61MACKBR1

Barry - Will NRFD be using the former Engine 22 (2004 American LaFrance/RD Murray 1500/500) as the replacement for the current Spare Engine 17 (1998 Spartan/RD Murray 1500/500). And, if so, would NRFD just simply sell the 1998 Spartan/RD Murray off at auction?

In 1975, Yonkers FD had a 405 uniform force that was running 13 engine companies, 7 truck companies, and 1 rescue company

In 2015, Yonkers FD had a 459 uniform force that was running 11 engine companies (including Squad 11), 6 truck companies [ladders] and 1 rescue company

Back in 1975, Yonkers FD was running 13 engine companies, 7 truck companies, and 1 rescue company with a uniform force of 405 men.

In 2015, Yonkers FD is running 10 Engine Companies, 1 Squad Company, 6 Ladder (Truck Company) and 1 rescue company. But I don't have access to the uniform force number. Maybe someone from within YFD can provide the current number.

Instead of comparing apparatus, how about we compare the personnel? That's the real issue here. Is the personnel complement in Yonkers higher or lower than in 1975? Does the comparison with 1975 even matter?

Who complies with NFPA 1710 and who doesn't?

Back in 1975, Yonkers FD was running 13 engine companies, 7 truck companies, and 1 rescue company with a uniform force of 405 men.

In 2015, Yonkers FD is running 10 Engine Companies, 1 Squad Company, 6 Ladder (Truck Company) and 1 rescue company. But I don't have access to the uniform force number. Maybe someone from within YFD can provide the current number.

Instead of comparing apparatus, how about we compare the personnel? That's the real issue here. Is the personnel complement in Yonkers higher or lower than in 1975? Does the comparison with 1975 even matter?

Who complies with NFPA 1710 and who doesn't?

Back in 1975, Yonkers FD was running 13 engine companies, 7 truck companies, and 1 rescue company with a uniform force of 405 men.

In 2015, Yonkers FD is running 10 Engine Companies, 1 Squad Company, 6 Ladder (Truck Company) and 1 rescue company. But I don't have access to the uniform force number. Maybe someone from within YFD can provide the current number.

OK Folks, here is the bottom line in regards to both Mount Vernon and Yonkers:

As Property Taxes have risen greatly in 40 years, Fire Protection in both cities has drastically been cut. Here is a look (You tell us what Department has taken more of a hit over 40 years. Maybe Barry McGoey should be barking at Mayor Spano just as hard as he is barking at Mayor Davis)

Mount Vernon Fire Department 1975 vs, 2015

Front Line Apparatus:

1975 - 2015

Engine Company 1 - Decommissioned - Spare Engine Company 1

Engine Company 2 - Engine Company 2

Engine Company 3 - Engine Company 3

Engine Company 4 - Engine Company 4

Engine Company 5 - Engine Company 5

Engine Company 6 - Engine Company 6

Snorkel 1 - Tower Ladder 1

Truck Company 2 - Ladder 2

Truck Company 3 - Ladder 3

Truck Company 4 - Decommissioned - Spare Ladder 4

Rescue 1 - Rescue 1

LOSS IN FRONT LINE RIGS - 1 Engine Company and 1 Truck Company

Reserve Rigs:

Foam 1 - Decommissioned

Yonkers Fire Department

1975 - 2015

Engine Company 1 - Decommissioned

Engine Company 2 - Decommissioned

Engine Company 3 - Engine Company 303

Engine Company 4 - Engine Company 304

Engine Company 6 - Engine Company 306

Engine Company 7 - Engine Company 307

Engine Company 8 - Engine Company 308

Engine Company 9 - Engine Company 309

Engine Company 10 - Engine Company 310

Engine Company 11 - Squad 11

Engine Company 12 - Engine Company 312

Engine Company 13 - Engine Company 313

Engine Company 14 - Engine Company 314

Tower Ladder 1 - Tower Ladder 71

Truck 2 - Ladder 72

Truck 3 - Ladder 73

Truck 4 - Ladder 74

Truck 5 - Tower Ladder 75

Truck 6 - Decommissioned

Truck 7 - Ladder 70

Rescue 1 - Rescue 1

LOSS IN FRONT LINE RIGS - 2 Engine Companies and 1 Truck Company

in the past 7 years we have purchased 6 rigs from Pierce (E25), SVI (R-4), Smeal(E21-23), & Crimson(L12). Their were 4 bids involved.

We put out a performance spec that quality manufacturers can all meet. We purchase what is determined to be the best value and closest to the specifications. This has not always been the lowest bidder.

