Change In Mount Vernon Incoming Mutual Aid Units (Unconfirmed)

[x635 4,066]

The EMTBravo.net Central Intelligence team is working on a credible lead out of MVFD, however unconfirmed at this time (yes, another story!)

New Rochelle is no longer is first due for mutual aid to Mount Vernon. On the flip side, Mount Vernon is no longer first due mutual aid into New Rochelle.

Also, Yonkers will not come into Mount Vernon, that is a long standing situation, unless they are absolutely needs and there are lives at risk.

The next multiple alarm in Mount Vernon should be interesting. I hope no one gets hurt.

[gpdexplorer 46]

If New Rochelle and Yonkers won't be responding in who would be the next closest units? Eastchester, Pelham? I don't know any history of what's goin on, but it seems that there is some political non-sense that is going to endanger countless lifes of firefighters and the general public.

[x635 4,066]

New Rochelle I don't know any history of what's goin on, but it seems that there is some political non-sense that is going to endanger countless lifes of firefighters and the general public.

New Rochelle doesn't play the political nonsense game. It is about firefighter safety first and foremost. Let's not forget how many times Engine 22 and Ladder 12 have been first due to Mount Vernon literally.......

[JBE 328]

I got a feeling it's gonna be FDNY. Just a hunch.

[RWC130 594]

FDNY M/A to Mount Vernon? HMMMMM

Division 7?

Map Credit:

http://www.carolinasfirepage.com/maps/fdny_div07.htm

[JBE 328]

I honestly don't doubt it's possible. Not trying to start rumors or anything. The delay in getting FDNY up there is really only waiting for the ok from the COD or CW Tour Commander. Even that takes less than 15 minutes.

[Scottyk107 9]

I know Mt. Vernon would probably love if FDNY would do this but just as the term it self states it's MUTUAL aid. What is FDNY receiving in return? Will they charge them every time they come into the city?

[JFLYNN 681]

The EMTBravo.net Central Intelligence team is working on a credible lead out of MVFD, however unconfirmed at this time (yes, another story!)

New Rochelle is no longer is first due for mutual aid to Mount Vernon. On the flip side, Mount Vernon is no longer first due mutual aid into New Rochelle.

Also, Yonkers will not come into Mount Vernon, that is a long standing situation.

The next multiple alarm in Mount Vernon should be interesting. I hope no one gets hurt.

You are absolutely incorrect regarding Yonkers not going in to Mt. Vernon on mutual aid. Our policy for the last 5 or so years regarding mutual aid remains in place. We will provide mutual aid in Westchester County or NYC when it is requested. If we are requested to respond directly to a working fire, we will stay as long as necessary. If requested to stand by in one of that departments fire houses, a Deputy or Battalion Chief will request them to begin a recall of their off duty members. If, after approximately 30 minutes, the Deputy or Battalion Chief believes that they have not begun recalling off duty members, we will return to Yonkers. We will stay for as long as it takes for them to bring the recalled members in if we believe that they are making an honest effort to quickly bring their own members in and are not using Yonkers to supplement their inadequately manned department.

We do not treat Mt. Vernon any differently than any other department in this regard and I wish people would get their facts straight before posting things about the Yonkers Fire Department on here.

[61MACKBR1 222]

Chief Flynn - So that everyone on EMTBravo can get a complete understanding of Yonkers position in this matter as well as to get correct information directly from a Senior Level Officer within the Yonkers Fire Department, so that we can all have our facts correct, I have just a few questions relating to your response above:

So, if we understand you correctly, based on your post, as part of a Mutual Aid request made by the City of Mount Vernon, The Yonkers Fire Deapartment will respond to Mount Vernon, as either

A) On a Stand By A Station Status" provided that an effort is being made to recall all Off Duty Mount Vernon Fire Department Personnel to either respond directly to the fire in question OR to be used to provide support in their stations able to respond directly to fires throughout the city. Once an Officer from the Yonkers Fire Department determines that the manpower needed if sufficient, Yonkers will return to its city

B ) Or to "Respond Directly To Fire" provided Mount Vernon recalls all off duty firefighters to repond to the fire at hand. Once an Officer from Yonkers determines that the manpower needed is sufficient, Yonkes will return to its city

Is that correct? If, so then, I have a question for you. Assuming that Mount Vernon recalls ever single off duty firefighter that they have to respond back to the city, BUT, Mount Vernon does not have enough Fire Suppression Apparatus "In Service" to respond to either the fire OR to respond to other alarms in Mount Vernon, would Yonkers stay? Or would Yonkers LOAN rigs to Mount Vernon FD for their Off Duty FF's to respond on?

