lt411

FDNY has a dewatering unit assigned to Special Operations command (SOC). In the past it was a large rescue style box unit that had a hydraulic-powered large capacity pump (Stanley system), in addition to numerous sized gas powered "trash pumps". The unit would be driven to the scene of an incident by the SOC firefighter, and an engine company would meet him at the scene to provide hose and manpower. Many engine companies have trash pumps, especially in the shoreline and "flood prone areas". There is also a large capacity hydraulic pump(s) on a roll-off kept at SOC that has a several thousand GPM capacity. This was used to pump out the PATH train tubes between NJ and lower Manhattan.
This was some of the inventory in FDNY in the past. Maybe the active FDNY brothers can add to this?

FDNY has a dewatering unit assigned to Special Operations command (SOC). In the past it was a large rescue style box unit that had a hydraulic-powered large capacity pump (Stanley system), in addition to numerous sized gas powered "trash pumps". The unit would be driven to the scene of an incident by the SOC firefighter, and an engine company would meet him at the scene to provide hose and manpower. Many engine companies have trash pumps, especially in the shoreline and "flood prone areas". There is also a large capacity hydraulic pump(s) on a roll-off kept at SOC that has a several thousand GPM capacity. This was used to pump out the PATH train tubes between NJ and lower Manhattan.
This was some of the inventory in FDNY in the past. Maybe the active FDNY brothers can add to this?

Wow, you guys have run short staffed for so long you have not got a clue what proper staffing is. And I am not talking about this latest crisis. 75 firefighters lets see how short you really are........
To staff 4 engines (you mentioned 3, but don't you run 4), 2 ladders and a command unit to meet the minimum standards to respond to a 2,000 sq ft. single family house without a basement requires a minimum of 26 firefighters per shift. That 12 more than you currently run.
That gives you 3 firefighters and 1 officer on EVERY RIG.
To maintain 26 per shift you need 104 firefighters plus the additional members who are assigned to staff (training, codes, chief, etc.) you also need to cover contractual overtime which means each member would work an additional 20% or you need to go to 5.2 FTE's to staff your rigs, which would bring the total dept size to 135 (plus staff).
You are fighting for table scraps when you really need a steak diner. And you seem willing to accept the scraps.
And while you think you can handle a room & content fire under the "normal" staffing, you are cutting way too many corners and putting yourselves and the citizens at risk.
Now I can guarantee you will never see the numbers you should have. In fact I predicted 6 years ago that most of the career depts. were going to see staffing reductions and that we could either consolidate or each dept would suffer. I figured that we were spending the same amount of money to staff rigs with one or two as a consolidated dept would spend with 4 on a rig.
22 firefighters & officers on a response was what I proposed, and the response from almost everyone is we do not want that.
Now every one of the depts. is either fighting to survive (and I'm sorry but those that run with less than OSHA requires are not surviving) or has already faced the reductions (and more are coming).
Go read the NIST study's on staffing. They proved that fewer better staffed rigs do a better job than lots of understaffed ones do. They actually proved that 2 + 2 = 3
when 2 firefighter engines team up with another 2 firefighter engine, they are only as effective as a 3 firefighter engine and the standard says 4 minimum.

I believe the course is called "FLSTP" (first-line supervisor training program. It is run by FDNY but it is for any NYS career firefighter promoted to the next up supervisory rank (usually Lieutenant, but it could be Captain or Chief, depending on the size of the dept.). When I went years ago, we had officers from Yonkers to Syracuse to Cohoes to Johnson city to Albany and buffalo. It was 4 weeks long, and the lessons were all taught in a generic manner, meaning they were relevant to any career dept., not just FDNY (there were only 2 days where the FDNY lieutenants were separated from the rest to teach specific FDNY admin matters). It was really interesting when we had a tactics class- each student had to explain to the class how they would handle a fire on the 3rd floor of a 5 story multiple dwelling. The small departments really showed us "big city" guys how they attempted to "do more with less". We all got a lot out of the class, and had a lot of laughs.