Thanks Barry - I knew that you would make everything much clearer. NRFD has for sure, set the pace recently, in ordering and putting into service, fire apparatus that both meet the stringent NRFD specifications as well as getting the "Most Bang For Your Buck" (of course, the American LaFrance rigs being put to the side ).

Of course, all municipalities go out to "Bid" (and we all know how that process works ) and the bid normally is awarded to the Lowest Bidder (provided that more than 1 manufacturer bids on a specific bid request). With New Rochelle, I would suspect that heavy emphasis would be placed on a manufacturer who has had recent success of providing the city with Fire Apparatus, whose "In Service Up-Time" is well above the average (which would make obtaining Parts and keeping the rigs in service much easier). Thus, I would "suspect" (and I certainly might be wrong) that the same manufacturer that has recently supplied New Rochelle with Engine Company 21, 22, 23, and 25 (Spartan/Smeal) would be the vendor of choice (lowest bid dependent, of course)

How come the TL is not on an Ultra cab like the engines?

Good Question. One would have thought that the Cab would have been a Ferrara Ultra Cab, like they are building for YFD Engine's 303 and 313. However, the New Tower Ladder 71 is a Ferrara Inferno Cab. Maybe someone from within YFD can let everyone know on this one? (See YFD New Tower Ladder 71 Ferrara Inferno below on left and next to it, on the right, is one of the 2 New YFD Ferrara Ultra Pumpers)

I call Bull S**T

It is defined, Lets start with OSHA 2in 2ot requires 4 interior plus IC & pump operator to go in and save property. If you can not do this 100% of the calls you are sub standard. I do not care how "happy" the town is.

Next its defined by NFPA standard 1710 which requires career depts. to but an engine with 3/1 on scene in 4 minutes 90% of the time and the remainder of the 1st alarm (min of 16ff) in 8 minutes 90% of the time. And for those that want to start the we don't need to follow the 1710 standard because we are not career. The NYS Insurance commissioner last year approved the new ISO standard which measures ALL departments based on 1710. So the "town" is happy and it does not meet this? If more than 10 people in the entire town knows about it I'd be stunned.

What about the ISO standard that requires a minimum of 2 engines and 1 ladder or service company on all fire calls?

Again does anyone in town even know this?

How many citizens and politicians believe the fire departments web site that claims we have 200+ members? I must be safe look at how many they have.....

How many happy citizens listen to 60 control tone out: "any available members on the 3rd dispatch" ?

Most are happy because they either do not think they will ever need it or because they believe the FD is capable of doing a good job.

What about the ISO

You tell them Barry (these Towns and Villages haven't a clue). It will take just one major lawsuit that some hot shot lawyer will come in and quote ISO and NFPA Standards, and that Town or Village will be paying out BIG TIME, for things to change. Until then, keeping the "Good Old Boys' club separate from what is "RIGHT" will continue to go on (See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil)

As I said on this site some 5 years ago, "This is just the beginning of consolidation of services" (And the "Home Rule: in NYS will end up being abolished by the politicians, who will bow to the wishes of the tax payers)

Yes but in many other places that also have the same standards from one place to another.

Standards for response,

Standards for equipment

Standards for personnel

Standards for training.

You will never see a "system" here until everyone agrees to follow similar rules.

Barry - You continue to "Tell It Like It Is" (Until people who have the "Power To Initiate Change" put laws in place within New York State to force "Standardization" in Response, Personnel, and especially "TRAINING !!!" (for both the Career and Volunteer Firefighters) we will never have a common ground to work off of throughout Westchester County

Right, no loca/regional tax dollars. Just federal tax dollars. So we paid somewhat less for something that may be used once in a decade vs. making minor modifications so it could be used more frequently to support our already strained EMS system.

Any where do you suppose the Federal Dollars to fund such grants come from? (They just don't say "print some money for this grant" !). It comes from taxpayer dollars (yours and mine). So the statement that non local or regional tax dollars were used, really doesn't make any sense, as "TAX DOLLARS" were used to fund the grant. And who pays into these "Tax Dollars"? You, I and everyone else. So we all should have a say into how our tax dollars are spent and used and to ensure that it is being used "Wisely and Effectively" and not used to be wasted on a piece of apparatus that just sits in a Garage in Valhalla. I say "Maximize" its potential use (As an Mass Casualty Unit Ambulance and Transportation Unit and not just as a unit to Mass Transport Nursing Home Patients)

From the start it was stated that the METU was not to be used for any purpose other than evacuating a nursing home or hospital. So your statement can't be correct since that is the original intent. You seem very upset about this situation and "wasted tax dollars" but your location is listed as Rhode Island so what difference to you does it make if Westchester County's METU went?