I may be wrong, but I believe that the issue is not the willingness of Mount Vernon to pull in all of its off duty manpower to help the city out, but rather a case that Mount Vernon does not have enough available and "working" spare apparatus to suppliment a major fire and/or support the city for other fire related calls during a major fire.

I am sure that everyone is looking forward to your response Cheif Flynn. Thank you.

[jack10562 414]

I don't see anywhere in Chief Flynn's post where there is a recall requirement as per your statement: B )

"If we are requested to respond directly to a working fire, we will stay as long as necessary"

[Reliance 29]

I don't see anywhere in Chief Flynn's post where there is a recall requirement as per your statement: B )

What is wrong in Mount Vernon that they are loosing their Mutual Aid help. Besides politics and money.

[mfc2257 464]

Chief Flynn's response doesn't require a dissertation to figure out.

Working Fire: YFD goes to the scene and stays as long as needed

Standby in Quarters: YFD goes to the station requested and will stay as long as the requesting agency needs to recall off duty members and staff reserve apparatus. If after 30 minutes the YFD OIC does not believe off duty MOS are being recalled expeditiously, YFD units will stand down and return to quarters.

Nuff said.

Edited November 18, 2008 by mfc2257

[x635 4,066]

You are absolutely incorrect regarding Yonkers not going in to Mt. Vernon on mutual aid.

We do not treat Mt. Vernon any differently than any other department in this regard and I wish people would get their facts straight before posting things about the Yonkers Fire Department on here.

#1. First of all, I have my facts straight, and have mentioned in numerous other posts about Yonkers making themselves and their resources available anywhere, INCLUDING this post. I was vague in my post, and should have made it clearer, and appreciate you adding the detail. It is still complicated and as you detailed, Yonkers will not automatically come into MV right away like New Rochelle. For instance, the multiple alarm fire on Lincoln Ave a few years back....Yonkers FD pulled out because the fire was at shift change and MVFD was sending it's off duty manpower home instead of holding them over.

#2. As far as people getting their facts straight, that's one of the good things about this forum....it gives departments the chance to get the correct information out, and resolve rumors or incorrect information. People may talk about things on this forum, but they also talk about it at what many of you refer to as "the kitchen table".

Not to sound like a jerk but why do you all care? Half of you are not even from around here! Then for some reason you all jump on Yonkers every time this comes up WHY? Mt. Vernon will always get the help they need end of story! Does that mean its right? Probably not but thats the way it is until there is an OFFICIAL change in the mutual aid agreement. So unless your a Chief of one the departments involved talk about something else!

Domenick

BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THIS FORUM IS FOR! Are half the people who love FDNY and discuss them all "from around here"? When an incident occurs in a fire department halfway across the country, do we not discuss it here or is it not covered in a magazine? Most of us are not idiots...we're aware that EVERY department will come help Mount Vernon if lives and property are in true danger, however, I think moves are being made because Mount Vernon needs to call M/A for a room and contents fire. This forum has shed light on a lot of the issues, and all the "scoops" I've gotten about Mount Vernon have turned out to be TRUE. And please also note, I said unconfirmed.

Mount Vernon needs more staffing, newer equipment, and clean, safe firehouses. Maybe some departments are emulating Yonkers and finally stepping up to the plate to try and force this change....

[efd184 59]

Mount Vernon needs more staffing, newer equipment, and clean, safe firehouses. Maybe some departments are emulating Yonkers and finally stepping up to the plate to try and force this change....

Every Department has these issues and no one is going to force them to change as you can see with the new hiring issues!

