Mount Vernon-Chemical Plant Fire w/ Evacuations 3-28-08 (Incident Discussion Thread)

[LT410 5]

http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article.../803280436/1018

[rfdu39 89]

Anyone have the complete rundown of units oppearating and relocating? Fox 5 had good footage of the fire at the start of their newscast.

[LTNRFD 266]

Anyone have the complete rundown of units oppearating and relocating? Fox 5 had good footage of the fire at the start of their newscast.

Mutual Aid Companies

545 S FULTON AVE : @KEM CHEMICAL CORPORATION MT_VERNON

2001, 2122, 2126, 2292, 230_Eng, 230_Lad, BAT14, BAT15, CC1, CC2, CC3, CC5, CHIEF200, CONED-E, CONED-G, DPT200, DPT212, DPT217, E171, E22, FC1,

HD1, L12, MDU1,OEM1, OEM3, OEM9, R29, U7, WCHD, WCSPILL

50 W 3RD ST : @FIRE DEPT - MOUNT VERNON - STA 3 MT_VERNON

2103, 210_Lad, 215_Eng, 230_Eng, 230_Lad, 235_Eng, E151, E22, E5, L12, TL17

Edited March 29, 2008 by DOC22

[20y2 43]

Mutual Aid Companies

545 S FULTON AVE : @KEM CHEMICAL CORPORATION MT_VERNON

2001, 2122, 2126, 2292, 230_Eng, 230_Lad, BAT14, BAT15, CC1, CC2, CC3, CC5, CHIEF200, CONED-E, CONED-G, DPT200, DPT212, DPT217, E171, E22, FC1,

HD1, L12, MDU1,OEM1, OEM3, OEM9, R29, U7, WCHD, WCSPILL

50 W 3RD ST : @FIRE DEPT - MOUNT VERNON - STA 3 MT_VERNON

2103, 210_Lad, 215_Eng, 230_Eng, 230_Lad, 235_Eng, E151, E22, E5, L12, TL17

Care to fill us in who or what those units are?

[Scottyk107 9]

Is this on the same side as the furniture store fire? Im trying to picture it in my head if you pull out of station 2 and make the left onto Fulton the next intersection w/ the Macdonald's is Sanford right? I know Mt. Vernon has a hazmat bus and trailer anyone know if that was used as well. Sounds like a great time for the use of that foam unit.

[EFD1883 137]

I was on scene taking pictures and will post them later tonight or Saturday during the day.

Edited March 29, 2008 by TR54
All Caps

[20y2 43]

Is this on the same side as the furniture store fire? Im trying to picture it in my head if you pull out of station 2 and make the left onto Fulton the next intersection w/ the Macdonald's is Sanford right? I know Mt. Vernon has a hazmat bus and trailer anyone know if that was used as well. Sounds like a great time for the use of that foam unit.

It's south of Sandford Blvd ON Fulton. In other words its on the same side on the next block south of 'Station 2'.

[20y2 43]

Care to fill us in who or what those units are?

I looked at the WCDES Apparatus list and most of the apparatus listed aren't making sense...

http://www.westchestergov.com/emergserv/ap...tus/APP2008.pdf

[Guest]

2/4 vids up on my youtube channel so far.

http://www.youtube.com/NRFDTL11Buff2

OR just turn on the tv, there camera is a little bttr than mine . (& Youtube is a little cheap with there quality bandwith these days)

Edited March 29, 2008 by NoFearFD

[INIT915 1,119]

I looked at the WCDES Apparatus list and most of the apparatus listed aren't making sense...

http://www.westchestergov.com/emergserv/ap...tus/APP2008.pdf

230_ENG would be a M/A engine from N.R. using the CAD set-up--- NR Dept Code is 230

(More commonly known as Eng 22 in this particular incident)

230_LAD would be a ladder from N.R., etc., etc.

[TR54 239]

Mutual Aid Companies

545 S FULTON AVE : @KEM CHEMICAL CORPORATION MT_VERNON

2001, 2122, 2126, 2292, 230_Eng, 230_Lad, BAT14, BAT15, CC1, CC2, CC3, CC5, CHIEF200, CONED-E, CONED-G, DPT200, DPT212, DPT217, E171, E22, FC1,

HD1, L12, MDU1,OEM1, OEM3, OEM9, R29, U7, WCHD, WCSPILL

50 W 3RD ST : @FIRE DEPT - MOUNT VERNON - STA 3 MT_VERNON

2103, 210_Lad, 215_Eng, 230_Eng, 230_Lad, 235_Eng, E151, E22, E5, L12, TL17

Department numbers = 200 County Haz-Mat

212 Fairview , 217 Hartsdale , 229 Mt Vernon , HD Health Dept, 230 New Rochelle , CC County Car , 235 Pelham 210, Eastchester.