I believe the course is called "FLSTP" (first-line supervisor training program. It is run by FDNY but it is for any NYS career firefighter promoted to the next up supervisory rank (usually Lieutenant, but it could be Captain or Chief, depending on the size of the dept.). When I went years ago, we had officers from Yonkers to Syracuse to Cohoes to Johnson city to Albany and buffalo. It was 4 weeks long, and the lessons were all taught in a generic manner, meaning they were relevant to any career dept., not just FDNY (there were only 2 days where the FDNY lieutenants were separated from the rest to teach specific FDNY admin matters). It was really interesting when we had a tactics class- each student had to explain to the class how they would handle a fire on the 3rd floor of a 5 story multiple dwelling. The small departments really showed us "big city" guys how they attempted to "do more with less". We all got a lot out of the class, and had a lot of laughs.

I believe the course is called "FLSTP" (first-line supervisor training program. It is run by FDNY but it is for any NYS career firefighter promoted to the next up supervisory rank (usually Lieutenant, but it could be Captain or Chief, depending on the size of the dept.). When I went years ago, we had officers from Yonkers to Syracuse to Cohoes to Johnson city to Albany and buffalo. It was 4 weeks long, and the lessons were all taught in a generic manner, meaning they were relevant to any career dept., not just FDNY (there were only 2 days where the FDNY lieutenants were separated from the rest to teach specific FDNY admin matters). It was really interesting when we had a tactics class- each student had to explain to the class how they would handle a fire on the 3rd floor of a 5 story multiple dwelling. The small departments really showed us "big city" guys how they attempted to "do more with less". We all got a lot out of the class, and had a lot of laughs.

I believe the course is called "FLSTP" (first-line supervisor training program. It is run by FDNY but it is for any NYS career firefighter promoted to the next up supervisory rank (usually Lieutenant, but it could be Captain or Chief, depending on the size of the dept.). When I went years ago, we had officers from Yonkers to Syracuse to Cohoes to Johnson city to Albany and buffalo. It was 4 weeks long, and the lessons were all taught in a generic manner, meaning they were relevant to any career dept., not just FDNY (there were only 2 days where the FDNY lieutenants were separated from the rest to teach specific FDNY admin matters). It was really interesting when we had a tactics class- each student had to explain to the class how they would handle a fire on the 3rd floor of a 5 story multiple dwelling. The small departments really showed us "big city" guys how they attempted to "do more with less". We all got a lot out of the class, and had a lot of laughs.

I believe the course is called "FLSTP" (first-line supervisor training program. It is run by FDNY but it is for any NYS career firefighter promoted to the next up supervisory rank (usually Lieutenant, but it could be Captain or Chief, depending on the size of the dept.). When I went years ago, we had officers from Yonkers to Syracuse to Cohoes to Johnson city to Albany and buffalo. It was 4 weeks long, and the lessons were all taught in a generic manner, meaning they were relevant to any career dept., not just FDNY (there were only 2 days where the FDNY lieutenants were separated from the rest to teach specific FDNY admin matters). It was really interesting when we had a tactics class- each student had to explain to the class how they would handle a fire on the 3rd floor of a 5 story multiple dwelling. The small departments really showed us "big city" guys how they attempted to "do more with less". We all got a lot out of the class, and had a lot of laughs.

I believe the course is called "FLSTP" (first-line supervisor training program. It is run by FDNY but it is for any NYS career firefighter promoted to the next up supervisory rank (usually Lieutenant, but it could be Captain or Chief, depending on the size of the dept.). When I went years ago, we had officers from Yonkers to Syracuse to Cohoes to Johnson city to Albany and buffalo. It was 4 weeks long, and the lessons were all taught in a generic manner, meaning they were relevant to any career dept., not just FDNY (there were only 2 days where the FDNY lieutenants were separated from the rest to teach specific FDNY admin matters). It was really interesting when we had a tactics class- each student had to explain to the class how they would handle a fire on the 3rd floor of a 5 story multiple dwelling. The small departments really showed us "big city" guys how they attempted to "do more with less". We all got a lot out of the class, and had a lot of laughs.

