bigrig77

What does it matter? It matters to those of us who are Yorktown taxpayers, or have family members who are Yorktown taxpayers. It matters to those of us who want to see a capable, streamlined, consolidated emergency service system here in Westchester County instead of the conglomerate of districts and agencies that currently exist. Perhaps they didn't obtain or use this money illegally, but if they were able to save this money from their regular operating budget, then did they really need that money in the first place? Plus the taxpayers already said "No", we don't want you spending millions on a new firehouse, and that's just what they're doing, spending millions of taxpayers dollars on a new firehouse.
Have they done their homework? If so, then what is the benefit? As far as we know, there are no members that live in the vicinity of this new proposed firehouse. There is an extremely minimal number of calls in the Southern end of town. Millwood FD is a mile away, and to get to parts of the Yorktown District, they have to drive through Millwood's District. Where's the benefit? I'm failing to see it unless someone can offer up a good arguement as to the benefit of this project.
With that line of thinking, maybe every department should train and equip a HazMat Team, a Dive Team, a USAR Team, etc., because maybe one day they will be able to save a life. It's simply not fiscally responsible, that's why we utilize mutual aid from the County's TRT, Career Departments that have these capabilities, and other agencies (such as Yorktown's well established Water Rescue Team)to supplement our responses to these incidents. No different then Yorktown and Millwood entering a mutual aid agreement for the Southern end of Yorktown. Now I don't know if that option was ever explored, but if it wasn't, that's being financially irresponsible.
It's not criticizing. In addition to being Firefighters, Paramedics, EMT's, Police Officers, etc., we all have one thing in common; We're all Taxyapers! I never understood the mentality some of us have when it comes to finances. Are our functions important to the community? Of course. Should be be properly trained and equipped to respond to emergencies? Of course. But just because we provide a vital function for the communities we serve doesn't give us carte blanche to be financially irresponsible and think that the ideologies of budgeting don't apply to us.
Most of us aren't just going to "get over it" simply because you dictate we should. We question and discuss things because in the end, we are all looking to improve the "system" that exists here in Westchester, and many of us want to see the "home rule" and "fiefdom" way of doing things start to dissolve a bit, and this project has not only isolated the department from the taxpayers, it also ignores other alternatives for Fire Departments to consolidate services and save money for the taxpayers, while still providing high quality service.
Simply because other firefighters on this board are being reasonable and questioning the necessity of this project? So, I guess in the fire service everyone should just go along with anything and everything the other "brothers" are doing, regardless of how irresponsible or unnecessary it may be?

Ok, it may not be sneaky, but it was not using "existing funds". The taxpayers were very vocal in there opposition. They voted no bond, but they also stated "NO FIRE STATION". They had protests and there were letters to the papers etc. about this. The board of commissioners said they would build it anyway and found millions of tax payer money to do it. Now thats after they had already purchased the land. Where did those millions come from....they raised the operating budget (i.e. raised the tax rate) over the last 5-10 years and took the money from the homeowners. Now if it is true that the fire department (not the district) can not provide proper staffing for this station, the district should return the money to the tax payers who were over charged.
I have no problem with the commissioners forward thinking on the need for a 3rd station. And often the community will fight against a new and very needed station (this is the same community that will fight to keep it once its established). But this does not appear to be the time to build a fire station, fill it with apparatus and not have the staff to operate and maintain it.

I'll say it...consolidation yet again might be a better option for the entire area...Yorktown, Millwood, Mohegan...hire more staff...period.

Out of control??? All I see on here is grown men having a conversation about a very controversial subject regarding Yorktown.
And if they were to enter into a mutual aid agreement for every call, you're right. We would talk about it. It's covering up a much larger issue of a lack of manpower.
Nobody is attacking YHFD for trying to protect their constituents, but in this day and age with EVERYONE looking at how we spend taxpayer money, we/they can do better.

