JohnnyOV

How about MA stand bys in a department qtrs? Lights and sierns? Whats your Dept policy?

What benefit is gained from an emergency ride to go and hang out at another station? If your reasoning is that, "well we MIGHT get called to the fire on an upgraded alarm, so we need to get their as quickly as possible," is exactly the same as saying "lets drive around town between calls with our lights and sirens going, because at some point, the tones are going to drop for something." I'm surprised that insurance companies even allow this to occur.

Northampton County PA

"True life is stranger than fiction"

http://www.mediafire...kqdss8zgvp7k900

Welp, that's enough internet for one day...

Forgive me if the answer is obvious to everyone here but I'm not in the fire service. What prevents one from running a hose down to the lake and getting water from the backyard or across the street?

and for the light hearted...

Forgive me if the answer is obvious to everyone here but I'm not in the fire service. What prevents one from running a hose down to the lake and getting water from the backyard or across the street?

EXCLUDING the use of a turbo draft...

In order to draft out of a body of water, hard (in reality its flexible, non-collapsible) suction must be used. The angle of hard suction used has no bearing on the drafting operations, rather it's based off the height of lift, the atmospheric pressure and the vacuum that the pump can create to "pull" the water into the pump. Theoretically, a fire engine's pump, under perfect conditions, can lift water about 33' above the water level. Due to limitations, imperfect seals, and other factors, the actual lift of the pump is actually closer to 20-24 feet. If the barometric pressure was reading low that day, you're looking at a lift of maybe 15 feet.

If I remember correctly, for the South Salem Fire the size up was given as a 3 or 4 story structure, with 2 in the front and the remainder in the rear... that right there is a huge difference in height to draft from those sources.

INCLUDING the use of a turbo draft....

The turbo draft works by using a simple physics process known as the Venturi effect. A 2.5" hose line is stretched from a discharge on the source pumper, to the turbo draft and a 5" supply line is returned into the intake of the engine. Water is pumped from the engine's tank, down to the turbo draft, and then the venturi effect forces more water back up and into the supply hose. Priming the pump is not required.

According to the specs of the turbo draft, you're maximum effective height is a 30 foot lift, with a 250' length of 5" being used. At the maximum distance and height, with a 150 psi 2.5. supply pressure, you're looking at a flow of about 150 gallons a minute. If' you're on flat ground and using 50' of 5', you should be getting a flow of 670gpm. http://www.turbodraft.com/products_01.html

Are you saying what this woman did would not be permissible in New York? What are the laws on New York that govern this?

I was under the impression that even in your own home, you need to make every attempt to flee and escape the aggressor before using lethal force against them. Under what I have heard in the past, and it's simply by word of mouth, or post on here, standing in the hallway waiting for the door to open, then shooting an intruder with a shotgun will end up with you not having a justified shoot.

Just looked up the law, and I'm completely wrong. Thanks for clarifying this for me guys. Penal Law is Article 35 § 35.15 2 (a)(i)

2. A person may not use deadly physical force upon another personunder circumstances specified in subdivision one unless: (a) He reasonably believes that such other person is using or about touse deadly physical force. Even in such case, however, the actor may notuse deadly physical force if he knows that he can with complete safetyas to himself and others avoid the necessity of so doing by retreating;except that he is under no duty to retreat if he is: (i) in his dwelling and not the initial aggressor;

Your home is your castle. Great shooting.

Not in NY it's not....

Either way, she did the right thing. Justice was served swiftly in OK this week.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45881535/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/#.TwWnT6lwjow

OGDEN, Utah — A police officer was shot dead and five colleagues were wounded as they tried to serve a drug-related search warrant late Wednesday, authorities in Utah said.

