At This Time?

[mreis95 77]

I have been hearing a lot of fire departments when they either give directions to incoming apparatus, updates to dispatch or other situations the person speaking says what they need to and then finishes with "At this time" It isn't once in a while but almost every transmission.

Is there any reasoning for this, seems kind of unnecessary? We all know what time it is.

[IzzyEng4 427]

Being a former dispatcher, "At This time" usually is stated for the purpose of letting those know this is all the information we have right now and we are trying to get more. Unfortunately its one of those nomenclatures that is used way too often.

[xfirefighter484x 234]

Hahaha, I am glad I am not the only one who notices this happening alllllll the time...

[JetPhoto 626]

Just for that comment Nathan I will make sure I say that when your working LoL

[FDNY 10-75 640]

"At this time" is over used here, as is "be advised" both are pointless...

[antiquefirelt 994]

I have been hearing a lot of fire departments when they either give directions to incoming apparatus, updates to dispatch or other situations the person speaking says what they need to and then finishes with "At this time" It isn't once in a while but almost every transmission.

Is there any reasoning for this, seems kind of unnecessary? We all know what time it is.

That's funny, as this is a huge pet peeve of mine with our dispatch center. One might note that unless you say otherwise "At this time" is implied. Oddly the dispatch director complains about using too much air time and needing transmissions to be short and to the point, yet a third of the dispatchers use this phrase routinely.

[PC_420 28]

OMG I know... Two of the most useless phrases I've ever heard in my 8 years of dispatching. It's another fault of bad training.

[LTNRFD 266]

And then there is the request for the location of an apparatus......."engine XX what is your location right now?"

[firemoose827 324]

I see a lot of issues with our radio procedures as well. Lots of people use the "Be advised" line all the time here, I guess it just sounds cool to them or official. I also hear too many people say their department name before their identifier, but the identifier is designed to give all of the info the dispatcher needs. Take our engine for example, its designation is "2021". "20" is our dept designation, and "21" is the designation for engine, yet you hear it all the time "911 this is carlisle 2021 enroute." waste of air time if you ask me. Be advised though, I see too many issues with radio procedures but not enough effort to alleviate these issues at this time. (hehehe)

[TimesUp 148]

Be advised k we are using one engine at this time k. I think k is used as "is that ok?" just something I hear often.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

How about:

-engine 987 to control

-controls on engine 987

-engine 987 responding 123 main street

with the digital trunk radios all of the apparatus now have with the CAD identifiers is it even necessary now to sign on to control? usually I just go "engine 987 to control, engine 987 responding to 123 main street." Is that off base or too much?

[gamewell45 258]

I guess if the over-use of radio nomenclatures is our biggest problem in the fire service, then life isn't too bad.

[mstrang1 213]

I believe the "k" is an end of message signifier, similar to "over" in CB talk.

bvfdjc- I prefer to say "dispatch, this is engine 9" instead of vice versa. That way dispatch knows I will be calling them. It reduces the "dispatch to last unit calling" incidences.

[OLDGUY19 6]

Be advised at this time k trucks up steppin out Roger over out Boy am I confused

[Just a guy 493]

K was always supposed to signal the end of a transmission but it has taken on a life of it's own and has come to mean a lot of things.

As far as " At this time", I know myself and a lot of other cops will say At this time when HQ will ask if the situation is under control meaning that the situation is under control right now but it's a shaky under control. Most cops when they hear at this time will start rolling toward the location just in case.

[PEMO3 523]

How about:

-engine 987 to control

-controls on engine 987

-engine 987 responding 123 main street

with the digital trunk radios all of the apparatus now have with the CAD identifiers is it even necessary now to sign on to control? usually I just go "engine 987 to control, engine 987 responding to 123 main street." Is that off base or too much?

Digital Identifiers are not always reliable. Standard radio procedure dictates that a radio unit identifies itself at the beginning of a transmission. Additionally, other factors are involved. Portable X from Truck 3 may be used on Engine 4. Not using a verbal unit identification would have the dispatch center assume that the Engine 4 was transmitting and not Truck 3. Additionally, if it were an emergency transmission field units may not have the luxury of seeing your identifier but can hear your unit identifier.

[Bnechis 3,961]

And then there is the request for the location of an apparatus......."engine XX what is your location right now?"

