State cites Mohegan Lake Fire District for labor violations

[Geppetto 31]

By Robert Marchant

Journal News

October 4, 2009

The Mohegan Lake Fire District has been issued violations by the state Department of Labor amid criticism from union firefighters that understaffing has led to injuries and risks to public safety.

The Labor Department cited nine serious violations against Mohegan Lake regarding the use and maintenance of respirators in the department, as well as finding fault with its alleged failure to follow state guidelines on training and evaluations regarding the "two-in/two-out" policy to firefighting....

http://www.lohud.com/article/20091004/NEWS...abor-violations

[Bnechis 3,961]

How many other depts. are also in violation of labor laws? I can think of a number in westchester.

[jack10562 414]

Continuing along the lines of the (mis)use of respirators, there has been plenty of photographic evidence right here, of individuals operating at scenes with a mask, and with what appears to be facial hair in excess of what is permitted.

This particular infraction would fall under two categories: A) the respirator operator is supposed be accountable for knowledge of the facial hair allowance, (supposedly) covered during mandatory annual OSHA respirator refresher training; and: B ) the officer in charge of his personnel at a scene should know if a member is in violation of the facial hair requirements, and prohibit said member from operating with a respirator while in violation of aforementioned requirements, or possibly be held liable for any injury which may occur to any members operating under his command in violation of OSHA requirements. "But, hey, I get a good seal...."

And, of course, the State Labor Department just happened to come along and check Mohegan's records...

[ajsbear 11]

And how many people walk around without the waist belt fastened? I seen that in scene pictures of both volunteer and career departments.

[x129K 1,393]

And how many people walk around without the waist belt fastened? I seen that in scene pictures of both volunteer and career departments.

[IzzyEng4 427]

And how many people walk around without the waist belt fastened? I seen that in scene pictures of both volunteer and career departments.

Sorry brother AJS, but this is more serious than using the "waist belt". When it goes before a labor board granted yes proper donning of SCBA is looked at, but what you say is only a small part of it. The problem is more than likely concerning the age and conditions of the SCBA and how that particular band is supposed to be used. Trust me, coming from an OSHA state (CT has its own OSHA office that exceeds the federal standards) the are looking at a wide range here especially if its under labor laws. Not knocking you at all but it definitely more that what is being described.

But at the same time those employed at LMFD are going through the same staffing problems as other departments (including where I work) throughout the nation. lets hope the problems are corrected and everyone looks out for the future.

[x635 4,066]

For as long as I can remember, there's always been drama in Mohegan. There's a long standing rift between career and volunteers. Honestly, both "sides" of the department have excellent, experienced, dedicated and well trained responders. Despite the rift, Mohegan has always done a great job protecting it's citizens and being progressive with public education.

Both sides need to embrace the fact that there going to both be around for a while, and come up with a comprehensive plan to address working together safely for the future. The volunteers should be supporting a fair contract for the careeer firefighters, one that would keep the career firefighters safe and compensated appropriately. In turn, the career firefighters should be looking for ways to better work with the volunteers to address it's staffing needs. Idealistically, every engine in Mohegan would be fully staffed including a Paramedic on each engine, but that is not going to happen anytime soon. I know this is basically a "turf war", but it really needs to come to an end.

I know that career role in Mohegan orignated by giving jobs to vetrans during the depression era to take the trucks to calls, but times have changed since then.

Both sides need to stop finding ways to work apart, and start finding ways to work together.

[Bnechis 3,961]

this is more serious than using the "waist belt".

What was the number 1 serious violation that was issued? It was failure to meet the 2in - 2 out standard as required by law. How big a deal could this be?

Since the law (29CFR1910.134) that requires 2in/2out goes into effect in an IDLH environment, that may mean that incipient fires do not meet the level (but one must still arrive at the scene with enough personnel to meet the standard).

If a dept. (career, combo or vol.) can not place 5-6 members at the scene of a working structure fire to meet the standard, then they are not a fire dept.

I have written before on how depts don't meet NFPA 1710 (minimum of 16 ff's/off's to a residential fire) and ISO (12+1 career - 36+1 volunteer) but how sad is this that the State of New York claims that LMFD can not put 5 interior firefighters at the scene of an actual fire.

How many depts in Westchester are in the same boat? I can think of a number of depts. Now what is the leadership going to do about it?

Since LMFD is a district, it means that 5 commissioners swore an oath that they would protect the community, now if they can not guarantee a response that meets this minimum standard, then they need to reevaluate the entire dept. and they have a legal obligation to their employees (which under law includes the volunteers).

[Remember585 815]

I don't get it, personally. Every time I have ever been to a fire scene in Mohegan there's been dozens of personnel there. Most often you see the majority being volunteer with the three or four Career guys on scene, depending on the number of apparatus.

Barry, does the 5-6 guys you're talking about have a time frame in which they have to be on location? If that's the case, part of the problem would be the size of the district itself. If the 2nd Due Engine is coming out of Hollowbrook for a fire on the southern end of Croton Avenue, that's got to be a ten plus minute ride.

