jack10562

I would tend to agree with you. One can read between the lines in this story and see it for what it is. Was this not the same forum that recently went crazy over Whitney Houston? This forum had little trouble jumping to conclusions in that case. But, many are hesitant when it's a fellow FF/LEO/Medic, etc. Civil service is just like any other line of work. We have winners and losers, and some who made it onto the job who never should have.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2107888/The-day-exhausted-firefighters-battled-New-York-subway-blaze-1915.html

I just thought I would chime in re: Bnechis.
While we may not always agree, I always value an alternate opinion, especially one based on a wealth of education and experience. I often will check out a topic because I see he has posted on it.
The fire service, both locally and nationally is riddled with important issues affecting our delivery of services, not the least of which is manpower. Maybe someday the information and ideas exchanged and debated on this site will provide some practical solutions that get implemented for the benefit of the fire service and therefore the benefit of the citizens we serve.

Maybe i'm wrong...but if you ask me the article in question is more about the City Council and Mayor desiring a bit more authority and transparency over the Fire Department. Seems like the way it stands now the fire warden board is a bit antiquated and generally operates independently of the City Council....maybe that was fine 70 years ago, but its 2012...i don't see anything wrong with what the City Council is looking for. Especially when there are career staff involved.
If you're really this aggravated about this whole thing, why don't you write in to the City Council or comment at one of their meetings instead of degrading Mr. Nechis? It really seems like some seriously misguided anger.

Where in the article does it say that?
And the hiring was to replace a retiring employee And that employee's job function (Fire Inspector) is legally mandated by state law.

There are those who believe career fire protection is the only "real" or effective fire protection, just as there are those who feel volunteers offer benefits in terms of cost saving and community involvement while offering the same quailty of service. As with everything each are entitled to their own views and are free to express them, but blanket statements are always wrong. Some dept.s are well run, well organized, professional and this ensures that they get the job done to the benefit of their communities, and some aren't and don't....and as much as many may want to dispute it this fact cuts right across the career/volunteer line. Paychecks do NOT guarantee anything other than people fighting fires as a job, just as volunteerism does not guarantee anything other than people having an association with a fire dept. In this case it seems that the cost to service ratio is way out of whack, but that in and of itself should not be an indictment of volunteer firefighting. Each department must be viewed independently to determine their value to those they serve and only those served have the right decide if their dept is indeed valuable to them.
Cogs

Good day!
I'm Dan.
29 years active duty (8 Navy, 21 USCG) and yes...still active.
Volunteer FF/EMT on an all paid service.
Quals done at night/weekends including EMT-B, FF1, FF2, EVOC 1,2 and 3 and several HAZMAT and TECH Rescue (all at the age of 41-42) so you young sprouts....dig in! Older folks....come live the dream. I'm living it!!!!
Lost a 10 y/o son to cancer. He was pinned an Honorary FF at our home/Super Bowl 36 Party. Several months later, when he passed, many of my (now) fellow FF's and Medics were there by his/our side.
My son was given full FF Honors.
Needless to say.....I have things to give back! It's with deep pride that I serve my Country and my Community.
Did I mention, Scout Leader too?!?!? It's about our youth (and yes, my son who passed and his brother....both Scouts).
Time costs NOTHING! Make your mark!
Semper Paratus!
CoastieGMCS

Matty O - You were one hell of a firefighter and 1 truly great friend, I was honored when you always called me uncle Gerry. To the brothers at the FDVA and the membership of Putnam Lake FD you are all in my thoughts and prayers. To his family I will always cherish the fact that I could call him my Friend. The 10th Battalion has lost one of the best. RIP brother, I will see you when the big guy calls me to join the Heaven FD.

Although not in the US Flag Code I believe it is an unwritten tradition that elected officials can order flags at half mast for their jurisdiction, thus FFs. Police, Military, and unfortunately, Singing Drug Addicts can be honored. However, we the people have the right to vote that official out of office in the next election. Unfortunately, we cannot legally run that official up the flagpole.