RIP Agent Francom. Speedy recovery to all other affected in this heinous crime

Date: 1/4/2012

Time: approx 1400

Location: 9 N High Street

Frequency: Elmsford, Fire 14

Units: Elmsford Engine 237, ladder 55, tower ladder 21, Vallhalla FAST - rescue 9, Fairview engine 174, Hartsdale Engine 171, Hawthorne ladder 26

Weather Conditions: Cool

Description Of Incident: Fire in the basement of a 1.5 story 40 x 20 residence. 2 lines stretched and operating, Con Ed Gas/Electric to the scene.

14:15 - Fire appears to be extinguished, 1 engine from Hartsdale x 1 ladder from Hawthorne to back fill at Elmsford ladder Co's quarters, Batt 14 requested to the scene.

14:20 - 10-75 transmitted, Fire has extended to the 1st floor. Fairview Engine 174 and Valhalla FAST to the scene

14:25 - Command requesting E174's manpower

Hartsdale Engine 171 was relocating, and was requested to the scene as well for manpower.

Wait, wait, wait. You mean to tell me that as volunteers, we don't have to do easy stuff like this?

(green is roads with no hydrants on them, but the cross street or access road has one, and yellow is out of the hydrant district, requiring a tanker shuttle)

Well if I don't need to know every hydrant, then I'm sure as hell not going to learn the roads either. Heck, why even pre-plan? We're just volunteers, we can't be bothered with auto-sprinkler connection locations and draft site access and other logistical things like that.

That entire officer staff needs to pack up, go home and join a damn club.

At least even if it is..you can still read yours and understand your point. I see some on here that the only way it would fit is if it could be written in crayon.

It's too bad the screens not made out of construction paper...

edit: hasn't this editing box thing always been around? I've always seen it after I've edited my posts

###1: ###1 to 60-control

60 Control: 60 control is on

###1: Fire K/D, Overhauling at this time

60 Control: 60 recieved, Fire Knocked Down, Overhauling at this time

UNKNOWN: UH CHIEF, WE'VE GOT HEAVY FIRE VENTING OUT OF THE BC SIDE OF THE HOUSE

###1: ###1 TO 60 CONTROL, DISREGARD MY LAST UPDATE, IVE GOT HEAVY FIRE VENTING OUT OF THE BC SIDE OF THE HOUSE

Too soon?

The Capt. gave a good explanation of what is available. To reiterate simply, if everyone has a radio and the SOP is that they key it up when they arrive, at least you'll know who's there and operating. It's a modern "two tag" system. Basically, with a radio we have the tool of a digital signature to capture and record.

Again, this should be center stage right now. Put every other expense on hold and make the radio accountability purchase that works best for your department. This is our safety and it's more important than everyone else's.

This should really be addressed at the County level. One department's accountability is far different then their neighbors. The entire system in the county is flawed. When their is so much M/A that occurs, wouldn't it make sense to actually use a system that is interopertable... much like the radios?

Under "M's" description of FDNY's new accountability system, the radio (when keyed) tells the command post what radio it is, who has it and what their riding assignment is. Based on the assignment they generally know where a member should be operating (ie. roof, floor above, pump etc.).

Motorola sells the software to do this (FDNY went with another vendor) and there are other features of both systems that FDNY opted not to have. They include; "polling" which means the radio when turned on in range of the system will automatically advise the system its there, it will also show when a radio has been turned off or dies and showing the battery status of each portable. There is also a way for the radio to use its 16 channel sellector to have 16 predetermined assignments (roof, fire floor, command, OVM, etc.) that the memebr can turn to (while remaining on the same radio channel) and the command computer will place the "radio" into that location group.

Motorola & Scott are working to merge this radio accountability system in 2012. Using the Scott SIMS II system, but not the mesh network, they plan on using bluetooth between the SCBA and the radio so that the radio accountability system will also recieve the amount of air the ff has, and the PASS Alarm status along with the current radio system functions (evac, emergency button, polling, battery life, etc.).

We expect to do the final testing and training of this system in the next 3 weeks. I will post a follow up once it is completed.

