M' Ave

Outside career departments ( i know of at least one in Westchester) do send their officer candidates to FDNY FLIPS school. Besides, to be eligible you need 5 years as an FDNY firefighter. That's more experience than probably any volunteer department can offer. As far as the actual content of the class - someone in the know would have to detail that.
I'm not a firefighter, but im close friends with a bunch and the father-in-law is an FDNY Lt on a busy truck and i take issue with the tone of the first part of you're comments. I know the father-in-law is anything but a paper pusher, hes a respected fire officer and leader of firefighters...be that on a fire scene, at the fire house or off duty.
Nice topic bendel, something that needs to be discussed.

This is a tough topic and one that's surely going to raise the collective blood pressure. However, that said, I don't believe that you can have a successful combination department if you actively create what ends up being, essentially, two classes of firefighter/officer. How can it really function? You're going to have to preface every officer's title with either "Volunteer" or "Career"? That sounds a bit silly.
I believe that for operational management and individual moral, you can't have a structure like this. I can imagine that you might have a situation where only career members can be officers, or vice versa with only volunteer officers. Or, all things being equal and you have all members holding equally weighted titles, the way it should be.
Now for the tricky part....
....you gotta have equal qualifications and this is where the waters get a little murky. You cannot call a guy who took Intro to Officer and Fire Officer 1 a Lieutenant and have a guy who went to FLIPS 5 days a week for 5 weeks Lieutenant as well. Career officers were promoted through competitive examination while volunteers are voted into office. This does call into question the validity of the member holding that rank as popularity can play an unfortunate roll. The manner in which a person is promoted is something that is simply not going to change, so we're going to have to move past that. Volunteer/Combination departments can bolster the validity of an elected volunteer officer by insuring that the candidate pool is very strong, has a certain number of years of experience and holds far more than the basic set of certifications from state fire classes. FLIPS is almost 200 hours long, so you have to put that in perspective and put together a list of prerequisites that can, at least, somewhat compare. The smart, dedicated volunteers (and I know a bunch) have already or will put in the time. You just have to hope you have enough of them.

This is a tough topic and one that's surely going to raise the collective blood pressure. However, that said, I don't believe that you can have a successful combination department if you actively create what ends up being, essentially, two classes of firefighter/officer. How can it really function? You're going to have to preface every officer's title with either "Volunteer" or "Career"? That sounds a bit silly.
I believe that for operational management and individual moral, you can't have a structure like this. I can imagine that you might have a situation where only career members can be officers, or vice versa with only volunteer officers. Or, all things being equal and you have all members holding equally weighted titles, the way it should be.
Now for the tricky part....
....you gotta have equal qualifications and this is where the waters get a little murky. You cannot call a guy who took Intro to Officer and Fire Officer 1 a Lieutenant and have a guy who went to FLIPS 5 days a week for 5 weeks Lieutenant as well. Career officers were promoted through competitive examination while volunteers are voted into office. This does call into question the validity of the member holding that rank as popularity can play an unfortunate roll. The manner in which a person is promoted is something that is simply not going to change, so we're going to have to move past that. Volunteer/Combination departments can bolster the validity of an elected volunteer officer by insuring that the candidate pool is very strong, has a certain number of years of experience and holds far more than the basic set of certifications from state fire classes. FLIPS is almost 200 hours long, so you have to put that in perspective and put together a list of prerequisites that can, at least, somewhat compare. The smart, dedicated volunteers (and I know a bunch) have already or will put in the time. You just have to hope you have enough of them.

Sure! Whether tax money pays for it in a municipal budget or from the insurance tax, what's the difference. It may not stack up against firefighting equipment, but a dept. needs a dress uniform. I think it just falls under the category of professionalism for P.R., fire prevention education and official functions from funerals to inspections and such. Now, members wearing that uniform correctly.....that's something that has to be policed!

Take a look and sign the petition to fight to keep standards in FDNY. Merit Matters.com is a sight set up by Deputy Chief Paul Mannix of the FDNY to make all aware how the NY City gov't should fight a recent ruling by a judge to hire those who simply did not make the grade! Why do some feel that lowering standards in the FD think its ok? Are standards lowered to be a lawyer,Doctor,pilot? Please visit the sight and support the fight!

The 1996 version of Rescues 1-5 were on HME chassis.

