A Truckie On A Hot Tin Roof

[x635 4,066]

How would you go about ventilating this structure?

[SageVigiles 1,194]

That would be tough, with the power lines that close to the house, you'd be hard pressed to get your aerial device close enough to work from there. I'd probably only ventilate that from the safety of an aerial or platform, but you'd need a pretty good chauffeur to get you within working distance.

[x129K 1,393]

Since it is only a one story building, I'd opt to work off of a ground ladder, using a 6 foot steel hook to try to pry up the top section peices. (it appears to be 2 sections) Bang on the seam to make a purchase, then ram the head of the hook up under the bottom of the top section, then pry and push.

If that failed, perhaps a rotary saw and metal cutting blade from an aerial device, which looks tough due to the overhad wires....

Edited February 26, 2009 by x129K

[FFPCogs 863]

Depending on conditions upon arrival, start with horizontal venting. If insufficient put a crew on the roof to cut or peel back the tin sections as needed as close as safely possible over the fire area. While yes this is a different type of roofing material the same basic ventilation principles apply as with any other peaked roof PD. Rafter size/spacing appears to allow for a roof team, same as a wood/shingle roof, but conditions will ultimately dictate the viability of vertical vent ops should they be required.

Stay Safe

Cogs

[nwpfd390 2]

I'd go with horizontal ventilation first then prob go with x129k's idea with prying it off or just cutting it. For me the ariel would be one of the last things to do just because of those wires. I would put up an extension ladder and a roof ladder. Unless the C side was open to get the ariel in but other wise I would not mess with wires hanging as low as they are.

[Guest]

Depends on the situation I would probably go with horizontal with a positive pressure fan at the proper time

[sklov5949 23]

I wouldn't bother with trying to "get the roof". If the fire is below the roof or in the attic space pulling the ceilings would be a lot easier and safer.

[tdt560 1]

Depends on the situation I would probably go with horizontal with a positive pressure fan at the proper time

That's what I was thinking also, I have tried prying and cutting a metal roof before and it doesn't always work as planned it is also best done from a tower bucket wich doesn't really seem feasible or wise here. Like JHK said depending upon the situation I would go with horizontal ventilation and perhaps a properly deployed ppv. This is how not to use ppv http://www.vententersearch.com/?p=419

That above video is a must see, and that is also a great site for those of you that have never been there and it is updated every few days.

[FiftyOnePride 100]

Ground ladders, try to open it up without getting on the roof - via what x129k described.

[TCD0415 26]

Remember, if you go with Ground Ladders, be careful with the Roof Ladder. The Hooks on the tip may not dig in as well as if working on a typical Asphalt / Wood roof. I think I remember an article (Maybe FE or FHA) where this happened during a drill and the hooks did not bite into the metal and someone went for a ride.......... Be Careful

[FFPCogs 863]

Well I seem to be in the minority here about putting guys on the roof. My experiences have been that a roof team can open up a tin/metal roof so long as the support underneath is stable, just as with "regular" vertical ventilation. I have done so at both drills and under fire conditions on a number of occasions. Opening up has been accomplished by cutting in some cases, but usually by prying the roofing material away from the rafters and peeling it back. Either way, it's been done with little or no major problems when I've attempted it. I have also found that attempting to pry the roofing material from a portable ladder alone is difficult at best and usually not worth the effort since the reach from the ladder is not adequate to get near the peak.

Ditto TCDO415's point on roof ladders

Stay Safe

Cogs

Edited February 26, 2009 by FFPCogs

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Trying pry the metal sheets off sounds like a valid idea, but the issue that still remains is that if the fire is in a room...then what? You have no way to push the ceiling down to complete the opening. If the fire is in the attic I don't think I would commit guys to the roof...the rafters will be involved at that point being they appear to be unprotected and the metal is nothing more then a frying pan. This is where trying to pull some sheets off might be an option...but as pointed out you may need some pretty good force and you better make sure your locked in while pulling or the sheet may be there and you'll hit the ground or your rotator cuff will end up in another county. A good aggressive stretch and push by the engine company in most of your departments I bet results in a high percentage of fires being extinguished prior to the Truck company being able to finish opening up. Remember the saying..."its not what I CAN do...its what I SHOULD do." As a truck guy...I always want to be able to make every effort to "get to the roof." But its not always feasible, safe or the smartest thing to do...