From Airplane: "Gate #1, Gate #2, Gate #3, Gate #4, Gate #5.....etc.

Consider the Miricle o nthe Hudson Crash, every few minites the command post moved down river to keep up with the incident.

[wraftery 1,275]

The "K" thing has been around for a long time. Somehow I would say it had its roots in Morse code. Using Morse (in the Navy it was radio, semaphore, flashing light)K meant "I an finished...it's your turn to talk." Same as saying "Over" in voice communications.

"K" bugs me too, but the one I really cringe at is "Return to quarters when ready." Does that Chief really think that lieutenant is so dumb that he will leave his tools on the lawn and 400' of hose in the street because he was told to return?

[PFDRes47cue 653]

bvfdjc- I prefer to say "dispatch, this is engine 9" instead of vice versa. That way dispatch knows I will be calling them. It reduces the "dispatch to last unit calling" incidences.

Up at school (St. Lawrence County), we us the "You are, I am," method. I agree with you that is works well and very rarely do I hear people respond and say they don't know who is contacting them. However, back home (Westchester) I oftne hear it. By saying, "Central Dispatch, this is Potsdam Fire," Central Dispatch hears us and listens in. Opposed to, "Potsdam Fire to Central Dispatch," By the time Central Dispatch hears they are being contacted, they have missed which unit is contacting them. So at this time, I will use ,"You are, I am."

[IzzyEng4 427]

"K" was typed at the end of a morse code message to signify the end of a message. This is a carry over from the old telegraph fire alarm systems. Yes, in side the big red box was a key, or paddle as it is also called, and on a closed system where the boxes were connected back to the "Control Office" and send a message.

K is typed out "- . -" (Dah-dit-dah) and is much shorter that typing out O-V-E-R (--- ...- . .-.) or E-N-D (. -. -..), thus making communications much faster. "K" is used in place of "go ahead with your reply, I am done sending the message" to the receiver.

Yes sometimes it does get overused also, it only supposed to be used at the end of a person's transmission, not every sentence.

[LTNRFD 266]

Roger Murdock: Flight 2-0-9'er, you are cleared for take-off.

Captain Oveur: Roger!

Roger Murdock: Huh?

Tower voice: L.A. departure frequency, 123 point 9'er.

Captain Oveur: Roger!

Roger Murdock: Huh?

Victor Basta: Request vector, over.

Captain Oveur: What?

Tower voice: Flight 2-0-9'er cleared for vector 324.

Roger Murdock: We have clearance, Clarence.

Captain Oveur: Roger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?

Tower voice: Tower's radio clearance, over!

Captain Oveur: That's Clarence Oveur. Over.

Tower voice: Over.

Captain Oveur: Roger.

Roger Murdock: Huh?

Tower voice: Roger, over!

Roger Murdock: What?

Captain Oveur: Huh?

Victor Basta: Who?

[LTNRFD 266]

"K" was typed at the end of a morse code message to signify the end of a message. This is a carry over from the old telegraph fire alarm systems. Yes, in side the big red box was a key, or paddle as it is also called, and on a closed system where the boxes were connected back to the "Control Office" and send a message.

K is typed out "- . -" (Dah-dit-dah) and is much shorter that typing out O-V-E-R (--- ...- . .-.) or E-N-D (. -. -..), thus making communications much faster. "K" is used in place of "go ahead with your reply, I am done sending the message" to the receiver.

Yes sometimes it does get overused also, it only supposed to be used at the end of a person's transmission, not every sentence.

And when things go bad it's --- ... ..... .. - !!!!!!!

Edited March 16, 2011 by LTNRFD

[efdcapt115 1,511]

....."Alright, 10-4, K."

Edited March 16, 2011 by efdcapt115

[wraftery 1,275]

Iy was one of those stormy nites, every FD in the County running on Auto Alarms,wires down, trees on houses and so on. You couldn't get a second of air time with all the bull poopoo on the radio. County Control isssues a 10-10 (Emergency Transmissions Only) but County Control keeps its bull piling up with things like directions to addresses going. (Jeez, get a map or stop at a gas station)

A Capt calls his Hq on the air and the conversation went like this:

Capt: Car 210 to EFD

EFD: Car 210, be advised there is a 10-10 in effect

Capt:I'll go along with that, but somebody should advise County Control. Sounds like they didn't get the word.