I am unable to get to either of the websites mentioned in the 1st post, so I can't comment on that move by Gov. Christie. BUT, on another great move he made, he refused to pay the required amount into the Fire and Police pension funds this year, saying that NJ didn't have the money. This, after he and the unions signed an agreement several years ago that required the FD/PD ,members to pay more each paycheck into the pension, but also required the state to pay what they were obligated to pay into the fund. Governors in the past never paid in the required amounts, hence the big deficit in the pension fund. Gov Christie backed out of the agreement due to his fiscal mismanagement. He "got his cake and ate it too" (look at the size of him). God forbid he ever gets to be President.

Look, I'm an active and vocal member of Merit Matters, in the FDNY. I'm endlessly critical of the Vulcans, the judge in this case and the whole liberal agenda here. Guys got screwed and failures were rewarded.
However.....
Let's not allow the conversation about this article to focus on the negative here. There was little written about the lawsuit and the Priority Quota Hire. What the article did do is tell a really well worded story about a great save. It broke down the job of firefighting in a way that the general public can understand and it made us look good.....for a change. It highlighted the job, described it's difficulties and shed some light on our work ethic and devotion.
If these days of pension and union hatred and a world of people forgetting what firemen do.....
....I'll take the positive press.

The Westchester Special Operations Task Force(WSOTF) is a mutual aid group consisting of 11 Career FD's. The departments are divided into squad companies. Every squad is trained in Hazmat/WMD, Trench, Building Collapse, Confined Space & Rope Rescue. Each Squad is equipped with Hazmat/WMD equipment (except Yonkers handles it outside the squad). Greenville, New Rochelle & Yonkers squads have collapse rescue units in addition (which carry Trench, Building Collapse, Confined Space & Rope Rescue equipment). White Plains Squad also has collapse (but I am not sure if they carry trench).
The squads are assigned as follows:
Squad # 1 Yonkers
Squad # 2 New Rochelle (with Larchmont & Pelham Manor recently being added)
Squad # 3 Mt Vernon
Squad # 4 White Plains
Squad # 5 Eastchester / Scarsdale
Squad # 6 Fairview / Greenville / Hartsdale
Each squad must respond with a minimum of 5ff's & 1 Off. But some respond with more.
Yonkers Squad Responds with a Collapse Unit. Their USAR Trailer responds with the Rescue and a USAR Task force to support the squads.
Both Greenville & White Plains have collapse units.
New Rochelle Responds with either hazmat/WMD support unit or Heavy Rescue and Collapse Rescue unit. New Rochelle was also designated for swift water rescue, has been equipped and officers have been trained as instructors. Members will be training this summer.
The system is set up so that their are approximately 54 trained/certified responders on duty in the different depts. available to respond.
Many of the squads have responded as far as Delaware County. NRFD has responded as far as Canada.
We can be requested via 60 Control. Dispatch times are generally under 5 minutes to get sent out of district.
When a tornado hit California Closets in Hawthorne (17 miles from NRFD Sta. #1) 60 Control Requested us immediately and YFD, GFD & NRFD had 50+ responders and equipment on-scene in under 25 minutes.

Yesterday (Sat.5/31) the Brewster Fire Dept. (Putnam County) was dispatched to a reported trench collapse with worker trapped. Upon arrival of the BFD chief, a sizeup was completed, and the following conditions were noted: operator of a 5 ton skid steer machine was trapped in the cab, approx. 30 ft below grade, and unable to extricate himself due to the position that the machine was stuck in; one half of the excavation appeared stable, and the other half was comprised of disturbed soil. The operator was conscious and alert, complaining of general pain due to the accident. The machine was not covered in dirt- it just fell in the hole.
The IC requested Lisi's towing to respond with their heavy-duty wrecker (20 ton capability, I believe), and also requested the West Co. Technical Rescue team. The tow truck slung the skid steer, and easily brought the machine to grade level, where the operator was rermoved and turned over to BFD ambulance and Medic 4. Croton Falls FD and Carmel ambulance were also on scene, and the operation went well.
SO, if it was a true trench collapse, with a victim entrapped, my question is this- other than FDNY- Special Operations command units, and Yonkers FD, do any other career depts. have on-duty,fully staffed (more than 3 firefighters on-duty) companies available to respond out of their district? How far out of their immediate response area would they be able to respond? Do they have a second piece stocked with shoring materials? What is the procedure to get their response, and how long would it take for them to get permission to leave their municipality?

