The Official EMTBravo Stance On Parades Threads

[EMTbravo 312]

As we are trying to breed a more professional atmosphere here, I find it concerning that some members are more concerned about parades then staffing a full engine with the proper amount of properly trained and capable firefighters at 12 noon on a weekday, oor getting an ambulance to a heart attack victim within 8 minutes.

Some members think that there's a balance between firefighting and EMS and social funtions- or "public relations" as some may call it but there really isn't, and myself and a I'm sure a few hundred have evidence to prove it.

]This forum is provided, for the most part, for Fire, Police, and EMS discussions, the sharing of ideas, information, and techniques, and the cultivation of professional relationships. Some off-topic discussions are permitted, but this won't be a place for discussion of social club type functions. This SAME debate and topic rages on year after year on this forum, and most members are sick of seeing it. Nothing constructive comes of it. Unless there's a specific parade issue, like those riding on top of apparatus traveling at highway speed, I don't want to see any bickering over parades or other social function. BUT, since they occur anyways you may feel free to post your parade in our events calendar section.

I realize parades are a part of a community, and FD participation within reason is neccesary, but let's keep it real- time spent training, familiarizing equipment, driver/operator training etc is time better spent then taking a majority of your active members and apparatus that your taxpayers paid for away from the community they are supposed to be protecting, polishing chrome, walking down a street, drinking heavily, and then competing for a "trophy". Who cares about who can put out a fire better- it's all about the shiny trucks and whos in step. Pat yourself on the back for that trophy that's going to be forgotten about and collect dust after that night- let's see how well those same parade members do competing in a firematic competion.

Personally, I spend over 50 hours a week (not right now though) at a firehouse. I NEVER find nothing to do- there's always reviewing chainsaw operations and finding stuff to cut, putting the aerial up, throwing ladders, tying knots, watching training magazines, driving around and preplanning, building familiarizations, etc etc. Plus PT, apparatus checks, firehouse maintence, etc there's plenty to keep busy firematically.

As an apparatus enthusiast, I love parades. Some people need to get their priorities straight. As parade season is about to begin, that's the EMTBravo stance on the usual numerous parade threads.

P.S. As select forum members have been accusing me of being a "pro-career" prick, I just want to say this. As administrator of this forum, I am neutra- especially having been on both sides. But I will in the next few months be guiding this forum away from the nonsense topics (excluding The Lounge, our off-topic forum), to try and make way for those topics that we all learn from, etc. I'm sure I'm not the only one sick of the Parade or Blue Light threads.

Let me put it this way so it's perfectly clear to those who are having trouble interpetting the above.....less useless repetetive "whacker" type threads and more informative and quality threads that benefit us...and the public we serve. .

If you are going to reply, please note this issue is not up for debate. Firefighting, Police, and EMS is a profession. This board is here to enhance that profession.

[helicopper 1,050]

Some people need to get their priorities straight.

If you are going to reply, please note this issue is not up for debate. Firefighting, Police, and EMS is a profession. This board is here to enhance that profession.

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That's for sure - as so many have said, a topic on lights and sirens will generate dozens of responses but a post on quality of care or best way to approach a firefighting situation often draw crickets!

You want to be part of a profession? Then be professional!

I like the tag line that someone on here uses...

Amateurs practice until they can get it right - professionals practice until they can't get it wrong! That's what we should all be aiming for!

[tjd1012 5]

so can i assume we wont see pictures of all the parades you go to?

[Oswegowind 17]

You know what, Seth was making a point about something that is very important. Cut the bullshit. Pictures are pictures, parades can be enjoyable, but with every thing in life their is responsibility! As you grow up you learn this more and more! Not being able to get to the scene of a fire/ems/police job because the parade route was too congested is not an excuse. Just because someone will have to sit out this one and man the rig. I have stood by for Mohegan on numerous occasions when I was a volunteer EMT in Peekskill. That is responsibility, they have their event, and still make sure that resources are available without delay. Usually 1 Engine, 1 Ladder, and and ambulance. Like I said, parades are great, but not everyone has to go to each one!!!