[JBE 328]

I don't see a problem with Be Advised. It's a way to make a point without going all bells and whistles. "Be Advised, you got another incident going on nearby, watch for other units responding in." K is either over used, misused, or not used at all. I'm a big stickler on Keep it simple. Sometimes, one in the dispatch office has to spoonfeed, or lead field units by the hand. At this time?? Ehhhh depends on the context of the situation. Note I am keeping my comments brief as so not to start an online pi$$ing contest between field folks and behind the scenes folks.

I could go on for a week with stuff that gets overused, underused, said improperly, etc. That's up to the supervisor or head of the communications center to solve the problem, or set particular policy. It's also up to the White hats out in the field to enforce the policy as well.

[JetPhoto 626]

It is suggested in Dutchess to call out by using your department name and unit identifier i.e Chelsea 35-11

This is so if people key up and start talking their identification is not all cut off because the repeater system has not open up yet. So if the dispatcher doesn't hear your department name they will at least get your numeric ID, otherwise they may only hear "11" responding. OK who's "11" is responding?

A personal pet peeve of mine is when people key up and say (as an example)

Chelsea 35-11 to 911

911 is on

Chelsea 35-11 responding

Put your message in one statement! If the dispatcher didn't hear you they will ask who's calling or replay the audio.

If the dispatchers are busy, don't expect them to answer you back in .0001 seconds, give them a moment alot goes on in the dispatch center to make sure everything is covered.

Remember KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid

[JBE 328]

I'll echo that, I remember in my Lake Carmel days, we were required to say, "Lake Carmel 17-2-1 to 40 Control" (tells you how long I've been out of there), 17-2-1 responding. I wanted to expand a little bit on at this time. Manholes and wires down. It's a storm, snow storm, wind storm rain storm. Wires and manholes all day. Units are asking for Con Ed, or an ETA. Usually an ETA. Here's where At this time comes in handy.

"Engine XX to Manhattan, K"

"Engine XX, K"

"Manhattan, we got smoke pushing from a manhole under pressure. Can you get us an ETA from Con Ed, K??"

Now mind you, this has been going on for hours and Con Ed doesn't have a crew available, anywhere.

"Engine XX, be advised, Con Ed is not providing ETA's at this time, K"

"Engine XX, 10-4"

Meaning, you'll be lucky if you see them before sunrise tomorrow. However, this may change, and they may have crews coming in to handle the extra work load. So, we may say "At this time" "Be advised", I threw that in as a way to emphasize the point. This is a way to let the unit operating, and hopefully other units operating in other places know, that, just inform us where it is, and we will give it to Con Ed. Because God knows when they're gonna show up.

Edited March 17, 2011 by JBE

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Digital Identifiers are not always reliable. Standard radio procedure dictates that a radio unit identifies itself at the beginning of a transmission. Additionally, other factors are involved. Portable X from Truck 3 may be used on Engine 4. Not using a verbal unit identification would have the dispatch center assume that the Engine 4 was transmitting and not Truck 3. Additionally, if it were an emergency transmission field units may not have the luxury of seeing your identifier but can hear your unit identifier.

I think Jetphoto summed up what I was trying to say pretty well. Keep it to one message is what I meant. When I am responding on my piece of apparatus and I call in responding, with the County Trunking System they know exactly who I am, I don't need to hail them then communicate with them, if they didn't get what I said, they will ask, plain and simple. If I am wrong, please anyone from 60 please let me know, either here or the next time I call in.

[mstrang1 213]

In Stamford, we have MDTs, so we just touch the screen for responding, on scene (a fire call gets a size up on air), and clear the call. Also, this can be used for departing for secondary, arriving secondary (both usually the ER), in service, out of service, etc. This greatly reduces air traffic.

[Bnechis 3,961]

I think Jetphoto summed up what I was trying to say pretty well. Keep it to one message is what I meant. When I am responding on my piece of apparatus and I call in responding, with the County Trunking System they know exactly who I am, I don't need to hail them then communicate with them, if they didn't get what I said, they will ask, plain and simple. If I am wrong, please anyone from 60 please let me know, either here or the next time I call in.

Dispatch may know with the identifier, but what about other responding units?