Disregarding the gift shop, the museum is very well done. My wife and I went on Sunday, and were impressed by the great job done by the curator in setting up all the exhibits and films,etc. Particularly gut-wrenching was Ladder Co. 3's rig. On the side of the aerial, with the company's name, is "Recon 3". That's the name the brothers came up with for the company, after Capt. Paddy Brown was assigned there. Paddy was in marine recon in Vietnam; a Golden Gloves boxing champ; and a super-fireman. He never talked about any of the medals he won over the years, and was one of the most humble guys you ever wanted to meet. He died at the WTC, along with all his men. They would have followed him anywhere- he was a super leader and a great human being.
If you get a chance, visit this museum, despite the rip-off price of $24 starting this week. If you responded to the WTC in Sept. 2001, you can join the "rescue and recovery worker registry", and after signing up, you are allowed free entry.

Disregarding the gift shop, the museum is very well done. My wife and I went on Sunday, and were impressed by the great job done by the curator in setting up all the exhibits and films,etc. Particularly gut-wrenching was Ladder Co. 3's rig. On the side of the aerial, with the company's name, is "Recon 3". That's the name the brothers came up with for the company, after Capt. Paddy Brown was assigned there. Paddy was in marine recon in Vietnam; a Golden Gloves boxing champ; and a super-fireman. He never talked about any of the medals he won over the years, and was one of the most humble guys you ever wanted to meet. He died at the WTC, along with all his men. They would have followed him anywhere- he was a super leader and a great human being.
If you get a chance, visit this museum, despite the rip-off price of $24 starting this week. If you responded to the WTC in Sept. 2001, you can join the "rescue and recovery worker registry", and after signing up, you are allowed free entry.

Disregarding the gift shop, the museum is very well done. My wife and I went on Sunday, and were impressed by the great job done by the curator in setting up all the exhibits and films,etc. Particularly gut-wrenching was Ladder Co. 3's rig. On the side of the aerial, with the company's name, is "Recon 3". That's the name the brothers came up with for the company, after Capt. Paddy Brown was assigned there. Paddy was in marine recon in Vietnam; a Golden Gloves boxing champ; and a super-fireman. He never talked about any of the medals he won over the years, and was one of the most humble guys you ever wanted to meet. He died at the WTC, along with all his men. They would have followed him anywhere- he was a super leader and a great human being.
If you get a chance, visit this museum, despite the rip-off price of $24 starting this week. If you responded to the WTC in Sept. 2001, you can join the "rescue and recovery worker registry", and after signing up, you are allowed free entry.

Disregarding the gift shop, the museum is very well done. My wife and I went on Sunday, and were impressed by the great job done by the curator in setting up all the exhibits and films,etc. Particularly gut-wrenching was Ladder Co. 3's rig. On the side of the aerial, with the company's name, is "Recon 3". That's the name the brothers came up with for the company, after Capt. Paddy Brown was assigned there. Paddy was in marine recon in Vietnam; a Golden Gloves boxing champ; and a super-fireman. He never talked about any of the medals he won over the years, and was one of the most humble guys you ever wanted to meet. He died at the WTC, along with all his men. They would have followed him anywhere- he was a super leader and a great human being.
If you get a chance, visit this museum, despite the rip-off price of $24 starting this week. If you responded to the WTC in Sept. 2001, you can join the "rescue and recovery worker registry", and after signing up, you are allowed free entry.

Disregarding the gift shop, the museum is very well done. My wife and I went on Sunday, and were impressed by the great job done by the curator in setting up all the exhibits and films,etc. Particularly gut-wrenching was Ladder Co. 3's rig. On the side of the aerial, with the company's name, is "Recon 3". That's the name the brothers came up with for the company, after Capt. Paddy Brown was assigned there. Paddy was in marine recon in Vietnam; a Golden Gloves boxing champ; and a super-fireman. He never talked about any of the medals he won over the years, and was one of the most humble guys you ever wanted to meet. He died at the WTC, along with all his men. They would have followed him anywhere- he was a super leader and a great human being.
If you get a chance, visit this museum, despite the rip-off price of $24 starting this week. If you responded to the WTC in Sept. 2001, you can join the "rescue and recovery worker registry", and after signing up, you are allowed free entry.