If memory serves, When it was last up for public vote, this point came up and the answer from the commissioners was something along the lines of none, but this will get volunteers from other parts of town to "hang out here".
Me Too!
If YFD builds this house, can YFD guarentee a response time with apparatus and manpower that is acceptable to its own standards?
Since, YFD would still respond they would have no liability, particularly since the voters turn down expansion.
This new fire station with an engine, tanker and dive truck will not help anyone if it does not have staffing. If they have outgrown the other fire stations, they need to consider:
1) do they have the right size fleet (that they can staff and operate)?
2) do the existing stations need additions?
3) could they add a bay in Millwood to help handle it? And going back in history, didn't YFD have an engine stationed in Millwood many years ago?
With this move and the state mandated tax cap, the tax payers may never allow it.
And most can't get a winning team on the field.
Firefighters put out fire, not fire stations and rigs
The dead horse is any dept that can not put enough interior firefighters onscene in under 10 minutes 24/7/365. As vollunteer numbers drop and career depts face reduction, this will continue to be an issue. Most of the country is already seen the light but we would rather be taxed high and get poor service for it, just so we can be proud of our own little kingdom.

NYS states that minimum training for Interior Firefighters is as follows:
For members that joined before 8/1/02:
Firefighting Essentials and Initial Fire Attack
For members that joined between 8/1/02 and 12/31/05:
Basic Firefighter, Intermediate Firefighter and Firefighter Survival
After 1/1/06:
Firefighter I and Firefighter Survival
The question I had and still have is this: If a member joined an FD say 20 years ago, was the Essentials and IFA the required training, or was it just Essentials?
And, do guys now need to take equivalent or better classes to retain their Interior status, or are they "grandfathered?"
Thanks.

This is the result of us doing the same job with less:

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/02/03/nyc-fire-union-looks-to-speaker-quinn-to-block-fdny-closures/
A few days ago the mayor released his fiscal plan for the next few years. In it he included $50 million budget cut for FDNY. The only way they're cutting $50 million is to close houses. For anyone watching the past few years this should sound familiar. He will soon begin ramping up the media support for firehouse closures. In 2 to 3 months a revised budget will come in with an unexpected surplus from increased revenues in yadda yadda yadda. He will still push for the cuts because they are necessary to maintain a balanced budget in the near future. Come June he will submit his budget including the company closures to the city council. A few weeks of political wrangling later, the city council will approve a budget with funding restored for the firehouses. Bloomy gets to come away looking tough on those fat cat firefighters and public servants while the damn liberals in the city council continues to undo his hard work.
I am sick of this BS. I'm tired of giving up sunny afternoons for another rally at city hall. I'm tired of sitting in on long boring city council meetings. I'm tired of e-mailing and calling legislators. Sadly for another year we must continue this fight. This is a war and we have to fight every battle. If you're a teacher, cop, EMT/medic, sanitation worker, transit employee, secretary, or any other city employee this story should sound painfully familiar. He is forecasting another substantial reduction in employees on the city payroll, so look for cuts everywhere. He is also forecasting Billion dollar deficits in the coming years and claims to have exhausted the city's rainy day fund. There will be more pain and it will be wide spread. Please get involved with your union. Its going to be an election year, step up and support your local's political action agenda.
Thank you for indulging my rant.

never gonna happen. These chiefs are so power hungry they will never give up their little sandbox.
The guys in the city have full trucks and they still get more guys then they need. And that's a good thing. Here in Westchester everyone is so scared of this big scary Consolidation. Just get it done. We are all getting kicked around by a couple of dinosaur Chiefs who are still using the mind set of the 70's 80's and 90's. Times have changed. Taxpayers expect and deserve more and better fire protection. Showing up with one guy on the rig or sending a couple of guys is not gonna cut it anymore. As was stated, everywhere else in the country departments cover 100's of square miles with less then we have. You cant rely on Vols like you use too. You cant expect a fully staffed engine or ladder to come anymore. Times have changed. Now it's time this county to catch up.

Simply put, NY is a home rule state. So when you say fire, whoever the chief is gets to decide who gets to play. Until this changes, nothing is ever going to change. We can all disect this job til we are blue in the face, but until then, we all know that nothing is going to change.
It nothing against anyone, its a simple product of our state and the way its run and governed. Consolidation would be great and benificial, but until it happens nothing is going to change.
If your the chief, pick any department and have them dispatched. Hopefully they show up with enough people that know what they are doing. If not, ill call another department nd put you to work anyway.
We all know the system is flawed. Its not going to change. How bout we start talking about how to actually try and consolidate instead of asking why four departments went to a job instead of one?
End result, the fire went out. One department, 20 departments, doesn't matter. Everyone went home at the end of the tour, that's what matters. Chiefs and their fiefdoms, not going to change until someone has the balls to stand up and say its BS and then actually do something about it.
End of story/rant.