Jack- first off I love the keyboard commando thing. I was not questioning this site, I know they have rules and I know it is a privately owned and operated site which I for the most part enjoy. Like my esteemed colleague Tommy Mac said it gets under my skin when people weren't at an incident but yet they know what went on and have no problem being a monday morning quarter back. And the other thing that really ticks me off is the vollie bashing that goes on usually by 1 person. Fires don't burn any hotter, extrications aren't any different, just because you get a check for doing it. Firefighters are firefighters career or vollie and yes there are some in both types of dept. that should not be in this line of work. (if there are any spelling errors please forgive my stupid fingers.)

That's it, you win.

So I've heard several times today and even seen some articles online that report that Gov. Christie is planning on ordering flags to half for Whitney Houston. There are so many ways to honor someone, but to orders all flags in the state to half?? I'd like to point out that tihs is the same honor that is given to heads of state but more importantly those we have lost in the service to our country...a good voice yes but definitely not worth of the same statewide symbol of honor and respect. Technically, only the President or govenrnor can order flags to half, that should give some indication of that serious, solemn nature the act represents. If these articles are true, shame on Gov. Christie! P.S. for those who may point out that it was perhaps done for other celebs in the past, it was inappropriate then and it's innapropriate now; two wrongs don't make a right.

Legal Issues, Constitutional Rights, Civil Rights, and all that other good stuff aside, there is one key word that affects all of us. It affects us whether we're paid or volunteer. It affects us whether we're Police or Fire or EMS. It affects us no matter where we work or who we work for. It's a rather simple word, but it's a word that probably has more control over us as Emergency Service professionals then any other word. PERCEPTION.
How we are perceived by the public plays a HUGE role in the level of respect and confidence we instill in the communities we serve. Perception can also be used to protect us in times of potential danger. Take for example, Line of Duty Deaths of Law Enforcement Officers. During interviews of convicted cop killers, they were asked why they went forward with committing the act of murdering a uniformed police officer. The majority said they PERCEIVED that they could overpower and overcome the law enforcement officer that was engaging them. This perception was borne out of the fact that the officer appeared unkept or unprofessional, or the officer lacked a command presence, causing the perpetrator to perceive the officer was not in control of the situation. A police officer who has a clean and neat appearance, speaks in an articulate and command voice, and looks like a well trained professional is more likely to gain compliance from individuals just based on the perception that they are a well-trained professional. Sometimes that is all takes to end a potentially violent incident. Perception can work for you or against you, it just depends what image you allow the individual you are dealing with to perceive.
The same applies to EMS providers. An EMS provider who appears to be professional; is well groomed, wearing a clean and pressed uniform, and expresses and articulates him/herself as a professional provider, will be perceived by patients and family members as a capable, well trained individual who is going to provide the highest level of emergency medical care. Now take an EMS provider who is unkept, dissheveled, and uses improper grammar and can not articulate themselves as a professional. These providers are perceived to be incompetent, which makes for some difficulty in earning the trust of our patients, their family members, and other medical providers, in both the prehospital and in-hospital settings.
Perception does not necessarily mean that an individuals perception of another is correct. You can be the a very well spoken, clean, and neat EMT or Paramedic, and still be a sub-par provider in terms of your clinical skills and judgment. But if you are a top notch provider, you may be fighting an uphill battle to win over your patient or family if you give off the wrong perception.
How does perception apply to Social Media Outlets? Well, we are public servants. Whether we are paid or volunteer, we are agents of the Emergency Service community who set out to serve the people of our community. No other group of individuals are criticized more then public servants, especially us in the Emergency Service field. How we conduct ourselves, both on and off duty, is going to lead the public who we serve to perceive us in a certain manner. I can understand why a lot of people would agree with the statement, "What I do in my free time with my personal accounts is my business". It seems like a rationale way of thinking, and eventhough we're public servants we still are entitled to our "alone time" away from our duties as public servants. But even during that alone time, when we're off-duty, out of uniform, and away from our Stations, the public still views us as a representative of whatever entity we belong to. To engage in childish, immature, and inappropriate behavior, either directly in view of the public, or through Social Media Outlets where there is always the possibility of such behavior becoming public, is going to have an extremely negative affect on how the public PERCEIVES not only the individual, but the organization as well. And it is even worse when it is a high ranking official or officer within the agency, because the leadership is entrusted to set a professional example for the rest of it's membership. If the leader acts like a buffoon, what does that say for the troops under his/her command? Combine that perception along with the line of work that we engage in. We are responsible for protect our communities, whether it be from criminals, fires, or life-threatening accidents or illnesses. Ask yourself, if you saw an individual coming to the aide or you or your family member, who just an hour before you saw was carrying on through Twitter or Facebook (or any other outlet) like an immature and unprofessional buffoon, how much perceived trust and confidence would you have in this individual before they even said a word to you? I'm all for having fun and goofing around; but there has to be boundaries. If we can't control ourselves as not just professionals, but simply as adults to conduct ourselves with regard for our status as public servants both on and off duty, then we should find a different field of employment or means of volunteering to give back to the community.

