Overuse of the airhorn

[JBE 328]

I understand you need to use an airhorn for obvious reasons when responding to an incident. Here's a situation that really bugged me.

I'm coming home from work the other day and heading through Forest Hills Queens. There's a 10-75 in the neighborhood, and since I don't know the area too well, I decide to just kinda meander across Queens Blvd and over to Yellowstone. I pull over just past Austin Street to let the Rescue pass me. As they clear the intersection, a little old lady cruises through the crosswalk on her motorized wheelchair.

Another unit (not to name names) stops to let the lady cross, but is LEANING ON THE AIRHORN THE ENTIRE TIME SHE IS GOING THROUGH THE CROSSWALK!!!!!! It's bad enough the old lady can't move quickly, and even worse that she's probably deaf, and that was before these guys blew the horn. Within 30 seconds of these guys passing through, the fire goes probably will hold. Is this really necessary?? I already had a dim view of this unit prior to this incident, but this cemented it. What would you guys do in a situation like this??

[res6cue 67]

I've heard guys lean on the airhorns so bad, the tank runs out of air, no lie. Personally, I prefer short, quick consecutive bursts when needed, and maybe just a bit longer duration while clearing an intersection. There are times, however, where no matter how pinned you keep the Q or how hard you yank on the airhorn lanyard, there is simply nowhere for the traffic (or old ladies) to go. You just create even more confusion and chaos by making so much damn noise and scaring the bejesus out of people who are already panic stricken by the site of a giant red firetruck coming barreling down on their little Honda Civic. Intelligent and moderate use of airhorns and sirens goes a long way.

[COMMANDCHIEF 4]

Hidden lesson: I bet she looks both ways before rolling through a crosswalk again.

[20y2 43]

Well, no one can ever say they didn't hear ya!

[JustSomeGuy 0]

I Agree that overuse of the airhorn is common in a lot of areas, but to the defense of that company Queens BLVD is an incredible dangerous raod to be driving on, 12 lanes total plus multiple part intersections, usual a couple of fatalities a year, it was one of the most dangerous roads in America, I understand your valid point, esp in westchester I get a headache listening to the whackers leaning on the air horn. Also generally my experience with the city guys is that they are so desensitized/deaf from the air horns. I know a few people who have legitimate hearing problems from the old roof mounted air horns.

[RWC130 594]

JBE,

I have seen that happen myself. Not very good PR to say the least.

What happened to Pedestrians Have The Right Of Way?

What happened to "Emergency Operation" Code 3, You must gain

control of the intersection and proceed when SAFE to do so?

I can relate to the need of getting to the scene of a fire, police, or medical emergency as fast as possible but GOOD JUDGMENT should be utilized.

Yeah, a little blast to say "Move Your @%%" is understandable

but I am sure the lady, obviously HANDICAPPED did not do it on purpose.

[ny10570 745]

I've had planty of people see me comming, stare me down and just give me the big f - you as they casually stroll across the intersection that ic ame up on lights and sirens blarring. Too bad there nothing you can do. in thislittle fight, they;ve won. Let your siren spn down give them an "I know you know what your doing" honk and wait for them to clear. By wailling on teh horn or siren you just look like an a**.

[JBE 328]

The unit was on Yellowstone Boulevard a number of blocks away from Queens Boulevard. I personally think it was the officer of this unit being an irresponisble @$$hole, but hey what do I know, I'm just a dispatcher.

[eckyphats 0]

depends on the situation, when im riding the seat i usully dont use the air horn at all, but if a car wont pull over or one stops in front of me and dousnt move, ill lay on that puppy until they either move and i run out of air.... thats followed by a few looks.....

Edited October 7, 2006 by eckyphats

[x635 4,066]

depends on the situation, when im riding the seat i usully dont use the air horn at all, but if a car wont pull over or one stops in front of me and dousnt move, ill lay on that puppy until they either move and i run out of air.... thats followed by a few looks and words....

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And this is proper and acceptable in your department? The driver or officer should have control of the airhorn, and that's it! It's not a toy, and pressing on it more won't make people move any faster, willl only scare and confuse them more.