[Guest]

...this you put your foot down on? ok

[LCFD968 10]

It is pretty unfortunate that it has come to this and unfortunately it is part of our profession in the volunteer fire service. This site was made to disscuss anything and everything about OUR profession and now it has been removed.

Just because some people don't believe in it we all have to suffer. I don't believe that someone should have brought race into it and that was ok because a moderator Believed it was ok so be it....Whats going to be the next subject that some people won't like to talk about santa runs, the good intent calls that are useless or maybe musters? They are all part of our profession and the site was made to let us disscus our PROFESSION...

For ANYONE to say I am not a professional because I go to parades and support parades is the problem with these threads and those people should be removed for insulting us and let the members that do go and enjoy them keep discussing....

Just a few thoughts going through my head...

Edited March 11, 2007 by LCFD968

[helicopper 1,050]

Not being able to get to the scene of a fire/ems/police job because the parade route was too congested is not an excuse. 

That is responsibility, they have their event, and still make sure that resources are available without delay.  Usually 1 Engine, 1 Ladder, and and ambulance.  Like I said, parades are great, but not everyone has to go to each one!!!

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Yes, it is responsibility - and also PLANNING! Entirely too many people in this business have no idea what that word means! If your town is being divided in half by a parade, put resources on both sides of it for the one or two hours a parade is going on so nobody's lives need to be endangered by crossing the parade route for an emergency response. Don't put on-call resources in the parade or make sure someone is back-filling your district while your apparatus is in the parade. Pulling out of the parade for an emergency response is crazy.

Arranging for back-fill during a parade is not the same thing as mutual aid. This would allow the chiefs to coordinate coverage and first due areas without depleting resources for either department. If an agency does this, fine! But not to plan, and to just put their department in a parade without consideration for what's going to happen if there's a call during the parade is just plain irresponsible!

Parades are great - they're fun, good for morale, everyone gets the warm fuzzies, whatever! But they're not the JOB!!!! They're a bonus. It seems that some people forget this when 40-50 people turn out for a parade but only 10 turn out for a fire call!

[Guest]

Seth, I'm behind this decision 110%. I'm pretty tired of seeing anything about parades and the like. I did a standby @ work for one this past summer and it was nothing but an over-exagerated frat party whose participants acted anything but professional. Discussing such events contributes little to the emergency services as a whole. I think people need to start tackling some of the more critical issues with their respective services and emergency services as a whole before any of us can sit back and worry about this crap.

[RWC130 594]

EMTBravo........... Well said.

AMEN!

[TRUCK6018 50]

It is pretty unfortunate that it has come to this and unfortunately it is part of our profession in the volunteer fire service.....

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The profession of the fire service (notice I did not say volunteer or career), is to protect and serve the community, period! That should be the first priority! Not to go to parades, musters or santa runs. If the pager goes off, that should be it. It's mighty hard to explain why there are response delays because members priorities are in the wrong place.

For ANYONE to say I am not a professional because I go to parades and support parades is the problem with these threads and those people should be removed for insulting us and let the members that do go and enjoy them keep discussing....

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Just because you do support parades does not mean your not professional. But, when your time comes to sit on the side lines to stand by to protect the town you serve, remember that priority and don't cry and whine like I've seen so many do.

Those fire departments that have mission statements include protecting live and property. They don't have going to parades, tie up half million dollar rigs and get stupid drunk included in the vision statements. If this is the reason any one member joined, it's time for a wake up call! This is the 21st century folks!

Edited March 11, 2007 by TRUCK6018

[Guest]

As we are trying to breed a more professional atmosphere here,-EMTBravo

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Why is EMTBravo being attacked for that? Those who are attacking him over this should be ashamed of themselves. Unreal.

Why so quick to get defensive? Of you're so confident in your position......

I'm a volunteer, and I, although love this site, am tired of seeing people being more passionate about parades then they are about proper manpower and response times. I think EMTBravo putting a stop to the numerous parade argument threads help us all by keeping our focus on where it should be. EMTBravo has a tremendous media influence over the local fire service, and maybe this action may help begin change.

The traditionalist crap needs to go in the trash with the trophies. Also, there's a difference between professional and acting professional. Learn it.