The new Seagrave is the first of it's kind for us. That goes for both Tower Ladders and Engines. It is vastly different than the previous models. When you have a fleet of 200+ standard engines and 150+ standard trucks, you need to have one of each for training. Only stands to reason. Those Bureau of Training rigs will serve the academy for a decade and beyond, hardly wasted money. The order was for 70 engines and the BOT rig was the 71st. Engines, for us, cost about $600,000 (if someone knows the correct figure, correct me!). That price is inclusive of extra parts and the warranty. For an apparatus purchase in the neighborhood of 40 million dollars...whats another few hundred grand.
Another thing.....that investment will last 10 years. Spread 40 million out over that decade and you only get 4 million a year. That's a pretty small percentage of a budget that closes in on 2 billion annually.

The new Seagrave is the first of it's kind for us. That goes for both Tower Ladders and Engines. It is vastly different than the previous models. When you have a fleet of 200+ standard engines and 150+ standard trucks, you need to have one of each for training. Only stands to reason. Those Bureau of Training rigs will serve the academy for a decade and beyond, hardly wasted money. The order was for 70 engines and the BOT rig was the 71st. Engines, for us, cost about $600,000 (if someone knows the correct figure, correct me!). That price is inclusive of extra parts and the warranty. For an apparatus purchase in the neighborhood of 40 million dollars...whats another few hundred grand.
Another thing.....that investment will last 10 years. Spread 40 million out over that decade and you only get 4 million a year. That's a pretty small percentage of a budget that closes in on 2 billion annually.

This has become quite an interesting topic, so I decided to get a little edumucated about KJ;
So, as of 2006, KJ had 20,071 people crammed into 1.1 square miles. To me, that is incredible.
I could go on and on with the quotes from the article sited. It is understood that our nation is founded upon the principle of seperation of church and state, or government. With regard to fire services, it is also understood (to me at least) that this is a function of government; NOT church.
So here's where the lines become blurry, as the cultural aspects of KJ come into conflict with the established norms of delivery of emergency services. Look, they went to court because they didn't want their boys riding a bus with a woman driving it. Can you imagine the reaction if a KJ resident is involved in a PIAA and the responding EMS unit shows up with two women; maybe one of which has a facial piercing or a tatoo?
IMO, big time conflicting issues will be ongoing with KJ and the surrounding communities, maybe forever. A few of the posters here have said that KJFD has been helpful, others have said they are wrecklessly responding outside their jurisdiction because according to their cultural values, they do not want other types of people other than their own, handling potential victims of emergencies.
The only solution I see would be big time open lines of communication, and established protocols for when a KJ resident is in need of fire or ems services beyond their 1.1 square miles. The protocol KJ has apparently established for itself is that speed-dial to their own people in an emergency. That, to me is absolutely not the real solution, and a recipe for potential disaster at some point.
Since it is apparent that they seek isolation from the "outside" world, when they are within that "outside" world, beyond their 1.1 square miles of crushing population, their obligation should be to CONFORM to their surrounding communities' protocols. Eventually, this will be another court issue I imagine.
To me, ASSIMILATION is also a part of AMERICAN culture. To not want to assimilate, due to religious reasons is THE reason these problems with emergency services exist up in that neck of the woods. How to solve it?
Well, we certainly want religious tolerance, another tenant of our cultural foundation. But KJ residents should also understand, that they have an obligation to AMERICA, as well as their god. If they are unmovable nor open to any type of negotiation and compromise, it is not "being helpful" as some here have stated.
I have to say, I wouldn't want to be up there trying to figure this whole thing out. Problems, problems. But then again, this is the USA, and problems are the least of out worries. Is that an oxymoron or a Yogi'ism?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiryas_Joel,_New_York

A civil service hiring exam is given every 4 years. Of the total applicant pool, you need to be in the top 5-10% to achieve a position. In these uncertain times, it's not a good thing to bank on. By all means, study, train and try hard, but have something to fall back on.

Yonkers está tendo alguns problemas financeiros direito agora irmão. Talvez não seja o momento mais fácil para você tentar obter o trabalho lá. Boa sorte para você no seu endevours.