There appears to be no actual plan for the unit (that I am aware of). I know if needed the members of the Technical Rescue Team are supposed to drive it and the facilities personnel would ride to handle medical care on board (Nurses, doctors etc.) I was hoping the other night would be a situation for the Commissioner to special call this resource, especially since the Tech Rescue team had members in/responding to the building for other special equipment.

Maybe the County needs to revisit the intent of the County METU unit, especially given this recent incident? PS - I still have tax paying family residing in Westchester County, thus my interest and concern.

Hate to break it to you, but an online chat room is not the appropriate place to issues press releases regarding tax monies, government purchased equipment, and their usage. Face to face meetings where statements can be delivered and Q&A can be handled in a more appropriate and prudent manor are ideal. You're never going to get a PIO approved statement on here regarding anything, because, no pun intended, it is not the appropriate forum to do so.

Do you really think that the County, in a public forum, is going to address such a question, where they don't have an appropriate answer? (This is EXACTLY WHY people are leaving EMTBravo.net, because they are afraid of the reprocussions that might arise from them making their opinions known on this web site). Thus, your response clearly answers the other topic on this site of "What has happened to this site" !!!

Still, no one has responded to why the County Department of Emergency Services procured a METU unit, to which is "apparently" never used for what it was intended to be used for ???? Tax Payer Dollars wasted again !

I absolutely agree that "if" the County of Westchester - Department of Emergency Services, has in its possession a METU apparatus, housed at the DES Facility on the Grasslands Campus, then that unit should be designated as the "Primary" METU Unit dispatched for all "Central Westchester County Mass Casualty Incidents" manned with personnel trained to handle and support such requirements (be it trained personnel from the County DES and/or Trained Emergency Service Personnel from Westchester County Medical Center). The Yonkers PD METU should be used for all Southern Westcheter Mass Casualty Incidents. While it was great to see how fast the Yonkers PD METU unit got to the scene/command post in Valhalla last evening (although primarily used for Fire Fighter and Emergency Worker Injuries, given that all of the victims had already been transported directly to WCMC).

It would be, in my opinion, suffice to say, that this should be a "Lessons Learned" event and that measures should be taken immediately to correct what should be corrected, to avoid something tragic from happening in the future.

(As Captain Barry said in an earlier post, its sad that the County's METU Rig is essentially down to supporting nursing homes)

METU is the acronym for “Medical Evacuation Transportation Unit”. It was designed specifically “to assist in the evacuation and relocation of stable individuals confined to a hospital, nursing home or assisted living facility during an emergency or catastrophic event.” It has the capacity to safely transport from one medical facility to another. It is not a MERV, MCI unit, or big ambulance as it is not set-up or equipped to treat, only to transfer.

I believe that 18 METU units were purchased under the New York City Urban Area Security Initiative (UASI) and they are assigned to agencies in NJ (several cities/counties), Nassau County, Suffolk County, FDNY, City of Yonkers (YPD), as well as with WCDES here in Westchester.

Again, they are NOT units designed to treat or transport victims from MCIs…their mission is very specific and it is to transfer and transport people between hospitals and/or other health care facilities.

I hope this answers your question and clarifies the continued confusion regarding the METU and its mandated function.

From a Jersey Buff Newark through a Homeland Security fund is getting a foam engine and a foam tower ladder

Now I know what a Foam Pumper Engine is but exactly what is a "Foam Tower Ladder"?

Technically, all a rescue pumper is, is a standard pumper with upper compartments that are double deep. Just because of the design, does not mean they will be used as one.

NRFD Engines 21, 23 & 25 are of this design and only E-25 carries additional equipment, beyond the standard engine. The new engine 22 is of the same design with some very minor modifications will be operated as a squad company.

Thanks Barry for the Clarification

Let's keep in mind that production delays sometimes are beyond the manufacturers controls and are due to the "just in time" supply chain issues that most manufacturers go by.............they rely on the engine vendor, transmission vendor, pump vendor, aerial vendor, and other component vendors to get that product to the assembly (stations) right when it needs to be there. If there's a delay in getting the Allison transmission, for example, that's going to slow down the rig build since a lot of work can't start until that transmission is in place.

Also, although the bid has been awarded, sometimes funded can be a whole separate issue. Pre-construction meetings at the factory can go awry, when the manufacturer and customer start disagreeing on things and things have to go back to the drawing board.

Or maybe it's simply that Yonkers doesn't want to be showcased on Ferrara's "In Production" page and actually is in production....

If someone credible and in the know wants to feed me the correct information, I will post it here anonymously.