[Truck4 48]

Why not call Yonkers Fire for help with this? Millions of dollars in HazMat response equipment right next door. All mutual aid BS aside, guys are exposed and need decon with help minutes away.

[Guest DFFD227]

Any update? Is this thing still going good?

[efdny2003 16]

I just read the incident alert and Ive read the posts in here, is New Rochelle's engine and ladder, the Westchester County Haz-Mat, and the Fairview/Hartsdale unit the only mutual aid units?

[RocklandFires 44]

2/4 vids up on my youtube channel so far.

http://www.youtube.com/NRFDTL11Buff2

OR just turn on the tv, there camera is a little bttr than mine . (& Youtube is a little cheap with there quality bandwith these days)

Is that you in the Journal News Video ?

http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...328044/-1/video

[helicopper 1,050]

I was on scene taking pictures and will post them later tonight or Saturday during the day.

With or without PPE????

[helicopper 1,050]

On a serious note, the IA says that decon was set up at 2215 - what about everyone working there from 2000??

I will delete my question if the responses turn into that insidious animal we're all sick of, but just out of curiosity - why not call FDNY or Yonkers for a job like this?

Besides the FD rundown, what was the EMS response? Did any of the mass decon units get deployed for potential use? Was there any PD mutual aid?

Please note, I am asking because this incident had the potential to be far worse - not because I'm criticizing the FDMV!

[jd783 64]

I belive the have a list and Yonkers and FDNY are at the bottom of the list, this fire looked out of control from the start and MV did a good job with it

Edited March 29, 2008 by jd783

[61MACKBR1 222]

Also intended not to start an argument or bash anyone, but simply asking for a factual response. Given the severity of the Chemical Fire in Mount Vernon, and understainding, within Westchester County, that Yonkers has the largest equipment Special Operations Division in the State (outside of FDNY) then WHY wouldn't Yonkers be called into this incident? I understand that Yonkers has refused to respond any Mutual Aid requuest, if they are just going to sit inside a Fire House. However, again, with all of the so called specialized equipment that YFD has, why a "No Show" (and having Yonkers at the bottom of the list makes no sense at all, given the type of fire it was).

In my personal opinion (and mine only) this just only brings more justification for Regionalizing the Fire and EMS Services throughout Westchester County.

[FirNaTine 370]

Did FDMV institute a callback? If so, how many of their own members reported for duty?

[Bnechis 3,961]

On a serious note, the IA says that decon was set up at 2215 - what about everyone working there from 2000??

They were still fighting the fire decon was only needed to make sure nobody took anything off the scene. It was a know location from pre-planning and almost every responder stayed upwind and up hill so they were not contaminated.

I will delete my question if the responses turn into that insidious animal we're all sick of, but just out of curiosity - why not call FDNY or Yonkers for a job like this?

Becausethe IC did not feel they were needed.

Besides the FD rundown, what was the EMS response? Did any of the mass decon units get deployed for potential use? Was there any PD mutual aid?

Empress EMS had a number of units including supervisors there.

Squad 6 set up decon for responders, there was no need for setting up mass decon. However it is obvious that Westchesters trailer based decon units (the Squads and MDU's) need to have full service decon trailers like Conn. or FDNY have.

There was no need for PD MA. All MVPD needed to do was close SO. Fulton at 2 locations and maintain the established fire line. It looked to me that they has sufficient personnel to do it if they wanted to.

[Bnechis 3,961]

In my personal opinion (and mine only) this just only brings more justification for Regionalizing the Fire and EMS Services throughout Westchester County.

All but one of the departments in the regionalization study were involved either onscene or covering other dept stations. It would be much cleaner if this was performed by a single dept.

[CPAGE 2]

Also intended not to start an argument or bash anyone, but simply asking for a factual response. Given the severity of the Chemical Fire in Mount Vernon, and understainding, within Westchester County, that Yonkers has the largest equipment Special Operations Division in the State (outside of FDNY) then WHY wouldn't Yonkers be called into this incident? I understand that Yonkers has refused to respond any Mutual Aid requuest, if they are just going to sit inside a Fire House. However, again, with all of the so called specialized equipment that YFD has, why a "No Show" (and having Yonkers at the bottom of the list makes no sense at all, given the type of fire it was).

In my personal opinion (and mine only) this just only brings more justification for Regionalizing the Fire and EMS Services throughout Westchester County.

Also not start any trouble

FDMV did a great job from what I had seen and heard. Yonkers does respond on mutual aid. However, they refuse to sit in the firehouse for more than 30 minutes if the host department has not started recalling off duty members.

And not to burst anyone's bubble but YFD and FDNY is not the answer to all in the fire service. Just because you have all the toy's you don't own the playground. Also Yonkers and FDNY can not go toe every fire that happens they do need to worry about the area's they have.