Keep up the great work Seth! There are hundreds here that have your back against those who want to use this forum but want to slam the administrator time and time again.

[wcr20 17]

When I was running EMS, I can remember plenty of times where we couldn't fill a 3 man shift to cover the town, but getting 5+ people for a parade, fire works, special event, etc. during the same time period somehow didn't seem to be a problem.

I also recall a (state?) parade in Port Chester about 20+ years ago, where 2 very tall sticks were erected in the parking lot at the end near the beer garden, and what was going on at the top didn't look like a particularly good idea. Now, if, by any chance, I'm wrong about that, then I hereby issue my apology now.

Edited March 11, 2007 by wcr20

[FF402 133]

I think it's great that EMTBravo is using his position to help get rid of the tradionalist crap

[Guest]

He's got a point..Please cut the bullshit already

[Medic5274 45]

Lets think of this from the perspective of a municipal official or resident who is unaware that apparatus is going out of town for a parade. How many departments let their elected officials or municipal manager know that the Chief is allowing apparatus to go out of the municipality for a parade without making arrangements for coverage in town and relying on mutual aid coverage. I am sure the residents of most municipalites would not be happy about this especially if there was an incident at there residence. Imagine having to explain the delay in response because the first due apparatus is at a parade or god forbid explaing the parade related respnse delay associated with a fatality.

Fire apparauts in a volunteer service is entrusted to the volunteers to be available during a time of need not during a time of partying for the volunteers which is what the real reason behind most parades

[PFD165 1]

Would it be safe to assume that the events thread will be limited only to seminars and shows? and no longer any listings for parades, breakfasts/dinners, golf outings, rose sales, benefit causes, etc......?

[Guest]

This board is SO pro-career it's disgusting. EMTBravo is probaly getting kickbacks from the IAFF. Career guys are no different then garbagemen, they're just in it for the money and its just a job. Ever see how disgusting a career rig looks? No pride in the job. I do it for free becasue I truly care about my community.

You require all this information just to sepak, and try to censor every word, to your benefit.

Go ahead, ban me you facist dictator. And we'd alll like to know, how come Truck4 doesn't have to give his info? I've called my friend in Westchester, this sites going to be boycotted my friend. Say goodbye to your "empire"

By trashing the volunteer service, you're now screwed.

[Future Fireman 4]

He wasn't trashing volunteers, he's just making a point about how some volunteers join for the wrong reasons, etc.,etc.

P.S. He's not screwed, you just made yourself screwed b/c there's a helluva lot of people here who support Seth.

Mike

[Guest]

This board is SO pro-career it's disgusting. EMTBravo is probaly getting kickbacks from the IAFF. Career guys are no different then garbagemen, they're just in it for the money and its just a job. Ever see how disgusting a career rig looks? No pride in the job.  I do it for free becasue I truly care about my community.

You require all this information just to sepak, and try to censor every word, to your benefit.

Go ahead, ban me you facist dictator. And we'd alll like to know, how come Truck4 doesn't have to give his info? I've called my friend in Westchester, this sites going to be boycotted my friend. Say goodbye to your "empire"

By trashing the volunteer service, you're now screwed.

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It's individuals like you who are the problem. If your attitude wasn't as prevalent (as you so aptly demonstrated) throughout the volunteer community, we wouldn't have to have these discussions, now would we? There are a lot of good, honest, hardworking volunteers on this forum - you should be ashamed of yourself, because you just did yourself AND them a major disservice. I mean, in all honesty, could you have justified the point of this topic any better? Seth, ignore this toolbox - your doing the right thing.

Edited March 12, 2007 by 66Alpha1

[ex-commish 490]

This board is SO pro-career it's disgusting. EMTBravo is probaly getting kickbacks from the IAFF. Career guys are no different then garbagemen, they're just in it for the money and its just a job. Ever see how disgusting a career rig looks? No pride in the job.  I do it for free becasue I truly care about my community.

You require all this information just to sepak, and try to censor every word, to your benefit.

Go ahead, ban me you facist dictator. And we'd alll like to know, how come Truck4 doesn't have to give his info? I've called my friend in Westchester, this sites going to be boycotted my friend. Say goodbye to your "empire"

By trashing the volunteer service, you're now screwed.