Can anyone answer this question. I thought that the Bid awarded to Ferrara was to replace Engine 303 and Engine 313 (as well as to replace Tower Ladder 71). It appears from the latest "In Production" section on Ferrara's Web Site that they are producing a "Rescue Pumper" for Yonkers. Is YFD changed up their request and are now replacing Squad 11? (Doesn't seem to make sense, but you never know). Maybe someone in the know from within YFD can update us all

Here is a photo (from a long time ago) of the Con Ed Transformer Fire (up alongside Tuckahoe Road/Ridge Hill Complex) in Yonkers, New York, where YFD used the Foam Unit as part of its attack of the fire

Yonkers FD has its Foam Unit housed at Station 13 and is run as part of YFD's Special Operations Department, supported by the crew of Engine 313 and Ladder 73. YFD has used this apparatus on a few occasions over the years.

Mount Vernon FD's Foam Unit, I believe, hasn't existed in years. When it was "last in service" FDMV was running it, using a converted 1967 Mack C Rig (Former Engine 6), until FDMV disbanded its Foam Unit. There was 1 attempt of reviving the FDMV Foam Rig, when they obtained the Old Westchester County Airport Fire Rig (See Photo), but sadly, that rig sat in the back of Station 2, rusting, for a number of years (I don't think it is still back there), rather than fixing it back up and having it as their Foam Unit (You would think, with all of the businesses down in the Old "Oil City" area of Mount Vernon, there would be a need for such a rig.

Surprised that White Plains FD gave their Foam Unit back to the County DES. (Maybe someone in the know can clarify why White Plains FD gave it back to the County?)

570 Commerce Street, Thornwood, New York

Units Responding:

Thornwood FD: Engine 88, Engine 89, Rescue 75, Tower Ladder 1,

Hawthorne FD: Engine 154, Engine 155, Ladder 56, Tower Ladder 12

Valhalla FD: Engine 82, Rescue 9

Yonkers FD: Engine 313, Ladder 73, Battalion 2, Foam Unit

Westchester County Hazmat Team

http://www.lohud.com/story/news/local/westchester/2015/01/04/con-edison-substation-fire-hawthorne/21256245/

Date: 1/1/2015
Time:02:00:00
Location:Inverness Road
District:Yonkers, New York
Units: Unknown (If anyone knows the complete assignments, as called out, for this 3 Alarm Fire, please post them. Thank you.

Description: A house under construction went up in flames overnight in Yonkers, and the intensity of the flames threatened a group home next door. Fire officials say the blaze broke out at around 2 a.m. at a house on Inverness Road, and they arrived to find flames shooting from the roof. Crews say they couldn't initially get close to the house because of the fire's intensity.They began to become more concerned as embers from the fire began to fly over the two homes on either side. One of them, a group home for developmentally disabled people, had to be evacuated. Assemblywoman Shelly Mayer, who happens to live across the street, stepped in and helped get six residents and two employees to safety. “We have a very successful group home across from my house for many, many years, and the firefighters brought the residents out and now they are inside our house and doing well,” says Mayer. Mayer later said that all the residents have since been let back into their home. The assistant fire chief says the group home has minimal damage, only suffering some melted siding. Over 65 firefighters eventually put out the flames. Six were injured in the three-alarm blaze. All were taken to the hospital but have since been released. Fire investigators are still on the scene. No cause has been released yet.

Could this have been the 1st Major Fire that 60 Control was in charge of dispatching Yonkers FD Units on? (Again, if anyone has the details of all 3 of the Alarm Dispatch Assignments and if, indeed, 60 Control was in charge of the dispatching of Yonkers Units for this 3 Alarm Fire, please post them here.

Best Wishes on your retirement. I am sure that the residents and businesses within the Village of Port Chester appreciated your service and dedication. God Bless and take care !

The ladder was awarded in March. The yonkers pumpers were awarded June of 2013. I have herd that Ferrara and Neville apparatus are difficult to deal with.

Well if bid was awarded for the Engine 303/313 replacements in June of 2013, even if stretching it to 12 months after the bid was awarded to start production, that would bring it to June of 2014. It is now December 2014, 18 months after the bid was awarded and production hasn't even started (not even talking about the March 2014 bid be awarded to the same manufacturer in March of 2014 for the replacement of TL 71 (now going on 9 months). Maybe Yonkers will see all 3 in 2017?

Wonder if Yonkers has any production delay penalties written in their contract (they would be smart if they did)?

I know. The scheduled final inspection date was suppose to be 12/7. the prepaint inspection is normally 6 weeks earlier, but was 10 days later.

So you tell me when it will be done...your guess is as good as mine

If you think that New Rochelle FD's delay in getting their New Engine 22 is bad, take a look at the delay that Yonkers FD is having getting their 2 New Engine 303 and 313 from Ferrara Fire Apparatus and Neville Apparatus !! (The YFD bid was awarded back in March and Ferrara hasn't even started production on the 2 new rigs yet)