[x635 4,066]

Every Department has these issues and no one is going to force them to change as you can see with the new hiring issues!

Not every department has a situation as serious as Mount Vernon's. I know it seems like the problems are endless and will never be resolved, but what do you propose as a solution. I feel as frusterated as you, and like you, have numerous friends in MVFD who I don't want to see get hurt. I know there are several members of MVFD who want their voices heard because most of the issues that go on in that department they try to hide.

Looking back at some of my posts regarding MVFD information in the past year, it's absolutely ridiculous the stuff that goes on, and there being no end in sight. Also, the Journal News has picked up a couple of stories from postings on this forum.

Maybe there is no public outrage from Mount Vernon's citizens because a majority rent and don't pay taxes, and are used to recieving poor services. Maybe Mount Vernon FD needs a stronger, more vocal union, or help from the IAFF National. I don't kknow what the fix is.

[Union241 3]

I know when I was living there Eastchester would be transferred to cover Mt. Vernon stations. Having been gone for almost 4 years, is this still the case? If so could we be seeing Eastchester being dispatched straight to the scene, or in order to prevent an entire area being stripped clean of apparatus/manpower a department slightly further away such as Scarsdale or Hawthorne being sent mutual aid to Mount Vernon?

[FirNaTine 370]

I have quite a few friends in FDMV and their general consensus is we are NOT a callback Dept. whether there are spares to man or not. How can you expect guys to go back in at 3:00 am for a Job, when they put an engine o.o.s. and drop to 17 men at the beginning of a tour. The City Officials don't care so why should they. They should have had the manpower and equipment in service to begin with, not when the $hit hits the fan. I've never seen a municipality that constantly gambles with peoples lives, both its personnel and citizens. The sad thing is, even if something drastic does happen, things won't change for the better.

[61MACKBR1 222]

Could the bottom line issue just be a case that FDMV just doesn't have enough apparatus to cover a city of its size? I am not a firefighting professional, so I will leave the answers to those who are more in the know. But, if I was a citizen of the City of Mount Vernon, I would certainly be concerned that the city that I lived in was not adequately equiped with enough Fire Suppression Apparatus needed. Mutual Aid, in other Northeastern States and related counties, is controlled by either the COUNTY or by a designated Regional Fire Control District. In relationship to Mount Vernon, such control, if based on similar Mutual Aid plans would be exclusively controlled and managed by the County of Westchester, Department of Emergency Services. The County-Based Agency would assign Mutual Aid manpower and apparatus.

Within the area that I reside, Mutual Aid is controlled and managed by the Southern New England Fire Emergency Mutual Aide Assistance Program, availability is based on the 3/1 rule, where no more than 1/3 of any communities’ active apparatus will be committed to mutual aid. This mutual aid plan does not allow one community to commit all of its apparatus resources to the receiving community, thereby causing a community to be without resources. Mutual Aid, as defined by the Southern New England Fire Emergency Mutual Aid Assistance Program, is as follows:

Mutual-Aid assigned by the the respective REGIONAL CONTROL CENTER (similiar in nature to Westcheser County's 60 Control) is based upon the need as outlined within the following categories:

1. Major fire in progress

2. Relocation to vacant station

3. Single company to another incident.

4. Balance of full assignment to another incident.

5. Special apparatus to incident scene.6. Directional coverage on highway.

7. Automatic aid - initial assignment

8. Mass Casualty Incident

9. Haz-Mat / WMD Incident

The Regional Control Center has full authority to allocate and control all Mutual Aid requests and assignments, as directed by the RCC, to local municipal and volunteer fire departments with that RCC sector.

So, the question that I have for those who are more knowlegable that I (and possibly others members of EMTBravo.net) concerning this issue, is:

a) How much authority does 60 Control have over the allocation and assignment of Mutual Aid Assistance.

