jack10562

This is an interesting thread. IMO it really does a lot to demonstrate the mindset held by many members of the Fire Service in this region which is such a disservice to those we are sworn to protect and to our own fellow Firefighters....with the exception of helicoppers question regarding manpower (and he is a cop, not a Firefighter), and one other question and answer in regard to White Plains manpower, the whole thread so far is all about how many apparatus respond, with no mention of personnel.
Guys, Firefighters put out fires...Firefighters who are adequately trained and certified for interior firefighting and physically capable. A certain amount and type of apparatus, of course, is necessary, however, listing how many apparatus respond to structure fires is not only worthless in terms of assessing a department's capabilities, it is misleading.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/madonna-badger-spared-details-fire-killed-3-daughters-amp-parents-article-1.997268
A salute to Mr. Lomer Johnson. A tear for Ms. Madonna Badger and the extended family. A prayer for these children taken so young, and an elderly couple the Johnsons, whose last act on earth would be one of heroism and selflessness.

Thoughts and prayers for all.
I wholeheartedly endorse utilizing critical incident stress management especially for those exposed to the tragedy first hand.
Someone may think they're OK, but having the incident fresh in everyone's mind is the best opportunity to hold a debriefing.
For many, just having been at a scene like this is sufficient to create elevated stress, even if they didn't witness the fatalities, and it's a perfectly normal reaction. First responders are generally thought to be tough professionals but It's important to deal with the stress as soon as possible.
The mental images one has will never, ever, go away, it just has to be addressed and understood.

Why is it that politicians of all stripes find it so easy to reduce or eliminate essential public safety services and can never seem to find other non-essential resources to cut for savings?! I don't get it.

Merry Christmas Brothers and Sisters in the EMTBravo family!
We all have much to be thankful for this Christmas Season.
Hope everybody finds a reason today to feel blessed.
If you happen to be home alone, get on out into the world today and do something good for somebody.
Those "lucky" enough to be working a shift, may you be safe and blessed, today and all days coming in the new year.
And those fortunate enough to be home with your family, I hope you look at your loved ones and don't ever take them for granted. The amount of joy you can feel for having the blessing of people around you, those who love you, is limitless!

Date: 12/25/2011
Time: 04:51
Location: Next to 2241 Shippan Av (on Shippan Point at tip of peninsula)
Frequency: Stamford Trunked
Units Operating: E4, E1, E2, E3, E5 (RIT), T1, R1, U4 (Command), E6, T2 (2nd Alarm), M1, M3, M901 (EMS Supervisor), M4, M92 (Fly Car), U7 (Safety), FM102, SPD: 3B, 3A, 8S2(Sgt), 2C, 2B, 8D (Lt/Shift Commander), E7, E9 (Relocated to 1 Co), E34 (Replaced E9 at 1Co) E7, T3 (Third Alarm),T45 (Relocated to 1Co), E8 (Relocated to 4Co), E34 (Relocated to 1Co), Greenwich/Sound Beach E51 (Relocated to 3Co).
Weather Conditions: Cold & Clear
Description Of Incident: Initial call from next door neighbor for house fire. Extra Engine sent due to closer units clearing from previous call at time of report. Multiple calls received prior to 1st due engine arriving.
E4 on scene reporting 2 1/2 story wood frame residence with heavy fire on A/D corner. U4 arrived on scene and called for 2nd alarm due to reports of multiple trapped residents on 2nd floor. SPD reported 2 elderly and 3 children trapped. Initial EMS response was 2 Ambulances (1 for victims & 1 for responders), M901 called for all EMS units (Additional Ambulance & Fly Car) to respond. Greenwich EMS dispatched on separate call prior to arriving at town line for stand by. Southwest C-Med coordinating EMS move ups. GFD, TRFD, BFD & SPFD toned out for station coverage due to E6 operating & E7,E8,E9,E34 & T45 relocating to downtown district. C1 (Chief of Department on scene).
U4 transmitted at 05:26, that this would be an Exterior Defensive operation.
Third Alarm called at 05:32. Further units relocated to 1Co.
Reporters: AFS1970
Writer: AFS1970

Another grammer cop. LOL
Right now we are aware that some members are experiencing technical difficulties trying to access the chat feature.
Be advised it is being looked into, and hopefully we will be able to resume full operation, shortly.
Thank you for your patience.