Sounds like a great system when there aren't dedicated members to each function at every call... i.e. the volunteer realm.

The volunteers, and I say that by means of unstaffed departments where it is a crap shoot as to who shows up, are in need a system that can adapt and change with the number of personnel on scene. What was designed for FDNY is fantastic, but in all seriousness, can only work when there is down time during roll call to update who is actually working, and what position they're riding in. It is basically impossible for this system to work in a volunteer department, especially when you have guys showing up in POV's, ect ect.

Sitting here right now, I've thought of a few idea's that could incorporate the system that NRFD will be testing out, that could work for a volunteer department. However, It would require a lot of upgraded radios, and a small upgrade to gear.

Based off the system that the Capt stated above, what if each FF was issued an RFID tag (http://en.wikipedia...._identification) that was stitched into either his coat's radio pocket, or his radio strap or both. That RFID would label all the normal accountability information of who it is, what department they're from, age, gender, blood type, medical history, all the important personal stuff. The great thing about the RFID tag is that is requires no batteries to operate. It's the same thing that are placed into pets between their shoulder blades for identification if they're ever lost.

The radio itself, would then also double as an extremely low powered RFID reader, so when it's placed in either the radio pocket or the holster, it reads who it is, and transfers all the information to the base station. This could be coupled with the assignment that the FF is completing that the Capt. was referring to.

I'm sure they must already be looking into something like this though.

Ladies and Gentlemen, in this particular instance, Connecticut wins.

I hereby surrender all previous posts. This thread should be deleted with the exception of this video.

At a working fire on the corner of X and Y ...M/A engine coming in:

"Engine ### to 60-control, is that a right or left off of Xst onto Y"

(before 60-control had a chance to answer)

"IF THEY DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY"RE GOING, SEND THEM HOME!!!!!!!"

"60- Control to Eng ###, that's going to be a right."

over heard on the fire-ground after that was "look for the smoke and shiny trucks"

Date: 12/28/2011

Time: 0323

Location: 15 Lake Rd Cortlandt

Frequency: 46.26, Mohegan District Wide, Fire 17

Units Operating: E258 E252 L 35, Peekskill Fast, Buchanan Cascade, MVAC, Batt 17, CO z4

Weather Conditions: cold

Description Of Incident:

0323 - Dispatched to possible Structure Fire

0328 - 10-75 transmitted, PFD FAST, BFD Cascade, MVAC and Batt 17 dispatched

0408 - Per Batt 17 fire in a 35x25 2 story wood frame, heavy fire in the attic from the D side of the building.

0408 - ....Fire appears to be k/d at this time ....

0743 - situation under control ATT

0801 - all units in service

Reporters: to the left and up

Writer: my left and right hand

During a snow stand-by...

Base to utility: how are the conditions out there?

utility to base: wet and slippery

unknown source: YEHAHHHHH! THATS HOW WE LIKE IT!

In addition to posting the VEHICLES that respond, can you post how many PERSONNEL respond? The WPFD question (2-3 on a company) raised a very interesting point. How many FF does this response include?

Volunteer departments may not have a standard answer but the career jobs can give us the rundown.

Thanks!

I know I answered this in another thread for you, but I'll do it again here because I feel this pertains more to this thread then apparatus response...

In all honesty , you could have 8 pieces of apparatus on scene, but if you only have 8 firefighters, you're efforts are going to be almost futile. Manpower is what is needed most, not the big shiny toolbox.

It all depends on the situation presented at the time. Our district is almost 37 square miles big, so expecting everyone to show up to the firehouse to respond is not only pointless, it would delay our response, especially since we only have 2 stations (insurance co audits actually recommended 5 stations). Anyways, a majority of the time we have guys hanging around the main firehouse, enough to get 2 pieces on the road with 2 or 3 guys on the rigs each. Sometimes there are full apparatus, and sometimes we're rolling driver only. Right now, it's just the nature of the beast and we're actively trying to address that problem.