Yikes....a tiller AND a quint...
...seems like someone set out to win the most over complicated apparatus award. At some point, IMHO, we're trying to do too much with one vehicle. We're getting so complex that we get to a point where we have something that does everything, but nothing well. It carries tons of equipment, but it's too big to manage, ect. ect. There are other examples for sure. Tillers are lousy for the volunteer service, as it's difficult enough to get drivers. Now we need two? Not a good plan. Tractor trailers are too big for most urban environments. They're just too ungainly to navigate during emergency response. A tractor trailer unit might make sense for a special unit designed for limited responses or prolonged operations, but thats it. An example of another approach would be Hazmat 1 in NYC. They simply use two rigs for a response.
Lastly, Quints suck. They are little more than a band-aide that allows politicians to give us fewer pieces of equipment and short change us on manpower. They fall into the over-complicated catagory. Is it an engine? Is it a truck? From the firefighters perspective, what is your job a particular fire? From a management perspective, "who's doing what?" When you have engines and trucks coming in, the chief knows what is happening because everyone's positions are clearly defined. Most bread and butter jobs are well underway before the chief even arrives.
Okay....rant over.

Yikes....a tiller AND a quint...
...seems like someone set out to win the most over complicated apparatus award. At some point, IMHO, we're trying to do too much with one vehicle. We're getting so complex that we get to a point where we have something that does everything, but nothing well. It carries tons of equipment, but it's too big to manage, ect. ect. There are other examples for sure. Tillers are lousy for the volunteer service, as it's difficult enough to get drivers. Now we need two? Not a good plan. Tractor trailers are too big for most urban environments. They're just too ungainly to navigate during emergency response. A tractor trailer unit might make sense for a special unit designed for limited responses or prolonged operations, but thats it. An example of another approach would be Hazmat 1 in NYC. They simply use two rigs for a response.
Lastly, Quints suck. They are little more than a band-aide that allows politicians to give us fewer pieces of equipment and short change us on manpower. They fall into the over-complicated catagory. Is it an engine? Is it a truck? From the firefighters perspective, what is your job a particular fire? From a management perspective, "who's doing what?" When you have engines and trucks coming in, the chief knows what is happening because everyone's positions are clearly defined. Most bread and butter jobs are well underway before the chief even arrives.
Okay....rant over.

I appreciate your concern, and your obvious pride in being an AMerican and a member of emergency services. However, in my opinion a lot of what you have written is mere speculation and it is much too early to do that with the limited info we have at this time. To me, this seems like a very amateurish attempt and at this point who knows who tried to pull it off and what their intentions were?
In my opinion the individuals responsible for this incident will only be succesful if we let it have any effect on our daily lives or preoccupy our thoughts. Yes, we should pay attention to what happened and be vigilant and prepare ourselves for what may happen, but put it all in proper context, don't speculate, and don't make it out to be any worse than it actually was.

This is an issue that should be examined closely. This could very nearly have been a tremendous disaster. No one can tell exactly how many people would have been killed had this bomb functioned properly and the psychological ramifications would be extensive, bringing a fear that lurks in the back of our minds to the surface very violently. The police officer who responded to the vehicle was peering through the windows before realizing what was contained within. That's a little closer to a bomb than I can imagine most of us ever wanting to be. Supposedly did a great job at moving people away and bringing the necessary NYPD Bomb Squad and FDNY units.
As terrible a reality as it is, this is something that we, as emergency responders, need to be very aware of today. Furthermore, there has been some scuttle about the intended method of detonation and whether or not the smoke was intentional as a device to lure responders. If there is any validity to that theory, imagine the process. Device creates smoke, brings responders and then the primary device detonates. What a terrible event....
The reality is, there are very sick people who come up with intricate ways to kill lots of people and specific people. Be safe and cautious and try not to let ever present complacency effect your level of preparedness.

This is an issue that should be examined closely. This could very nearly have been a tremendous disaster. No one can tell exactly how many people would have been killed had this bomb functioned properly and the psychological ramifications would be extensive, bringing a fear that lurks in the back of our minds to the surface very violently. The police officer who responded to the vehicle was peering through the windows before realizing what was contained within. That's a little closer to a bomb than I can imagine most of us ever wanting to be. Supposedly did a great job at moving people away and bringing the necessary NYPD Bomb Squad and FDNY units.
As terrible a reality as it is, this is something that we, as emergency responders, need to be very aware of today. Furthermore, there has been some scuttle about the intended method of detonation and whether or not the smoke was intentional as a device to lure responders. If there is any validity to that theory, imagine the process. Device creates smoke, brings responders and then the primary device detonates. What a terrible event....
The reality is, there are very sick people who come up with intricate ways to kill lots of people and specific people. Be safe and cautious and try not to let ever present complacency effect your level of preparedness.