[eckyphats 0]

And this is proper and acceptable in your department? The driver or officer should have control of the airhorn, and that's it! It's not a toy, and pressing on it more won't make people move any faster, willl only scare and confuse them more.

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Umm "The Seat" would be refferring to the officer seat, i went on a call one time and had a van that would not pull over for over 3 miles and there was no way around it, then once he did pull over the driver had the nerve to give me a dirty look! so ya know what, i had the right to give that person i dirty look right back! people are just stupid and it shows...

[efd1674 5]

No silent approach, you call we go, you light them we fight them.

Are all the horses out of the barn? TMFD E-51 (Jay) had the best Air Horns.

[Guest]

i agree with EFD1674 nicely put

[Bababoosky 24]

Its the same mentality as watching people hitting the up or down button for an elevator multiple times, like that is gonna make it come to them faster to their floor than anyone elses.

[sr71 1]

Its the same mentality as watching people hitting the up or down button for an elevator multiple times, like that is gonna make it come to them faster to their floor than anyone elses.

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i agree with you 100% the horns do move traffic when the Q and the electral arent working but people become become afraid and dont know what to do im learning to drive and pump as we speak and im being taught that when going through an intercetion 1. slow down

2. blow the horns a few times before you enter, a few times in it, and than when your on the other side.

3. these should be multiple short bursts

4. and slways procede with caution

5. people will not see you and some wont move untill your on there bumper

stay safe

sr71

[ja3kfd 34]

Well there is no right or wrong answer on this subject, it ia a moral issue, if it was your mother or grandmother in that motorized scooter what would you do?

what would it have taken for somebody to get off rig and move her along a lil faster? Air horns did not make scoter go faster, people power could have and maybe some people would be saying what a nice thing they did for her.This all comes down to training and respect for other human beings, we signed up to protect and serve, that is all part of it until some people grow up and see it that way this debate could go onforever.

Also remember we are responding to a situation we did not create, but we need to get there to control it but we need to get there in 1 piece, what would have happened if that lady stopped moving because she had a heart attack? that rig would have been tied up there waitng for EMS and then what did they gain?

[ny10570 745]

Alot of people have mentoned driver confussion as a problem. When you hammer on the air horn and keep your siren cranked people have a much harder time determining your direction of approach. You have to modulate your siren and break up the horn blasts. The ear picks up subtle changes in the sounds that allow you to figure out which direction the sound is comming from. When the sound stays constant its much harder to pick up any changes.

[ajsbear 11]

Well there is no right or wrong answer on this subject, it ia a moral issue, if it was your mother or grandmother in that motorized scooter what would you do?

what would it have taken for somebody to get off rig and move her along a lil faster? Air horns did not make scoter go faster, people power could have and maybe some people would be saying what a nice thing they did for her.This all comes down to training and respect for other human beings, we signed up to protect and serve, that is all part of it until some people grow up and see it that way this debate could go onforever.

Also remember we are responding to a situation we did not create, but we need to get there to control it but we need to get there in 1 piece, what would have happened if that lady stopped moving because she had a heart attack?  that rig would have been tied up there waitng for EMS and then what did they gain?

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Well said Jim, what would it have taken for someone to hop off, push the wheelchair along then hop back on as the rig proceeded through the intersection? We are here to aid the public right???

[JBE 328]

This was also a situation where the fire went PWH not too long after this unit cleared the intersection. I guess I also have a little bit of a personal issue with this unit, as I have had a number of confrontations with them over responses when I was assigned to Queens after I got promoted. I do appreciate the comments and enjoy these kind of discussions.

[Monty 35]

This was also a situation where the fire went PWH not too long after this unit cleared the intersection. I guess I also have a little bit of a personal issue with this unit, as I have had a number of confrontations with them over responses when I was assigned to Queens after I got promoted. I do appreciate the comments and enjoy these kind of discussions.