First, how often do members honestly question their own depts (I dont mean here, I mean in general)? We have all seen departments with 1 man rigs or "paging for any available driver & crew" ....no response, but no one in the dept has an issue with that, its ok because "we know whats best in our community"?
Second,how different are communities? Are there specific needs that different? Great Britain has 1 design for an engine. It is used in 4 different countries (England, No.Ireland, Scotland & Wales). They make it work from busy London to isolated islands. Is this best or would it be better to have a dozzen different designs....maybe. In the US we have 30,000 (or more) different designs because every community is unique.
In Germany they have about 10 different designs you can chose from, (more seating, bigger tank, bigger pump, etc.) But again they realize that very few communities are that different.
The level of standardization in GB is to the point that the same equipment is in the same compartment on every pump (engine). When there are special local needs they get a rescue to cover that. I got to watch the 1st day of field exersises at Morton-in-Marsh (the National Fire Service College). 6 brand new LT's from 4 countries pulled up (in an engine) to a fire in a burn building. they had never worked together before and they put almost every drill here I've ever seen to shame. They knew without even inspecting the rig where everything was and since they had all used the same SOP's they were able to gain entry, search and extingush the fire like they had been assigned to the same crew for years. We have companies in the same station that cant do that.
This is exactly why Westchester has more engines than NYC (and all our extra engines have no or substandard staffing). The leadership of every square mile here apparently knows more than the rest of the fire service in the nation.
We have 3 ladder companies (4 ladder trucks) and are surrounded by 6 departments that collectivly own 9 ladder trucks. Why cant we just use them? Maybe its because they do not have ladder companies? 5 of them run with only 1 firefighter, 2 run with only 2 firefighters and 2 are spares.
4 of those ladders are towers and every manufacturer, requires 3 firefighters to safely operate them (2 in the bucket, 1 at the turntable). Even state law says when that bucket is in smoke (IDLH) they need 2 FF's (in the bucket)but may only have 1. Its clear to me that the leaderships educated decisions are unacceptable. Why isnt everyone questioning this practice?
We have seen depts in this county that perchased vehicles to "improve" its insurance rating and the rating went up, because they do not understand what the rating standard is. We have seen depts buy trucks that do not fit into the fire station or are to heavy for the station or the bridges in town. We have seen depts buy tower ladders because every town in the parade has one and we dont (oh we also need to buy a smaller ladder because our members cant drive the big one). We have a lack of standardization that is so bad, that 1/2 the county is Rated a 9 by the insurance industry (on a 1-10 scale) That means on an open book test they scored below 10%.
I always liked the line: "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem". You come to a descusion board, but you do not want anyones opiniton. No wonder you are disapointed. Everyday we see and hear all of the problems in emergency services in Westchester and the problems have been getting worst for the last 30 years and anyone who dares to suggest change gets us all upset.
Even when negative discusions occure, information exchange occures and that can make for possitive outcomes. I often see great post from many on this board that will take the negative and refute it. There are many here who are either new to emergency services or has been isolated in there own system and have no idea what goes on in other places. Hopefully, even the negative will open there eyes just a little.
And so we are clear, I do have an agenda. Its to make sure that apparatus respond in a timely manor, with sufficient personnel & equipment and the proper training to reduce the number of injuries and deaths to our brothers and the community. One thing I have found in 30+ years, there are a lot of individuals who do not want that and will do what ever it takes to prevent it.