All this discussion regarding training and minimum knowledge requirements is all well and good, however, (and there is always a however) how many departments have minimum PHYSICAL requirements, other than being able to show up for a call or drill, or class,... and MAYBE fog-up a mirror ...
How many places have real department "physicals" other than the bare-bones minimum documentation required for wearing a respirator, and maybe monitoring blood pressure, vision, hearing, but what about testing a firefighter for strength, and even endurance, for working under at times dangerous and physically stressful (exhausting) working conditions?
How many times does someone have to take/ pass a CPAT? Once, to get hired? annually?
I know (today) I would not be able to run up several flights of stairs with full gear, pulling a hose line, even when I (thought I) was in pretty good shape it would be a fairly decent challenge. And now I'm nearing the upper edge of my profile age bracket.
The majority of firefighter fatalities is coronary related. 44 percent, in fact. Heart attacks. (based on a USFA 1990-2000 study)
Something to think about, is all.
Get in shape, stay in shape.
[/soapbox]

I don't favor banning anyone if they aren't abusive to other members. If a chief officer wants to shoot him/herself in the foot publicly on a forum, let them. Banning them tends to only protect them from themselves until they do something even more detrimental to themselves or their department.

As a general 1st Amendment thing, this month's Firehouse rag has a short article by Curt Varone (Providence FD/attorney) on 3 cases, one of which addresses Protected Speech.
As for Seth's original question/commentary: Clearly officers, especially chief officers should set the example and live by a higher bar. As you rise up in rank you should observe a higher level of decorum. While sometimes it's hard for any of us (remember Chiefs quite often were once type A personality firefighters) to keep our mouths shut, one must evaluate the total perception of the situation from the multiple points from which it can be observed. Maybe a tightly regulate social media site can narrow who sees what posts, but in forums such as here, anyone could find your rants and make them very public.

That's one lawyer's interpretation. Corporation Counsel for several municipalities has held that employees may be held accountable for their comments on Facebook and/or Twitter when off duty. While on-duty you're probably violating some other policy if you post on social media during your tour. The wearing of the department logo while off-duty is also subject to restriction, according to the NYPD who recently banned members from displaying the logo or even letters "NYPD" while off-duty unless the garment/apparel has been approved by the administration.
As for social media policies and infringements of constitutional rights, there are many variables and many issues that will be reviewed and litigated before a final determination is made. It's not a simple yes/no proposition.
Departments should have policies on social media, uniform standards, professionalism and conduct (including representing the agency while off-duty) to avoid big problems and liability in the future.
As for being a moderator of a site like this, it's actually fairly simple, even from a constitutional point of view. The website is privately owned and has a published set of membership guidelines. If a post violates those guidelines it is removed. Virtually every media site (LOHUD, NYT, Firehouse Magazine, etc.) that has a forum retains the right to remove posts that violate their terms of service.