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I am a 27 year member of the volunteer fire service and I do not see this as a pro-career board. Why is it when certain "flaws" in our system are discussed the response from some is "volunteer bashing".

And why do you compare career guys to garbagemen? Are you trying to demean either profession? I know many who put thier kids through college riding the back of a garbage truck. And maybe thier (career) rigs look "disgusting" as you stated because they spend more time in pump gear doing what they were made and bought for rather than just look shiny for a trophy that don't mean anything.

The volunteer fire service better wake up. We have issues such as staffing and training that we need to deal with. I am not saying do away with parades as they are part of a tradition and show of pride but I feel they have become a bit too much and need to be scaled down a bit.

Seth....you made a very good point.

[TimesUp 148]

This board is SO pro-career it's disgusting. EMTBravo is probaly getting kickbacks from the IAFF. Career guys are no different then garbagemen, they're just in it for the money and its just a job. Ever see how disgusting a career rig looks? No pride in the job.  I do it for free becasue I truly care about my community.

You require all this information just to sepak, and try to censor every word, to your benefit.

Go ahead, ban me you facist dictator. And we'd alll like to know, how come Truck4 doesn't have to give his info? I've called my friend in Westchester, this sites going to be boycotted my friend. Say goodbye to your "empire"

By trashing the volunteer service, you're now screwed.

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WOW!!!! He called his "friend" in westchester. Oh my god the end must be near.

[AndyC3J 190]

While I fully understand, appreciate, and respect Seth's point of view regarding the purpose and intention of this site and forum, I can't quite get a grip on where all the hostility from the "anti-parade" crowd comes from.

Somebody said that by participating in a parade, the department is "betraying the trust" of the public it is supposed to be protecting. What public? The public that lines the streets by the thousands to cheer on their heroes? What newspaper doesn't publish a picture the next day of some little toddler with a red plastic helmet on his head watching in awe as the brave men and bright machines proudly strut their stuff in front of him. That's your future membership right there!

How is one rig and a dozen guys (let's be realistic here .....35-40 guys? Not in my area!) out of service to a parade or wetdown any different than one rig and a dozen guys out of service to the county training center doing firefigher training exercises?

And, what about the annual Open House events during Fire Prevention week, when the rig has every compartment on it open, sometimes with equipment removed, and there's a hundred kids running around? You ain't gettin' a full crew on the road in three minutes flat on that day, either. And who's to say that the areas are left unprotected, anyway. Is that factual info?

Seems to me that the "party-hearty" lifestyle that follows the parade is the raw nerve struck by several. So.....put a stop to it. Don't serve beer. If you can't have a good time without being half smashed, then you have problems that stretch well beyond any aspect of the fire service. And, as others have said so well, if the "glory" part is the only reason you joined, then you're in it for the wrong reasons! But, that's not for us to decide. It's up to the higher-ups in the department to weed out the problematic members.

Don't know how things work in Westchester, but in my area, many companies don't even hang around for the after-party. They run the parade and go home, back in service. Some don't even bother to get judged. Nothing wrong with that.

And lastly, it's not like this happens every week. You're talking, what, 4 or 5 such days out of a year? That doesn't sound to me like it's asking too much of anyone. If you're one of the members who doesn't like to go, then stay behind and man the truck that's still in service. Why rain on the "parade" of those who might like to take pride in themselves and their department and have a good time for once. All work and no play isn't good for anyone.

Just my $.02. Others may see differently.

[LCFD968 10]

The profession of the fire service (notice I did not say volunteer or career), is to protect and serve the community, period!  That should be the first priority!  Not to go to parades, musters or santa runs.  If the pager goes off, that should be it.  It's mighty hard to explain why there are response delays because members priorities are in the wrong place.

Just because you do support parades does not mean your not professional.  But, when your time comes to sit on the side lines to stand by to protect the town you serve, remember that priority and don't cry and whine like I've seen so many do.

Those fire departments that have mission statements include protecting live and property.  They don't have going to parades, tie up half million dollar rigs and get stupid drunk included in the vision statements.  If this is the reason any one member joined, it's time for a wake up call!  This is the 21st century folks!