His personal pride and pride in his company have nothing to do with the amount of companies, then or now. That has more to do with politics than anything else. It is not something an individual company officer has any say or influence in.
A work ethic like that is rarely seen anymore, but it is sorely needed.
Calling them "morons" is uncalled for.

Great anecdote from a retired Deputy Chief of the Syracuse FD.


Best line in the story:
"Because if you don't have company esprit d'corp...if you don't think you're good, no one else will...and these guys were good"

http://videos.syracuse.com/post-stan...the_meani.html

As far as "knocking with your elbows" at the firehouse, it usually means an Entemann's cake;bagels;donuts;eggs and bacon to cook for breakfast (if you're coming in for a 9x6 tour), and The Daily News (or the Post, but not so much). Bring copious amounts if you have a pumpkin patch on your helmet (Probie)! That's why you have to "knock with your elbows", cause you're carrying.

I applaud NYPD for taking this step. As overdue as it it, they might be one of the few departments with a formal response SOP for this type of situation. Far too many agencies take this for granted.
I took a class years ago that was designed for Fire & EMS personnel responding into crime scenes, that basically was a guide on how to not screw up evidence. From that I came away thinking that there should be a basic awareness level class about each service that the other services should take. PD often calls FD the Evidence Eradication Team and FD often calls PD Blue Canaries. Think about the last MVA scene you were on and how chaotic it was, let alone a structure fire or major assault. We should all be basically aware of what each other do and more to the point what we are limited in doing ourselves.
I would also include EMS in this, as even with FD being EMT's most of the time there are always new things coming out, especially in ALS that we often don't get to hear about. Despite there being a large number of EMS personnel with some FD experience there is still the problem with canceling incoming units without evaluating their actual need. So I guess there should be three classes and everyone should take two of them.

I always thought that a tower ladder has the bucket/basket on the rear of the truck, and the ladder tower has the basket/bucket on the front. Years ago we had both in FDNY- there were several tower ladders (L14 and L163) that were Sutphen rigs w/ pumps, and all the other TL's were Mack/Baker aerialscopes. The Sutphens were 100 ft. and were often special-called for their longer reach.
Maybe the present-day FDNY brothers can let us know what the current situation is?

I cannot imagine that GFD responds, on the first alarm within 8 minutes, this:



Anything less, and you're endangering life, of both your citizens, as well as the firefighters there.

It was in the news, I posted it for discussion. Are we not supposed to discuss the news anymore? A large majority of the real estate in Greenwich is expensive, and the Town has a sturdier tax base then most, and can afford a lot more then other communities can. I'm not an economist, but Greenwich is a lot better off then many others FD's. Regardless of the article, it must be a topic of discussion in Greenwich, and from what I take from your comments, a heated one.
Two man, first due engine companies or stations is not proper staffing by any means, regardless if they are backed up by volunteers or not (assuming they are not guaranteed to be at the station at the time of every call). Those two firefighters could arrive at a scene a few minutes before other firefighters or another company, especially depending on "chute" times, and those minutes could mean life or death, or complete property loss or an aggressive stop. Especially when you consider the large real estate in the "backwoods" of Greenwich require an additional response time for the additional Engine, Truck (more square footage to search and vent=more manpower) and FAST companies to get there. And, then on top of that, a large portion of the "backwoods" of Greenwich is not covered by a hydrant system, and there is a huge factor that plays in when you account for all the additional manpower and equipment you will need just to establish a water supply, let alone keep it going.
Let's not account for the other fire service needs in Greenwich, such as one of the busiest interstate highways for tractor trailer use with a high percentage carrying hazardous materials, one of the busiest commuter rail lines in the US with several stations, plus Amtrak and Freight traffic, a dangerous parkway, the Long Island Sound, a nearby airport, proximity to NYC, etc. Just the other week, 3 Greenwich Engine companies and one Rescue company were required for a 90 minute extrication. What if a major fire was to break out then?
Can you elaborate more against the items stated in the article, to give us the perspective of the "other side" as you state?