585 brings one of the best points to the table about the roof ladder. Be very cautious when stepping onto it if you decide to go that route as the hooks will have little bite. This goes for all metal roofs, particularly the pre fab ones we see on banks and fast food restaurants. Their low pitch can be deceiving. As he pointed out some training buildings have those roofs and I believe the incident he is referring to was in CA where a FF fell after the hooks slipped over the peak.

[Tanker 10eng 140]

From the picture, it seems the rafters are nothing more the 2x4's and then the metal roof is applied directly over with no horizontal sleepers... if the roof ladder is not wide enough to span over 2 rafters, you may put the ladder on 1 rafter and with the tin roof, the roof ladder will twist and could cause the FF to loose their balance...

I would thing twice before going on this... the rust is not a good sign, so the panels may also be weaker, then they were when originally installed...

[Bnechis 3,961]

Get the Jet Axe....................................

[Guest SQUADco119]

Great topic. Just make an agressive push inside and horizontal ventilation seems to be the best approach.

[weaselff 6]

I say let it burn, looks like a 3rd world shack. Was this pic even taken in America? Maybe the Mississippi Delta or New Orleans? In a lifesaving op, I'd say quick horizontal ventilation then charge in with the 1.75"!

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Weasel, I'd have to basically agree with what you're saying. Definitely a smash and grab job, not something I'd want to be committing or digging into for the long haul. Get the people out and do what you can to the fire in the process, otherwise... eh, I'm not sure if I wanna risk my crew in what essentially is a giant charcoal grill.

[ny10570 745]

If the fire is in the attic space then the integrity of the roof can't be trusted. If the fire is below the ceiling then horizontal ventilation should suffice.

[FiftyOnePride 100]

If the fire is in the attic space then the integrity of the roof can't be trusted. If the fire is below the ceiling then horizontal ventilation should suffice.

I agree, but if it weren't in that space, and since we have no aerial here in M-town is why I would prefer ground ladders.

I thank everyone for their advice because this isn't something I had really put in-depth thought into previous to this post, so it has been very insightful. Not to say I haven't thought about it - I hope y'all understand what I mean.

Edited February 27, 2009 by FiftyOnePride

[Guest]

Personally, I would think this should be treated just like a mobile home fire would be treated, which has recently been discussed. We are seeing a lightweight, cheaply built structure with a roof with very questionable integrity. Horizontal ventilation would seem to be the best here, for safety and simplicity. A few well placed vent holes cut in the side, or a few key windows broken should vent that fire well for an interior attack if conditions condone one.

[x129K 1,393]

I agree, but if it weren't in that space, and since we have no aerial here in M-town is why I would prefer ground ladders.

Just call us...............

[FiftyOnePride 100]

Just call us...............

I'll remember it.

[mfire 2]

How would you go about ventilating this structure?

It seems to be just a one story building, by just looking at the surrounding buildings. I would not worry about vertical ventilation at all. Make an aggressive interior attack with horizontal ventilation. Have a truck company open up the ceilings inside and knock the fire down. Too me, there does not seem to be much benefit to placing men on the roof for the amount of ventilation they will be able to acheive. You can get just as much if not more ventilation by horizontal vent in this situation.

[Guest Rogue Rescue]

We carry a speed brace and sockets to take this sort of iron off (most roofs in Oz are like this)... If you take out the screws at the bottom from a ground ladder then a couple hits from a sledge hammer half way up the sheet and it will bend easily in half to create a nice 3foot square hole.