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I haven't seen anyone reply to your original question. Plenty of interesting opinions though

Obviously ther's no easy answer (otherwise you would have been shot down for asking ). Maybe if there's a decent BC that cares about PR he could be approached about the situation in general, and then maybe backed up with a specific example.

Don't know if there's a suggestion box somewhere or what would happen if you called 311 ....

Probably the biggest thing is to make sure it doesn't get too personal and eat away at you inside!

[lhfdvolly 21]

depends on the situation, when im riding the seat i usully dont use the air horn at all, but if a car wont pull over or one stops in front of me and dousnt move, ill lay on that puppy until they either move and i run out of air.... thats followed by a few looks.....

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Hmmmmmmmm.

[lhfdvolly 21]

Umm "The Seat" would be refferring to the officer seat, i went on a call one time and had a van that would not pull over for over 3 miles and there was no way around it, then once he did pull over the driver had the nerve to give me a dirty look! so ya know what, i had the right to give that person i dirty look right back! people are just stupid and it shows...

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If this happens again the proper procedure is to take note of the vehicle description and license number. When you return to quarters you notify the chief and also report the incident to the police department (make sure you have your facts straight). The main thing while riding the apparatus especially to a call is to stay level headed. It looks good for you and the department. I agree, people are stupid so you have to rise above them and be the better person. Don't forget, since you are riding the big red truck with lights and siren your actions will get noticed before anyone else’s.

[eckyphats 0]

EXCELLENT POINT

[mfc2257 464]

Disclosure: There are plenty of folks who read this board who I've been the chauffer for or have been mine when I'm in The Seat.... I am 0occasionally guilty just like every body else of taking my frustration out on the "Q" and the horns.... This being said.....

The simple answer to this is that it's a decision that needs to be made based on each situation.

On Queens Blvd, no matter how much noise the guy riding the seat made, that lady wasn't going to get across any faster. The result... A jerkoff move by the officer.

On the other hand, there are times where the situation requires emergency apparatus to drive in the wrong lane of travel, through an intersection with multiple approaches of oncomming traffic, etc. where a once up and down on the "Q" and a few toots on the air horns just aren't going to do it.

Use your brains... If you are making noise to protect your crew and the public then fine. If you are making noise for the sake of making noise... Well, eventually you'll get pinched.

[Jared1979 19]

over use of the air horns kills the air brakes and you dont want to mess up the whole air pressure on the truck. Use them when you have to get through an intersection that has a lot of traffic dont blast them at people ecspecially at old people because that is rude and it proves that the person who is operating the truck is a total moron and a show off

[mfc2257 464]

over use of the air horns kills the air brakes and you dont want to mess up the whole air pressure on the truck.  Use them when you have to get through an intersection that has a lot of traffic dont blast them at people ecspecially at old people because that is rude and it proves that the person who is operating the truck is a total moron and a show off

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Thats a myth.... Air horns have a seperate tank than the brakes. Hence the reason why if you are on the horns for too long blasting little old ladies off Queens Blvd, the air horns will run out of air, but the truck brakes are unaffected. There is no way that an emergency vehicle would ever be built with a device (airhorn) that could cause the brakes to fail due to human stupidity (hangin on the horns)

[Scottyk107 9]

I thought the tanks were connected in some way because ive heard drivers say that the break got soft after being on the horn

[dadbo46 50]

I thought the tanks were connected in some way because ive heard drivers say that the break got soft after being on the horn

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Old firehouse tale.

[res6cue 67]

NFPA standard requires that all air operated accessories, including the airhorns, stop working when the system air pressure drops to 80 psi or below. Also, most systems have multiple dry tanks, one of which is used for the accessories while the other(s) are dedicated solely to the service brakes.

[Remember585 815]

There's only a reserve air tank for the brakes in most rigs TODAY.

Our old L-44, a 1971 Maxim, shared air for the brakes and horns. One morning, we were going to the train station for a fire and the horns drained the system and the brakes locked up. The back end of the Truck locked up and started to swing in the other lane. Luckily, the driver was calm and had it under control in no time.

Nothing like "fish-tailing" from South Riverside on to Croton Pt. Ave. with oncoming traffic coming.