Hey wait a second. You're not allowed to have Bravado about this; even the guys that work it don't carry that!
Additionally, great post Cap Nechis. Reads like something out a textbook, complete with the perfect textbook photo; that van!
But hey let's face it. The history of the FDNY Rescues. It was more about the function than what they carried wasn't it? Wasn't a torch the most sophisticated piece of equipment for a long time? And I say this in absolutely no derogatory way. The mystique about a Rescue Company was because it carried guys like Tommy McTigue, and the culture of humility, although I'm quite sure many truckies from the FDNY would scream about that point.
And I have no qualms about showing the EFD Rescue or describing it a bit. However, there are many more stories in the big county, many more Rescues that carried even less than we did...and I'm talking manpower. lol

AFA are not always False Alarms. This is a big mistake in termonology.
A false Alarm is when there is no legit reason for the alarm. Smoke from cooking (burn popcorn in microwave), steam from the shower, dust from workers, candles, etc. The system did what it was designed to do, so its not a false alarm, its an accidental or unintentional alarm.
It is important that the public understands this so they do not ignor alarms in the future.

Lo Hud update news story:
http://www.lohud.com...ley-woman-found
Amazing Technology!

Thanks.
The R4 Dodge Van (there were a couple of them over the years) was what we had when I started. It was scary to drive since it was overloaded and had no cargo cage (If you stopped short, you would get the Jaws in the bak of your head).
In the 1950's we had a Civil Defense Rig

In 1991 we got our 1st "real" rescue

Shown above as Rescue 54 - Collapse Unit (which it was converted into after the 2009 SVI unit was purchased
R-54 & R-4 are full and while we dont have the ability to staff these units, the crews at Sta. #1 (and others) train regularly with both).

Is the image you were thinking about, it kind of looks like electrical sparks, I'm pretty sure it's just time-lapse exposure of burning debris falling.
Pretty cool, nonetheless.

I had the privilege of being Jeff's instructor on several occasions and can tell you he is one of the most dedicated and motivated students I've had and is a very capable firefighter who earned every single certification he has by far exceeding the minimum standard. I would work with Jeff any day.
To simply put it..you have to meet the standards. We can debate what the "minimum" standard is, but everyone who enters a course, I can assure you at a "minimum" is meeting the standard of the curriculum set forth by NY State and the NFPA.

From what I know, and I'm sure the chief can verify once he knows more on here is that we settled with the insurance company and are looking to move foward as fast as possible to replace our rig. We are obviously looking to KME to replace R35 and I have seen some drawings of possible replacements.
Will keep you posted as the info becomes available.

I read this thread yesterday and have been following the discussion for a day and now feel compelled to add my opinion. It is disappointing that a member of this site asks a simple question about the status of a piece of apparatus which has been placed out of service due to fire and the automatic responses that are generated turn immediately to why does this department need this truck?
The funny thing is that rarely are the one’s questioning the needs of (fill in the blank) Fire Department, at all associated with that department – so how would you know what their communities specific needs are?
As example, I wouldn’t question why one department – of which I have no affiliation with or knowledge of their needs - has 3 ladder trucks even though they are surrounded by departments with ladder trucks on every side of their community – because it’s not my place to. If that department has determined that is what they need to do their job, I trust that their leadership has made an educated decision and that they are not just stroking their egos.
Ironically, it’s double edged sword here as well; a northern department is questioned why so much mutual aid is needed at a house fire, but another department that is self-sufficient is accused of wasting tax payer dollars and questioned why they need this truck or that truck instead of using more mutual aid. It doesn’t make sense; it’s ludicrous.
There was an interesting article on here lately about the fire service and its changing nature; how departments are being asked to respond to new situations and different types of emergencies all the time. Proper response to these new challenges often requires newer tools, gear and equipment to effectively mitigate these hazards; which in turn often means purchasing a newer and larger truck to carry this equipment and get the job done.
So - why does this town need this truck? Because their membership and commissioners and potentially their insurance agency have determined it is necessary for their district and their firefighters to do their job effectively.
This, of course, is not the first time that others who think they know what is best for everyone else interject their own beliefs or who knows maybe even their envy at some other departments rolling stock and I’m sure it won’t be the last – but still it’s disappointing; it is one of the reasons I seldom participate on this site any longer.
Periodically someone on this site will post something about making this site what we want it to be – a place where positive discussion can take place and where people can learn. But that doesn’t happen; the forcing of agendas continues. Then there is the occasional thread that asks why member participation is down on this site and I think to myself in response to that question, I can’t imagine why someone would feel compelled to post something here when others with agendas, or egos, or envy, or whatever pick apart every detail of every call, decision and comment made. It really is disappointing.

