Fire destroys New Canaan home

[Geppetto 31]

Fire destroys New Canaan home

No injuries reported

By Devon Lash

Stamford Advocate

12/23/2008

NEW CANAAN - A fire destroyed a multi-million dollar home on Devonwood Lane Tuesday, despite five fire companies' efforts to cart water to the no-hydrant area....

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/ci_11300666

[ny10570 745]

New Cannan does a lot of work with Tankers. They run a pretty smooth operation. From the incident alerts, it sounds like this one gave them more trouble than usual.

[Tanker 10eng 140]

New Cannan does a lot of work with Tankers. They run a pretty smooth operation. From the incident alerts, it sounds like this one gave them more trouble than usual.

what do you mean troubles.... are there any other pics of the operations, ponds, etc... or more information ???

Wht gets me, these homes are designed and built for millions of dollars and yet, neither the Architect, builder or owner is willing to sink several water tanks or create a pond on the property with a dry hydrant.... so that if something like this were to happen, there is some water source right off the bat...

I was working on a home in Putnam Valley, and the owner and I spoke about creating a pond at the end of the driveway, directing the run off water into this pond ( maybe a 40 x 50 pond - 4 - 5 ft deep ), which will benefit him and his neighbors...

He was even going to be working on installing a dry hydrant...

But the money spent for this added protection could build a home theatre...

[firefighter36 52]

How about a home sprinkler system fed from a water tank or well? Wouldn't a suppression system like this pay for itself with insurance savings over time?

[Bnechis 3,961]

How about a home sprinkler system fed from a water tank or well? Wouldn't a suppression system like this pay for itself with insurance savings over time?

Both sprinklers and a pond can save more than they cost, but they both need to be rated. That means the sprinklers need to meet NFPA and be certified & the pond must have a minimum abount of water (often 30,000 gal) plus be certified as all weather (by an engineer).

[firefighter36 52]

Capt. Nechis, can the NFPA compliance of these systems be certified by a private contractor or engineer? How is that determined?

Also, is the 30,000 gallon just for a pond? or would that be for a sprinkler system as well? Are there different amounts of water based on residential or commercial, or is it generic based on square footage?

Edited December 24, 2008 by mbendel36

[SageVigiles 1,194]

I know in New Fairfield, all new developments are required to build an underground tank for water supply. Its relatively inexpensive for them considering the profits they make on these monster homes.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Capt. Nechis, can the NFPA compliance of these systems be certified by a private contractor or engineer? How is that determined?

I believe yes, but I'm not completely sure. someone more up on the codes than I currently am should be able to answer that.

Also, is the 30,000 gallon just for a pond? or would that be for a sprinkler system as well? Are there different amounts of water based on residential or commercial, or is it generic based on square footage?

Thats the generic # that ISO calls for, for a single home or a many home development. Many insurance co. will allow smaller. But for a FD water source to cound for the community ISO requires 30,000

[antiquefirelt 994]

The obvious answer to the sprinkler question is the "new" NFPA 13R systems that can be installed by "certified" installers vs. a true sprinkler contractor. The system designs are pre-approved and the final layouts are certified by the company that sells the system and certifies its installers. Many of these systems can be installed using cpvc piping or pex tubing and can either be "stand alone" or part of your domestic water. For those areas without a public water supply, a tank in the basement with an electric pump is approved the sprinkler flow calcs are mush less than a full NFPA 13 system and usually can be as little as a single 300 gal. tank. The proliferation of these systems is integral to the adoption of the new ICC sprinkler mandates in 1 and family dwellings adopted for the drop dead date of 1/1/11. Again, these are specifically design for life safety in 1 and 2 family residential dwellings. The Home Fire Sprinkler Council website is an excellent resource for all thing Residential Sprinkler.

Have a Merry Christmas and be safe!

[ny10570 745]

what do you mean troubles.... are there any other pics of the operations, ponds, etc... or more information ???

http://www.emtbravo.net/index.php?showtopic=29275

They managed an interior attack until pulling crews due to structural instability. Then for nearly an hour they appear to be having some trouble getting water to the scene.