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I never stated that Parades are my first priorty. What I said was that it is part of the PROFESSION OF OUR VOLUNTEER SERVICE. I did not make it a career volley thing that YOU think i did.

The short version of what i said is "THE THREADS SHOULD NOT BE CUT OFF BECAUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU!!!!"

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE THREAD THEN DON'T POST ON IT!!!! YOU DON'T THINK ITS NOT WORTH TALKING ABOUT SKIP OVER IT KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT!!!!!

If I want to talk about it I should be able to FREELY talk with my fellow professionals as I wish!!!!!!

Well said ANDYCJ3

Edited March 12, 2007 by LCFD968

[lad12derff 283]

This board is SO pro-career it's disgusting. EMTBravo is probaly getting kickbacks from the IAFF. Career guys are no different then garbagemen, they're just in it for the money and its just a job. Ever see how disgusting a career rig looks? No pride in the job.  I do it for free becasue I truly care about my community.

You require all this information just to sepak, and try to censor every word, to your benefit.

Go ahead, ban me you facist dictator. And we'd alll like to know, how come Truck4 doesn't have to give his info? I've called my friend in Westchester, this sites going to be boycotted my friend. Say goodbye to your "empire"

By trashing the volunteer service, you're now screwed.

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ARE YOU KIDDING US JACKOFF. YOU DO IT FOR FREE CAUSE, A: YOU COULD NOT EVER BE A CAREER GUY WITH YOUR ATTITUDE AND, B: IF YOU EVER GOT ON THE JOB WE WOULD LOCK YOU IN A LOCKER AND THROW AWAY THE KEY TILL YOU HIT 20 YEARS. GO BACK TO MOMMY AND DADDY'S HOUSE AND WHEN YOU GROW UP YOU CAN COME BACK TO PLAY IN THE SAND BOX.

[khas143 13]

Lets think of this from the perspective of a municipal official or resident who is unaware that apparatus is going out of town for a parade.  How many departments let their elected officials or municipal manager know that the Chief is allowing apparatus to go out of the municipality for a parade without making arrangements for coverage in town and relying on mutual aid coverage.  I am sure the residents of most municipalites would not be happy about this especially if there was an incident at there residence.  Imagine having to explain the delay in response because the first due apparatus is at a parade or god forbid explaing the parade related respnse delay associated with a fatality. 

Fire apparauts in a volunteer service is entrusted to the volunteers to be available during a time of need not during a time of partying for the volunteers which is what the real reason behind most parades

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If the residents of a town don't want a volunteer department (and historically, parades do go along with that) then they can pay for a career department if they so desire.

[Guest]

The "stance on threads" is consistant like emotions during pregnancy.....

Edited March 12, 2007 by lfdR1

[Skooter92 7]

1) If you're gonna go to (name an event), make sure that your area is covered. Period. Every organization I've ever been affiliated with has done this, up to and including paid agency coverage.

2) While I'm not a parade enthusiast, I'm not in favor of doing away with them.. Rituals serve important functions in groups and communities. However, rituals can and should change in response to external needs and pressures. Why drive to extinction when the beast can evolve?

3) This is not a topic for much more debate. It's Seth's board. He pays the bills, so we can respect his guidelines. Actually, he really hasn't placed very strict guidelines on posting, as evidenced by some of the posts in this thread alone. we all get nasty, stupid, silly, and flat out moronic at times. Relax, it's someone's OPINION, and we all know about those.

[LCFD968 10]

Bad call Seth....... Wrong topic to pick on. It apparently is very important to alot of people its the people that appose it that can't ignore it. Ifdr1 brought up a good point, the Code 3 topic is brought up constantly and it does not interest me but I chose not to partake in the conversation but it is important to some people. Do we go in there and talk bad about it or state opinions that are against the people in there posting what they want to, NO. Its called respect. Some of the Members lack it and because they oppose something your closing the topics. This site was based on opinions and when i voiced mine one time and felt i was getting bashed YOU pointed out to me that this is an OPEN discussion and they everybody is entitled to there opinion. Now your taking away the hot topics to talk about that make this site what it is.

Edited March 12, 2007 by LCFD968