Keep up the great work FDMV. Good Job

Edited March 29, 2008 by CPAGE

[lad12derff 283]

Also not start any trouble

FDMV did a great job from what I had seen and heard. YFD does not want to give M/A to Dept's unless they call the shot's. And not to burst anyone's bubble but YFD and FDNY is not the answer to all in the fire service. Just because you have all the toy's you don't own the playground.

Keep up the great work FDMV. Good Job

Actually it is FDNY that will take over your fire scene not Yonkers.

[batt2 145]

Also not start any trouble

FDMV did a great job from what I had seen and heard. YFD does not want to give M/A to Dept's unless they call the shot's. And not to burst anyone's bubble but YFD and FDNY is not the answer to all in the fire service. Just because you have all the toy's you don't own the playground.

Keep up the great work FDMV. Good Job

YFD not responding unless we call the shots? Never. At a fire scene I think we've always worked professionally with the hosts.

[61MACKBR1 222]

Again, 1 Question - I understand that the IC felt Yonkers was not needed (and certainly everyone wants Mount Vernon to be able to handle as many incidents by themselves as they feel that they can, so this is not intended against Mount Vernon), but why did the IC feel it was necessary to call in the Westchester County Haz-Mat Team and the Fairview/Hartsdale Department, when Yonkers has one the largest Special Operations (Haz Mat Teams) Departments in the State and they are much closer to Mount Vernon than WCDES Valhalla and Hartsdale? If the IC thought is was important enough to call in the Haz Mat Team from Valhalla, why not utilize Yonkers, who could be there much faster, and potentially avoid any possible worse conditions (Timing)? Just a question.?

[FirNaTine 370]

Again, 1 Question - I understand that the IC felt Yonkers was not needed (and certainly everyone wants Mount Vernon to be able to handle as many incidents by themselves as they feel that they can, so this is not intended against Mount Vernon), but why did the IC feel it was necessary to call in the Westchester County Haz-Mat Team and the Fairview/Hartsdale Department, when Yonkers has one the largest Special Operations (Haz Mat Teams) Departments in the State and they are much closer to Mount Vernon than WCDES Valhalla and Hartsdale? If the IC thought is was important enough to call in the Haz Mat Team from Valhalla, why not utilize Yonkers, who could be there much faster, and potentially avoid any possible worse conditions (Timing)? Just a question.?

The answer to your question is EGOS. Fortunately, nobody was seriously injured as a result. Not for nothin guys, and no disrespect to FDMV, they try their best, but how can anyone expect a Dept. to handle an incident of this magnitude, when they have trouble with their bread and butter fires. Maybe this will be the wake up call for the City Officials to properly fund and improve their FD. Then again, they''ll probably just wait for Regionalization. It'll be alot easier and cheaper in the long run.

[LTNRFD 266]

Again, 1 Question - I understand that the IC felt Yonkers was not needed (and certainly everyone wants Mount Vernon to be able to handle as many incidents by themselves as they feel that they can, so this is not intended against Mount Vernon), but why did the IC feel it was necessary to call in the Westchester County Haz-Mat Team and the Fairview/Hartsdale Department, when Yonkers has one the largest Special Operations (Haz Mat Teams) Departments in the State and they are much closer to Mount Vernon than WCDES Valhalla and Hartsdale? If the IC thought is was important enough to call in the Haz Mat Team from Valhalla, why not utilize Yonkers, who could be there much faster, and potentially avoid any possible worse conditions (Timing)? Just a question.?

I think that this question should be directed to Chief Everett if you want the real answer, and not to the people on this site. No one here can answer for the chief, they can only state opinion. I would think that this building has been pre-planned and decisions were not all from the seat of the pants.

[demps121 39]

Just a note on the "yonkers takes control", I work in Eastchester and Yonkers has been here in the past on mutual aid at different times, I have NEVER had a problem with the firefighters or officers from Yonkers. It has always been what can we do to help. The Yonkers firefighters and officers have always been nothing but professional in my dealings with YFD.

[61MACKBR1 222]

I think that this question should be directed to Chief Everett if you want the real answer, and not to the people on this site. No one here can answer for the chief, they can only state opinion. I would think that this building has been pre-planned and decisions were not all from the seat of the pants.

I know that there are a number of FDMV members who are registered and members of EMTBravo.net, some of whom might have worked this job and may know first hand of some of decissions that were made. Yes, Chief Everett is the one who made the call, but the call to bring in WCDES Haz-Mat and Hartsdale/Fairview OVER Yonkers (given the Spec.Ops Resources that Yonkers has at their disposal) makes, in my own opinon, no sense at all. I don't think that Chief Everett made the decission from the "Seat of His Pants" BUT, I do think that there is something behind this decission that he made to request resources that were further away than a similiar (if not better equiped) resouce that was much closer, that needs to be questioned, not only by the citizens of the City of Mount Vernon, but from all over Westchester County. This whole Mutual Aid Plan/Program is full of holes, politics, EGO's, and Union involvement, that some day, and hopefully we never see that day, it will cost lives.