Does the "Fire District" within the Southern Westchester Area (Battalion 18) that is responsibility of Battalion Chief Walter Ferguson, have (or should have) total control over the management of Mutual Aid for the area and departments that he is reponsible for? (along with 60 Control) as it relates to the assignment all Mutual Aid from departments within its area, rather than Mount Vernon requesting it "directly" from another department? (In the case of Battalion 18, it would be for the Departments from Eastchester, Greenville, Mount Vernon, New Rochelle, Pelham, Pelham Manor and Yonkers)

To me, a non firefighting individual, it appears to be simple. FDMV should request M/A via 60 Control and BC Ferguson, who makes the decission on who and what companies travel into Mount Vernon.

If any member of EMTBravo who is more knowledgable and hands on regarding this matter could respond and help us all gain a better understanding of the agreements that are currently in place and maybe what they feel it should be, in order to "save lives and property" without prejudice, that would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance

[x635 4,066]

I wish people would get their facts straight before posting things about the Yonkers Fire Department on here.

OK, so a member of my CIU did his homework, and looked through the Journal News and News 12 Archives, and came up with this. These are all verifiable statements:

Yonkers ended mutual aid agreements with Mount Vernon and Eastchester in 1998-

"I can't have my people sitting in a Mount Vernon firehouse because they have budget problems," Yonkers Fire Commissioner Peter Guyett.

-News 12 Westchester

In 2004, Dr. Nicholas Cicchetti stated- "The truth of the matter is that Mount Vernon stopped requesting aid from Yonkers because of the constant misinformation that is portrayed by Yonkers..."

-Journal News

The last time Yonkers went to a fire scene in Mount Vernon was December 24th, 2004.

-EMTBravo CIU

Personal note: It's my opinion that Yonkers is taking the correct sction and taking a stand against MVFD's abuse, however JFLYNN wanted facts so it is facts I gave him.

[61MACKBR1 222]

Seth - That's interesting information. Eastchester too? I don't believe that Yonkers had many Mutual Aid response requests into either Bronxville, Tuckahoe or Eastchester for Mutual Aid over the past 20 years or so. I think (Can someone confirm) that EFD did disband Engine 28 (in Tuckahoe) as a First Line resonse company, but I don't believe that this is similiar in nature to what is going on currently in FDMV.

Does anyone else know why Eastchester was included by the Office of Fire Commissioner within the Yonkers Fire Department

[JFLYNN 681]

OK, so a member of my CIU did his homework, and looked through the Journal News and News 12 Archives, and came up with this. These are all verifiable statements:

Yonkers ended mutual aid agreements with Mount Vernon and Eastchester in 1998-

-News 12 Westchester

-Journal News

The last time Yonkers went to a fire scene in Mount Vernon was December 24th, 2004.

-EMTBravo CIU

Personal note: It's my opinion that Yonkers is taking the correct sction and taking a stand against MVFD's abuse, however JFLYNN wanted facts so it is facts I gave him.

Your quote from former Commissioner Guyett is ten years old. It refers to us not sitting in their firehouses. It does not say we will not respond on mutual aid. We have never refused mutual aid requests. Our policy is correct as stated in my previous post and has been in place for the last five or so years (again, as I stated in my previous post). At the time Commissioner Guyett made the comment to the journal news, Mt. Vernon had been abusing the mutual aid system, and we in Yonkers were beginning to move toward our current policy.

We never ended mutual aid agreements with Eastchester and I have personally operated at a fire in Eastchester. I have also personally responded on mutual aid to Mt. Vernon, New Rochelle, Greenville and Hawthorne during my career.

To the best of my knowledge, the Yonkers Fire Department has never refused a mutual aid request in Westchester County or NYC.

If in fact the last time Yonkers went to a fire scene in Mt. Vernon was 2004, that must have been the last time we were requested.

Any remarks by the former Mount Vernon Fire Commissioner should be taken in light of from who they come...

[demps121 39]

The reason was Eastchester could not provide a fire house that the apparatus could back into (height restrictions), however I can recall at least 4 events in Eastchester when yonkers has responded. There is a great relationship with YFD and EFD, EFD will respond to Yonkers when called and Yonkers will respond to Eastchester when called. Do not try to make something out of EFD with Yonkers there is no problem!