This is an issue that should be examined closely. This could very nearly have been a tremendous disaster. No one can tell exactly how many people would have been killed had this bomb functioned properly and the psychological ramifications would be extensive, bringing a fear that lurks in the back of our minds to the surface very violently. The police officer who responded to the vehicle was peering through the windows before realizing what was contained within. That's a little closer to a bomb than I can imagine most of us ever wanting to be. Supposedly did a great job at moving people away and bringing the necessary NYPD Bomb Squad and FDNY units.
As terrible a reality as it is, this is something that we, as emergency responders, need to be very aware of today. Furthermore, there has been some scuttle about the intended method of detonation and whether or not the smoke was intentional as a device to lure responders. If there is any validity to that theory, imagine the process. Device creates smoke, brings responders and then the primary device detonates. What a terrible event....
The reality is, there are very sick people who come up with intricate ways to kill lots of people and specific people. Be safe and cautious and try not to let ever present complacency effect your level of preparedness.

This is an issue that should be examined closely. This could very nearly have been a tremendous disaster. No one can tell exactly how many people would have been killed had this bomb functioned properly and the psychological ramifications would be extensive, bringing a fear that lurks in the back of our minds to the surface very violently. The police officer who responded to the vehicle was peering through the windows before realizing what was contained within. That's a little closer to a bomb than I can imagine most of us ever wanting to be. Supposedly did a great job at moving people away and bringing the necessary NYPD Bomb Squad and FDNY units.
As terrible a reality as it is, this is something that we, as emergency responders, need to be very aware of today. Furthermore, there has been some scuttle about the intended method of detonation and whether or not the smoke was intentional as a device to lure responders. If there is any validity to that theory, imagine the process. Device creates smoke, brings responders and then the primary device detonates. What a terrible event....
The reality is, there are very sick people who come up with intricate ways to kill lots of people and specific people. Be safe and cautious and try not to let ever present complacency effect your level of preparedness.

This is an issue that should be examined closely. This could very nearly have been a tremendous disaster. No one can tell exactly how many people would have been killed had this bomb functioned properly and the psychological ramifications would be extensive, bringing a fear that lurks in the back of our minds to the surface very violently. The police officer who responded to the vehicle was peering through the windows before realizing what was contained within. That's a little closer to a bomb than I can imagine most of us ever wanting to be. Supposedly did a great job at moving people away and bringing the necessary NYPD Bomb Squad and FDNY units.
As terrible a reality as it is, this is something that we, as emergency responders, need to be very aware of today. Furthermore, there has been some scuttle about the intended method of detonation and whether or not the smoke was intentional as a device to lure responders. If there is any validity to that theory, imagine the process. Device creates smoke, brings responders and then the primary device detonates. What a terrible event....
The reality is, there are very sick people who come up with intricate ways to kill lots of people and specific people. Be safe and cautious and try not to let ever present complacency effect your level of preparedness.

This is an issue that should be examined closely. This could very nearly have been a tremendous disaster. No one can tell exactly how many people would have been killed had this bomb functioned properly and the psychological ramifications would be extensive, bringing a fear that lurks in the back of our minds to the surface very violently. The police officer who responded to the vehicle was peering through the windows before realizing what was contained within. That's a little closer to a bomb than I can imagine most of us ever wanting to be. Supposedly did a great job at moving people away and bringing the necessary NYPD Bomb Squad and FDNY units.
As terrible a reality as it is, this is something that we, as emergency responders, need to be very aware of today. Furthermore, there has been some scuttle about the intended method of detonation and whether or not the smoke was intentional as a device to lure responders. If there is any validity to that theory, imagine the process. Device creates smoke, brings responders and then the primary device detonates. What a terrible event....
The reality is, there are very sick people who come up with intricate ways to kill lots of people and specific people. Be safe and cautious and try not to let ever present complacency effect your level of preparedness.

This is an issue that should be examined closely. This could very nearly have been a tremendous disaster. No one can tell exactly how many people would have been killed had this bomb functioned properly and the psychological ramifications would be extensive, bringing a fear that lurks in the back of our minds to the surface very violently. The police officer who responded to the vehicle was peering through the windows before realizing what was contained within. That's a little closer to a bomb than I can imagine most of us ever wanting to be. Supposedly did a great job at moving people away and bringing the necessary NYPD Bomb Squad and FDNY units.
As terrible a reality as it is, this is something that we, as emergency responders, need to be very aware of today. Furthermore, there has been some scuttle about the intended method of detonation and whether or not the smoke was intentional as a device to lure responders. If there is any validity to that theory, imagine the process. Device creates smoke, brings responders and then the primary device detonates. What a terrible event....
The reality is, there are very sick people who come up with intricate ways to kill lots of people and specific people. Be safe and cautious and try not to let ever present complacency effect your level of preparedness.