[eckyphats 0]

guys did a good job with what they had, only have 6-8 guys on a shift I believe, driveway was not plowed, fire had a big head start on them when they arrived, people need to understand if you are going to build 7000 sq foot houses 1 mile off the road in a non hydranted area, its not going to go out very fast

[markmets415 524]

Exactly; we call them the built to burn models

Edited December 25, 2008 by markmets415

[Guest]

There were six guys on duty. The engine got stuck at the mouth of the unplowed driveway. Members had to hand stretch 250 feet of 2 1/2 just to get to the front door' in deep snow. than hook up the whye and add another 250 feet 0f 1 3/4 attack hose. Than make entry and get to the third floor. They got water on the fire. This building was built with light weight wood truss with slate roof and started to fail. Crew was ordered out before failure. There was no acess for our ladder truck at the fire building. There was water from a good hydrant about 2500 feet away, just not the desired volume reaching the fire due to a 100 foot elevation. the relay pumper helped this.

Edited December 31, 2008 by car11

[jcoppola 52]

There were six guys on duty. The engine got stuck at the mouth of the unplowed driveway. Members had to hand stretch 250 feet of 2 1/2 just to get to the front door' in deep snow. than hook up the whye and add another 250 feet 0f 1 3/4 attack hose. Than make entry and get to the third floor. They got water on the fire. This building was built with light weight wood truss with slate roof and started to fail. Crew was ordered out before failure. There was no acess for our ladder truck at the fire building. There was water from a good hydrant about 2500 feet away, just not the desired volume reaching the fire due to a 100 foot elevation. the relay pumper helped this.

You bring a great point out in your post. The roof was indeed slate tile over lightweight wood construction. I witnessed the tiles collapsing into the roof with my own eyes. The New Canaan people that got there first due took an enormous beating, as a matter of fact, one who was there and happens to be a personal friend told me that had there been just a few more hands initially, (Norwalk was essentially 2nd due dept with an Engine and a Truck on scene) more could have been done. This was a loser from the beginning...huge house built with crap lightweight wood trusses and lumber, set off the road, no hydrants, long UNPLOWED driveway staggered response...you can go on and on. Everyone should know that New Canaan personnel managed to get what looked like some pretty expensive art out of the house before it was consumed by the ridiculously large body of fire occurring. I, for one, was impressed by that effort. Norwalk will continue to assist New Canaan whenever they need it, but I think it is time to add Norwalk or Stamford to the runcards for automatic mutual aid to the town of New Canaan. We could always be turned back if not needed.

Joe C.

[ny10570 745]

There were six guys on duty. The engine got stuck at the mouth of the unplowed driveway. Members had to hand stretch 250 feet of 2 1/2 just to get to the front door' in deep snow. than hook up the whye and add another 250 feet 0f 1 3/4 attack hose.

There was water from a good hydrant about 2500 feet away, just not the desired volume reaching the fire due to a 100 foot elevation. the relay pumper helped this.

Way to work gents. Definitely had the deck stacked against you.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

"This place got a pool"?

"Pool and a pond... Pond be good for you".

Just had to put that in. From a very famous movie.

Happy New Year to all. BE SAFE!

[Tanker 10eng 140]

by NO MEANS am I trying to put blame on anyone, but I have a few questions... The rig got stuck in the driveway in the snow.... did they have Chains on the tires or On spots.. ??? I am a stong believer of the old fashion chains, so I am wondering...

When the volume from the hydrant, 2500 feet away was undesirable... did you then put in the relay pumper or was it put in place while laying out hose... ??? we also have had to toss a rig into the line, so I am wondering....

I know whats its like to deal with mother nature during calls and am only trying to get advise for future stuff, not point blame, like others may...

Being a roofing contractor, and have worked with slate and heavy tile systems, what type of light weight wood construction did they use ??? I normally see allot of gluelams and doug fir in this type of work, Never have I seen trusses.... any idea what was there ??

[Guest]

I will do my best to answer some questions. As for the roof From what I could see it was Doug fir. There were nail gusset plates on the ground burnt and curled up. You could see the truss work in the roof sections that were still standing. the falling slate tiles were a big problem. I'm shure there was engineered lumber up there too but I could not see. As for the chains The driveway was not plowed at all it was all ice and the drop chains would not grip. This was several days after the storm and the roads were clear. I cant answer about the relay I was not working with that opperation. I do know that once the opperation was working smoothly our fire flows improved. I was told that the hydrant was good but the total elevation to the fire was 100 feet. the relay pumper was 75 feet higher than the pumper at the hydrant. when the relay was working we were getting about 1000 GPM to the attack pumper. Pointing out something Joe said. I'm glad we were able to get some of the artwork out of this home. This artwork turns out is very valuable. Salvage is important if you can do it safely. As for pools or ponds there were not any.

Edited December 31, 2008 by car11