Just an update YFD did not come off EFD mutual aid, they just moved down as a result of the fact YFD rigs do not fit in EFD houses

Edited November 19, 2008 by demps121

[firepunk 3]

Not to put my 2 cents in, but I can recall Yonkers FD on a mutual aid assignment in New Rochelle a few years back. They were covering station 3 on North Ave. They were dispatched to a auto alarm in the North end of New Rochelle. This alarm was a malfunction and the units went back in service. Not 30 min later the alarm banged in again. After they came back, they called the city of Yonkers and they returned to Yonkers because they were tired of standing by and wanted to be on scene. This is when yonkers was pulled or bumped down from New Rochelle's list. I can do some digging to find out the exact time this happened.

In regards to Mount Vernons staffing issue, it is not just there's. Every career fire department is undermanned with the execption of Yonkers and FDNY. In my opinion FDNY is overstaffed. This will not change so get used to the skeleton crews and open your arms to the abused MA system. When someone on the line does get hurt of killed watch the lawsuits role in for inproper staffing. This propblem is nation wide not just Westchester County. Be safe and watch eachothers back out there.

[FirNaTine 370]

In my opinion FDNY is overstaffed.

Overstaffed! In what respect? Tell that to their Union members.

[x635 4,066]

demps121, I apologize, I was only quoting published sources stating that Eastchester had ended M/A agreement with Yonkers in 1998.

JFLYNN, I don't have the time or energy of going back and forth with you. There really is no point in it, and I think we all now have learned and understand YFD's mutual aid policy, which has cleared up many misconceptions.

For the record, my personal opinion is that Yonkers FD is an EXCELLENT department that will respond anywhere, anytime to help anyone, and I never said anything different. I'm going to leave it at that, and we'll watch and see what happens in the upcoming "fire season".

Also, please try and treat your fellow members with a little more respect. Nobody is attacking anyone, we all have an opinion, and we all want to learn.

Now that we have the Yonkers situation cleared up, let's get back on track here.

[JFLYNN 681]

Not to put my 2 cents in, but I can recall Yonkers FD on a mutual aid assignment in New Rochelle a few years back. They were covering station 3 on North Ave. They were dispatched to a auto alarm in the North end of New Rochelle. This alarm was a malfunction and the units went back in service. Not 30 min later the alarm banged in again. After they came back, they called the city of Yonkers and they returned to Yonkers because they were tired of standing by and wanted to be on scene. This is when yonkers was pulled or bumped down from New Rochelle's list. I can do some digging to find out the exact time this happened.

In regards to Mount Vernons staffing issue, it is not just there's. Every career fire department is undermanned with the execption of Yonkers and FDNY. In my opinion FDNY is overstaffed. This will not change so get used to the skeleton crews and open your arms to the abused MA system. When someone on the line does get hurt of killed watch the lawsuits role in for inproper staffing. This propblem is nation wide not just Westchester County. Be safe and watch eachothers back out there.

Your entire post is critical of other career departments and full of misinformation...and then at the end you say "watch each others back out there"??? Are you kidding me? Yonkers is not undermanned and FDNY is "overmanned"?? Thanks for watching our backs, "brother"...

[helicopper 1,050]

In regards to Mount Vernons staffing issue, it is not just there's. Every career fire department is undermanned with the execption of Yonkers and FDNY. In my opinion FDNY is overstaffed. This will not change so get used to the skeleton crews and open your arms to the abused MA system. When someone on the line does get hurt of killed watch the lawsuits role in for inproper staffing. This propblem is nation wide not just Westchester County. Be safe and watch each others back out there.

Just out of curiosity, if most are understaffed and FDNY and YFD are overstaffed what do you consider appropriate staffing?

[firepunk 3]

I did not mean to anger anyone in the words that I said. I am for more manning without a dought. I never said that Yonkers is overstaffed. I stated that FDNY is. I am sorry and did not mean to offend anyone.

[firepunk 3]

Just out of curiosity, if most are understaffed and FDNY and YFD are overstaffed what do you consider appropriate staffing?

Appropriate staffing would be at least 1 officer and 3 ff ideal would be 4 ff and 1 officer per rig

[Pudge3311 5]

Unless every seat on every rig that roles out the door is filled, no one is overstaffed.