As for the SCBA issue, one can only imagine exactly what the violation is. Facial hair, unit age, upkeep, etc. Like it's been said, how many departments would also find themselves getting fined for similar problems?

I am waiting to see the State start knocking on our doors to see who is meeting the Rope Law requirements. I would bet dollars to donuts many departments haven't even done their needs assessments.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Barry, does the 5-6 guys you're talking about have a time frame in which they have to be on location?

The law does not have a time frame other than, that many must be onscene BEFORE any members can enter the structure (unless their is a confirmed life in jeopardy)

As for the SCBA issue, one can only imagine exactly what the violation is. Facial hair, unit age, upkeep, etc. Like it's been said, how many departments would also find themselves getting fined for similar problems?

The biggest OSHA issues with SCBA, include; facial hair, annual fit testing (with records), medical clearance, 2in 2out, training, maintenance, training and sops for everything.

I am waiting to see the State start knocking on our doors to see who is meeting the Rope Law requirements. I would bet dollars to donuts many departments haven't even done their needs assessments.

The respiratory standard is the single most critical one. I dont think you will see PESH showing up for the rope one, until a failure with injury or death (and then they look at everything). I would bet that 99% of depts that already bought equipment and deployed it still did not do a risk assessment 1st (at least not to the standard).

[Guest bagbros]

http://www.moheganfire.com/index.cfm?fs=ne...amp;News_ID=306

If you look at the link above about mohegan responding mutual aid to montrose, a few pictures down there is a chief and a firefighter, in the basement of a house fire that was an exterior operation. They were in the basement with no masks on and from the looks of the pictures, there is no protection of a hoseline. If you're a chief you should know better! I thought the idea of the Fasteam was to be there for the firefighters that are actively fighting the fire not to go "show boating" for a picture. Also in my opinion, shouldn't the chief of a mutual aid department be at the command post to act as a liason between the IC and his own members? It makes me question if this dept does in fact have a policy in place for wearing an SCBA/respirator in an IDLH atmosphere.

[abaduck 123]

http://www.moheganfire.com/index.cfm?fs=ne...amp;News_ID=306

If you look at the link above about mohegan responding mutual aid to montrose, a few pictures down there is a chief and a firefighter, in the basement of a house fire that was an exterior operation. They were in the basement with no masks on and from the looks of the pictures, there is no protection of a hoseline. If you're a chief you should know better! I thought the idea of the Fasteam was to be there for the firefighters that are actively fighting the fire not to go "show boating" for a picture. Also in my opinion, shouldn't the chief of a mutual aid department be at the command post to act as a liason between the IC and his own members? It makes me question if this dept does in fact have a policy in place for wearing an SCBA/respirator in an IDLH atmosphere.

With respect, I think you're being a bit nitpicky on not much evidence:

1. So, the FAST are out and about and doing their own sizeup. Isn't that exactly what they're supposed to be doing?

2. *A* Chief is doing it. We don't know if they were the only Chief with the FAST, or if they were acting as FAST leader. We don't know what the liaison arrangements with Montrose were.

3. From the photo they don't appear to be in an IDLH atmosphere - the fire at the top of the stair is probably sucking in a fair gale of fresh air, it looks pretty clear to me. Looks like they ducked about 3-4ft into the hallway to confirm the stair was unusable for access or egress. Could it have all turned to excrement fast? Yes, there could have been collapse/flashover/backdraft/you-name-it. Should they have been on air? Maybe, I'm not experienced enough to question the judgment of a FAST Chief.

[NWFDMedic 58]

Thirty-one career guys and the SCBA aren't being properly maintained??? That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

It sounds like the violations cited were more related to training than manpower. The article never says that they failed to use 2-in/2-out, it says that they failed to maintain the proper training and evaluation of the standard's use. I cannot imagine that they are rolling up to a scene without 4 firefighters.

[NWFDMedic 58]

Also in my opinion, shouldn't the chief of a mutual aid department be at the command post to act as a liason between the IC and his own members?

How many chiefs do you need at a command post? If you have 6 departments operating, do you honestly think there should be 6 white hats sitting there instead of performing other tasks? If you have proper communications, an incoming department chief should be assigned a position (if incident command has spread that far) or he should be given a task by command or operations. At that point, he can either supervise his men or act as a member of the team, depending on the task and manpower.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Thirty-one career guys and the SCBA aren't being properly maintained??? That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

It sounds like the violations cited were more related to training than manpower. The article never says that they failed to use 2-in/2-out, it says that they failed to maintain the proper training and evaluation of the standard's use. I cannot imagine that they are rolling up to a scene without 4 firefighters.

It doesn't make sense NWFD because there aren't 31 professional Firefighters in that department. Proper maintenance goes well beyond what your normal functionality test goes. Hydrostatic testing, respirator flow testing and calibration are just starters on top of fit testing. Also within the respiratory protection standard is the requirement of a policy addressing emergency communications and how the agency is going to handle of such. So there are numerous things that could be considered in the very limited information given. I applaud anyone who does what they think is right to protect all members of an organization regardless of what rifts, debate etc goes on. x635 you got great points but I also work in that environment and I only wish I could truly post why so many things get help back or why things aren't better.