any career and you know there are plenty of volunteers that are all about the t-shirts and image rather than the work and service to the community.
Like you said, career and volunteer share a lot in common.
Personally, I try to be respectful of the volunteers in my area, but it's very hard at times to view some of them as peers when they do some of the stuff that they do and that includes burning down buildings that should not have burned to the extent that they did.

In most places conditions are so much different.
1) Buildings, exposures, population etc are generally much different.
2) Training requirements are much different. In most places today career firefighters are required to attend a fulltime 16-18 week recruit school before riding on any fire trucks. Usually, during each shift, some form of training or building surveys are done in order to keep their required skills proficient.
3) Career firefighters operate under a semi military environment. There is a chain of command that must be followed. If rules or policy is not followed, some form of discipline can be taken against that individual.
4) To become a career firefighter there is a written and oral testing process, along with a very intense medical and a difficult CPAT agility test to successfully pass. Later comes a character investigation done by most police departments. As we know, the numbers are very high for those that apply, yet few are chosen.
5) Promotions within the career fire service are very difficult as well. Many individuals spent many years studying for the test day. In addition there is usually an oral interview with a score rating. When it is finely over, few are chosen over the number of individuals testing. Sometimes, there is also special school requirements that must be completed within a period of time to maintain that officer level.
The end result is that in most cases, only the very best candidates are chosen. For that, the people who pay for these firefighters expect the very best of service. And rightfully so. Those people have every right to expect their firefighters to help them in their time of need. And for those firefighters to thrown themselves into danger if necessary. That is the trade off. And if you happen to be one of those career firefighters, because of that, you must fully understand, that you are held to a higher standard than most individuals. You drop the ball and every other career firefighter gets dragged through the mud because of your foolish actions. The public trust you to go into their homes and apartments when no one is home. They will even hand you over their sick baby because they trust you. There's no other job like it.
Does the public appreciate what VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS do. Of course they do. Those guys are out there doing a job to help the public in their most desperate moments. No matter what the weather is, they are out there. They give up a nights sleep and still are expected to go to their fulltime jobs to support their families the next morning. Some come from outstanding careers or backgrounds. They have even helped me too.
I was a career firefighter. I was a volunteer firefighter as well. A career for 30 years and volunteer for 5 years prior to that. During my years as a career firefighter, on a few occasions I worked with volunteer firefighters. They depended on me and I depended on them. Yet when it was over, "you stay on your side of the fence, I'll stay on mine". That's pretty sad actually. Just a few hours before, we were cold and wet together. We might have had a few pretty hectic moments together. I'm sure their family members worried about them, just like my family members worried about me. We attended LODD funerals together for volunteer firefighters and career firefighters. The fact is that the smoke and heat was always the same. Career Firefighters and Volunteer Firefighters share a lot in common. They share things that no other groups share.
If you were to visit my home town you would find a Civil War going on. Between career and volunteer firefighters. Should I try to hide it ? No. Although I am not at all proud of what goes on here, "I know we are NOT alone". The reality is this, we should respect each other for what you do. "Instead of Fighting, We should be Uniting". Maybe it's time to think that over a bit. Remember, there are no promises made of going home in this fire service business. Over the years I learned that because I attended so many firefighter LODD funerals.

That's certainly subject to debate.