Two basic issues: What is a Rescue Company and what is a Rescue Unit?
The Rescue Company is equipment (including transport) AND enough trained personnel that respond together and can perform a particular rescue function.
How much personnel is needed? This depends on the incident. FDNY has the best Rescue Staffing and their are many incidents that require additional Rescues, or trucks or squads to assist them.
The Rescue Truck. We have an issue because in Westchester a Rescue can be a regular van or a 24' tandum axle unit.


What is a Rescue? A light Rescue? Medium? Heavy?
If you own a 20'+ walk in rescue, but basicly only have the equipment to handle an MVA its not a "heavy rescue". A line I always get a kick out of is "Heavy Rescue is the capability of the company not the weight of the chassie"
We have truck companies that carry what I would equate to as the equipment for a light rescue unit (spreader, cutter, rams, cribbing, airbags, jacks and basic rope equipment). I have seen large rescues that do not carry much more. Infact often I see they do not carry enough basic cribbing to handle a car underride of a truck or school bus).
My 1st question to a chief when laying out a new rescue is what type of rescue calls do you plan on operating at?
Fire, MVA, Machinery, Water (surface, swift/flood, Ice, dive), heavy transport (truck, bus, train, aircraft, etc.), confined space, high angle, trench, building collapse, etc.
You can not carry everything you need on 1 vehicle to handle all of the above. This unit may respond to all of them, but you must decide what equipment you will put on this unit. And if you can't carry it, who does?
Much of this debate would go away if 60 Control had a list (that everyone saw) that listed rescues by capability (in terms of type of incidents).
As listed in the squad description, we also need to determine what staffing (including minimum training levels) needs to respond (FEMA calls this typing) with each type of unit (engine, ladder, rescue, etc.).
Also lets not get hung up with how many responders can ride in the rescue. Whats important is how many arrive with it and can operate as a company. There are many 2 seat heavy rescues, but they get another 4-6 responders in another vehicle.

What should you do when confronted with a situation such as this?
Attack the seat of the fire, or wait until it is more manageable, like after it comes down to you?
(Photographer(s): unknown)






Think "collapse zone"....

There are just a handful of these large turbines located on The Cape, however they no longer seem to have the widespread appeal they once initially enjoyed. It appears that very few if any land based installations will receive local approval anytime in the near future.
One controversial offshore project well into the permitting stages is Cape Wind, a proposed wind farm in Nantucket Sound consisting of 130 turbines capable of 420 MegaWatts of power generation.
I guess we'll need one of these:

What should you do when confronted with a situation such as this?
Attack the seat of the fire, or wait until it is more manageable, like after it comes down to you?
(Photographer(s): unknown)






Think "collapse zone"....

There are just a handful of these large turbines located on The Cape, however they no longer seem to have the widespread appeal they once initially enjoyed. It appears that very few if any land based installations will receive local approval anytime in the near future.
One controversial offshore project well into the permitting stages is Cape Wind, a proposed wind farm in Nantucket Sound consisting of 130 turbines capable of 420 MegaWatts of power generation.
I guess we'll need one of these:

Good call, or the other option:

Even at 565 mph, I suspect they may have an extended response time.

What should you do when confronted with a situation such as this?
Attack the seat of the fire, or wait until it is more manageable, like after it comes down to you?
(Photographer(s): unknown)






Think "collapse zone"....

No life hazard. Clear the area, let it burn , extinguish remaining fire on the ground once the pole no longer has a falling debris issue. Call in the utility who owns it to do any elevated stabilization and or final extinguishment.

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