Take a look at the line above my name that refers to lime yellow fire engines. I didn't put it there. Apparently someone hacked into my profile and put it there. I noticed it the other day and I figured the culprit would fess up. One day, the perpetrator will admit it was him. People who do things like this can't keep it secret because they have to have the credit fot it.
Lime yellow is kind of an inside joke in central Westchester, so I will briefly explain that I had a Chief for 34 years that firmly believed in the color yellow based on the Solomon study on visibility. I believed that red is a color that is universally recognized for fire engines. For 34 years we agreed to disagree (but the Chief gets the color he wants), and remained both coworkers and friends for all that time.
Back to "what's funny."
Was the title I was given funny? YES
Was it harmless? YES
Am I mad at the hacker ? NO (AS long as he doesn't mess with important stuff)
Will I retaliate? YES Once I find him, I am duty bound as a Fireman to retaliate
Are my feelings hurt? Hell no...I'm a Fireman
Wait! There's a lesson in this whole prank thing:
Today, in our politically correct fire service, a prank like this would potentially warrant a complaint to the Chief, a letter to the FCC, EMT-Bravo Board, a written reprimand, an EEOC complaint,and more.
In the old days, we laughed and moved on to construct the next prank. I truly believe that I worked with some of the funniest men on the face of the earth. Anyone and anything was fair game as long as it did no damage. Well, except for the guy that stuck a lit firecracker in a homemade peach pie because the crust was hard. That caused a two-hour all-hands cleanup, and the "pie man" and the "pyrotechnic expert" didn't talk for a week.
So what happened to my fire service that caused us to lose our sense of humor and our crust? Perhaps it is a good item for discussion.

Very little changes with a tiller vs. a rear mount. The tillerman is the O/V, so once on the scene of a job, he goes to work as the O/V would in any company. The chauffeur will set up the aerial the same way he would in a rear mount. There's really not much too it. Hit the parking break, put down both tormentors and raise the stick. I've only worked in a tiller a handful of times as a detail, but for operating purpose (other than driving) they act the same as a rearmount. Once the ladder is in position it's available for the roofman to take up, if he hasn't found an adjoining building that is. The chauffeur is also now free to assist with ground ladders in the front of the building, or assist the O/V if he's made it to the rear. The chauffeur becomes the utility man, just as he would in any other stick. Now, TL's are a whole different animal...

The only thing I can see from reading this string of posts is that a regional (perhaps a couple of regional) fire dept's is something that Westchester Co. is SCREAMING FOR! It needed it decades ago. It needed it when I volunteered in Westchester and it needs it now more than ever! There are too many wasted or under utilized resources, too many under utilized people. Certainly there are people in every department who want to and COULD respond more often. Put them to better use and enter a system without so many lines and boundaries such. Some departments do very well with turning out manpower and some REALLY don't. The larger the pool of responders you draw from, the better. No one is expecting a guy to run off the golf course and answer a ringing alarm, actually, I wouldn't expect a guy to run for a working fire if he was putting on the 13th hole, or whatever. People have lives and they're going to be unavailable sometimes. That's the breaks, so expand, regionalize and have a more consistent turn-out.
There's more. There should be standardized responses that are arranged with the dispatch agency and are consistent county wide (larger more self sustaining dept's aside). I see things written in the paper, or on this web-site, that don't seem to have any REAL consistent meaning. What's a 2nd Alarm bring you? How about a 3rd and so on? When the word is given that you have a working fire (10-75 means nothing, according to anything I can find. It's 10-21 and 10-22) what will that bring to your scene? You should be able to transmit that you have a fire and without another word, certain resources should be sent by the dispatcher. You should DEFINITELY have a FAST unit right away. Do you get an extra engine, truck or both? Maybe more? I don't know the specifics, but those at the top should and it should be uniform for the area.

Make my way to Brooklyn this morning, came upon the Fire Scene Unit and the Fire Family Transport Unit 17
besides the couple of Engine Companies.