People in the rigs will get assignments as we ride to the scene, and prioritize each function depending on the staffing level. People who arrive on scene in their POV will meet with the IC and get their assignment from there.

If I'm responding driver only, there are about 1000 things going through my mind on what needs to be done when I arrive. If I have a crew with me, the guy sitting in the right seat makes all those decisions, and I know that as the MPO, I'll be operating the pump, flaking out line, securing a water source, throwing ladders, basically any function on the outside that needs to be accomplished if we arrive with minimum manpower.

I wont hide behind a smoke screen and say that manpower is great 100% of the time. Just like every other department (even if you refuse to admit it) we're dealt with a crappy hand sometimes. It's how you overcome those obstacles in the first 10 seconds, prioritize what needs to be done first and effectively accomplish those tasks in a short time period.

This post has been edited by JohnnyOV: 23 December 2011 - 12:00 PM

And Chief Flynn beat me to the punch...

edit 2: I should also add that for M/A runs, the rig will not leave the station until 4 interior qualified firefighters (or 4 FAST members if it's a FASTeam) are on it.

Does all apparatus respond with a company officer and crew or is it just a matter of whomever shows up?

(Looking for everyone's input not just Brian's)

It all depends on the situation presented at the time. Our district is almost 37 square miles big, so expecting everyone to show up to the firehouse to respond is not only pointless, it would delay our response, especially since we only have 2 stations (insurance co audits actually recommended 5 stations). Anyways, a majority of the time we have guys hanging around the main firehouse, enough to get 2 pieces on the road with 2 or 3 guys on the rigs each. Sometimes there are full apparatus, and sometimes we're rolling driver only. Right now, it's just the nature of the beast and we're actively trying to address that problem.

People in the rigs will get assignments as we ride to the scene, and prioritize each function depending on the staffing level. People who arrive on scene in their POV will meet with the IC and get their assignment from there.

If I'm responding driver only, there are about 1000 things going through my mind on what needs to be done when I arrive. If I have a crew with me, the guy sitting in the right seat makes all those decisions, and I know that as the MPO, I'll be operating the pump, flaking out line, securing a water source, throwing ladders, basically any function on the outside that needs to be accomplished if we arrive with minimum manpower.

I wont hide behind a smoke screen and say that manpower is great 100% of the time. Just like every other department (even if you refuse to admit it) we're dealt with a crappy hand sometimes. It's how you overcome those obstacles in the first 10 seconds, prioritize what needs to be done first and effectively accomplish those tasks in a short time period.

The honest truth here is "Titles and Names"

Every one wants a Rescue Company, a Squad Company, Technical Rescue Squad, Etc.

They are Titles.

its truly about the equipment carried and level of training of the members, this doesn't mean every rescue needs to have trench or structural shoring equipment but they should have more then just extrication tools.

West Harrison's Apparatus is a rescue pumper as stated not truly a rescue, its just a name, if putting a tool on a engine and changing the name means not buying separate engine and rescue apparatus then who cares what they call it.

Seriously, everyone has their panties in a bunch over the name of a tool box and the rather large office water cooler on wheels. Who gives a flying fahtooka what it's called. If they called in responding "Magic Carpet 1" or "Craftsman transport Vehicle" and they show up with sufficient, well trained man power and equipment to get the job done, then they can call themselves what ever they want for all I care.

Priorities people.

2. i see where this is gonna lead, and like every other topic its gonna come down to paid vs vollie. because vollies dont have as much training as career staff. it gets kinda old and seems to be popping up more and more frequently. i know im not the only one tired of seeing it.

Then do something about it. Insist that FASNY lobbies and NYS follows through increasing the training requirements of volunteer firemen. We're our own worst enemy sometimes.