My first thought is your thread mixes and matches different aspects of behaviors and actions.
1. What a person does on social media on a personal level is just that. Personal. As long as it is established that it is in fact their personal space. Meaning, its John Doe...registered and listed as that...not Chief Doe. Also I feel that no one should post intimate details about work related information on any site. That is unprofessional no matter what title you have. You want to post some action shots...sure..but let it be well after any issues with the incident have been resolved. But intimate details should never be posted particularly when there is a death or serious injury to anyone. I've seen postings on FB before next of kin were even notified. Great way to find out. Any issues at work are not personal information tid bits in all reality. And that includes the volunteer side. Freedom of speech only goes so far. There are things call decency and maturity as well. I would further venture to say the farther up the chain you go..the lonelier it should get for you. If I'm every fortunate to be Chief of my department I can tell you now that there wouldn't be anyone who couldn't tell the difference between Chief me and me me.
2. As far as inciting things, whats good for the goose is good for the gander. I have a rule..don't mess with intelligent people. I had a person in a position who loved to rile people and often not fact based. Then wanted to back track when called out on it in a formal setting. Doesn't work that way.

It's viewed by some (many) to connote racist/hostile undertones. Many may display it without those intentions, but the fact remains that a stigma does attach. I believe you should feel free to celebrate the symbolism if you so choose, but when it comes to public sector employment, even the suggestion of racism is problematic. You don't have to agree that it's fair, but the fact remains that it does.

This statement couldn't be further from the truth.
This website (and others like it) is a private entity, and as such, your "civil rights" that you might enjoy elsewhere gets checked at the door. This site has rules, one of them being that the site staff decides what gets published and what goes in the trash. However we don't just dump any member content on a whim.
If we feel it's offensive, then it probably is.
Nobody can come along and expect everything they say and do to stand and be covered free speech, it's not.

This statement couldn't be further from the truth.
This website (and others like it) is a private entity, and as such, your "civil rights" that you might enjoy elsewhere gets checked at the door. This site has rules, one of them being that the site staff decides what gets published and what goes in the trash. However we don't just dump any member content on a whim.
If we feel it's offensive, then it probably is.
Nobody can come along and expect everything they say and do to stand and be covered free speech, it's not.

Forget about online. how about in the field? Ive seen a LT with a confederate flag sticker on the back of his helmet... Professionalism right out the window....

I think the simple fact is that anyone in emergency services, whether you want to be or not, is a representative of his/her agency. Conduct that is unprofessional and immature not only makes you look foolish, but reflects negatively upon your agency and the emergency service community as a whole. An individual who is a Chief or other supervisory figure in his/her agency should absolutely be held to a higher standard, since they are expected to be the utmost professional and possess the qualities of a mature and professional leader. When I see individuals exhibiting childish and unprofessional behavior, it makes me second guess their abilities as a leader. We dont have to act like professional robots all of the time; we are all human. But unprofessional conduct when it applies to situations involving conflict resolution, or improper conduct that can be viewed by the public or those outside our little world, is inexcusable if you want to be taken seriously as a competent leader.

I'd like to know what you think about how fire chiefs and other leadership should behave online.
Would you respect a Chief that behaves in a vulgar and immature fashion online on social media sites such as Twitter and Facebook? What kind of message does that send to his/her department, the community, and the fire service?
What would you think of a fire chief who enjoys inciting conflict, doesn't play by the rules on purpose, and makes themselves look like a victim of their own actions when they suffer the consequences of it?
Finally, what type of members respect and follow this type of leader? And what type of member blindly follows a leader no matter what? And what if word gets out to the citizens about their fire chief's behavior?
I believe that a fire chief should be allowed to have their own presence online however they see fit. However, I strongly feel that they must show some sort of decorum online, and set an example for others.