I regret to inform you that Police Officer Arnulfo Crispin has succumbed to his injuries he received when he was shot by a 19 year old perp late Sunday night. PO. Crispin had 18 months on the job, and was searching a park for 5 individuals alone. As the PO was patting down one of the suspects, another perp cowardly shot PO Crispin in the head and the 5 fled the scene. PO Crispin's backup arrived to find Crispin shot. A massive manhunt ensued and the suspect was later apprehended and the suspected weapon was recovered.

RIP PO Crispin

http://www.baynews9.com/article/news/2011/december/360610/Lakeland-Police:-Officer-Arnulfo-Crispin-dies?cid=rss

Not saying that the rig compares to an FDNY rescue, but hydraulic tools are no the only "rescue" tool on the rig. We have FAST equipment, rope rescue equipment, Res-Q-Jaks, ice rescue equipment, cribbing, airbags, winch, etc. There has been talk of in the future switching to the designation of Squad.

Pretty sure a to be designated a "Squad" you need to have a minimum staffing of 5 firemen and an Officer (edit: inputted "all") all trained in Hazmat technician (level A suit entry and decon) / WMD response, technical rescue technician trained in structural collapse, confined space, trench rescue. Anything other then that, and you're still just a "Rescue."

We have a gentleman that loves to record MVA's and calls that are occurring outside to post on a local web media site. I have several times asked him to stop and of course he pulls the I'm on public property but I explain to him that him recording can and does cause a distraction. I've been in the presence of several LEO's when on calls who also tell those recording the same thing. It simply adds another element that is not needed.

I refer you to the 1st amendment... and statter911.

http://statter911.com/2011/12/18/what-gives-no-outrage-over-ghoulish-photographers-shooting-bodies-has-something-changed-in-year-since-connecticut-trooper-blasted-cameraman/

As much as I disagree with the the filming of accidents, patients, and the operations, the constitution allows for the freedom of the press to film and report what they want that is open to pubic viewing. Morally and ethically is it OK, probably not. There has been incidents of firefighters and EMS workers getting fired over the release of medical photos and videos, but again, we're held accountable under HIPAA.

The only thing that can effectively keep the news out of a certain area, is to set up a secure zone and consider it a crime scene or active investigation site, thus prohibiting the reporters from entering the restricted area. Other then that, it is fair game.

In this new day and age, everyone from the 5 year in the baby stroller to grandma, and grandpa have access to a video/camera phone. Most recently we seen this type of raw footage with the brooklyn firefighter burned alive yesterday ( god bless and best wishes on a speedy recovery), but when is enough is enough mentality come into play?

Today I saw a Facebook post by the JEMS website that had me thinking why? You have a pt of unknow age been transported ti a hospital after being involed in an MVA where he was on his way to school. Yet the EMS crew allowed the pt to flim his own transport . Is that appropriate?, Do you think if you were the person incharge; would you allow it? Being he is your pt, do you think there is some form of HIPPA violation that you, your crew, the company you work for can be held liable for. Are there wavers that you have your pts sign in cases like this. Heres the big question.. If it makes you as the EMS professional uncomfortable can you legally have him stop recording..

I just wanted to hear everyone elses thoughts on this subject. I posted a link below..

JEMS article

I wish some of the patients filmed the local VAC... Walking MVA pts to the car who were involved in major MOIs, never using a KED in the years I've been involved, walking up to scenes with no equipment at all, sitting on a scene when the patient was loaded 10-15 minutes prior into the bus. Might convince them to actually do their job the right way.

As an EMT, I would have no problem with a patient or news crew filming me, why, because you can bet your arse I'll be following protocol. Have always, and will always continue to do that. Your skills should be fined tuned enough that you're completely comfortable operating in front of a camera. If you're going to freeze up and second guess yourself, then maybe you need to find another profession / volunteer area.

edit: also, I doubt it would be a HIPAA violation if the pt is filming, and releases the footage on their own accord. The HCP is not the one releasing the PT's info, the actual PT is.