ONE WORD SOLVES THIS AND MANY OTHER ISSUES Consolidation.....you can do it many different ways....start with the departments in the same Battalion.
FirNaTine i agree management can be done better concerning our resources. But if you ask me I think in most of Westchester there are to many ladders and so called heavy rescues. Also what my Department does when we take a piece of equipment out of our district that is vital to our community/ district we thrn backfill.
You may ask then where does it stop hmmm thats the million $ question....
I agree if you cant fullfill your district with proper fire protection and dont have a plan to back it up when you leave you should then manage the mutual aid plan before the call.
But it did seem in the IA that there was alot of mutual aid on this job for a PD but thr I C knows best at that time and bottom.line everyone went home.

If Pass alarms are going off on the fireground by accident it is a training issue plain and simple.

All too often you can hear PASS alarms going off at fire scenes. And way too often, people ignore them.
I know that I always make a point to locate a PASS alarm and ensure it's not a distress. This also applies to the guys on our FAST. We've been to plenty of Mutual Aid jobs where PASS alarms are sounding because air packs were dropped outside and not reset, or due to a pack malfunction. In one case, a new firefighter had an activated PASS while he was pulling ceiling and went about his work. We send three guys inside and told him, and he looked around slightly confused. His brothers tried to reset it, only to find it was malfunctioning. They took the pack outside, down the street and shoved it in a rig compartment to try and silence it.
Upkeep is an important issue. In our department, all SCBA issues are relayed to our SCBA Maintenance Officer who maintains all of our air packs. If he can't fix it, it's pulled out of service and sent in for repairs.
Everyone should be in the habit of shaking their asses when they hear the pre-alarm, whether it's their pack or not. This will cut down the number of unneeded PASS activations.

Evidence that just going to a lot of fires is not enough.

I'd still suggest that they be trained to the EMT-Basic level if for no other reason then the likelihood of injuries to their associates. Whether it be fireground, during training, or whatever the environment, having the extra knowledge could prove beneficial.

and AED! All apparatus should have proper EMS gear as well, even if they don't run ems. If I had my way, I'd add CPR, First Aid and AED training to the FF1 curriculum, among other stuff.

Got your name on the back of our coat and a tag on the chest
No not at all. Most times the tag is never collected. It's more a "i see him there" or " I sent him to the basement to do this" so thats where he is mentality.

Let's clarify our definitions before this thread starts rolling.
"Buff" is someone whose hobby is the FD, be it fires, fire apparatus, old tools, history, etc. A buff often appears at fires but is not involved with any part of the command structure. His position is to stay behind the fire lines and observe, take photos or videos, or discuss the strategy. Sometimes, he is well known and trusted by the IC, and is allowed to cross the fire lines and take pictures, but he cannot become involved in the operation. Also, both career and voll personnel are often found buffing, many are there not to buff but to learn strategy or tactics to better their knowledge of firefighting. Most buffs are not a problem. If they go where they are not supposed tb be, they are told to get back and usually comply.
"Freelancer" is someone who IS part of the command/operations structure but is not following the orders of his superiors or the incident action plan. For example, without an order, he may vent a window, discharge a hose line, enter a building without authorization, etc. A freelancer, by the way, can be a Chief from another department who is operating and giving orders like it was his fire instead of the actual IC. It could be a company that is assigned to the job, but is doing their own thing. Freelancers will get people killed. Yes!...straighten them out or get them off the fireground. Career FFs who are freelancing are easy to correct. Their freelancing can cost them 3 days pay or worse. Volls might take some schmoozing to correct the problem, but if it happens more than once, it's probably time to drop him from your rolls. I know it's hard to get volls to join, but losing a member is better than losing a life.
If there is really a problem, you can get a police officer and request an arrest for interfering with governmental operations. (That's if the freelancer isn't the cop)
Sorry Brothers in blue, I just couldn't pass that one up. I still like you guys.

Do the compartment lights stay on with the doors closed? I picture the probie checking it just like the little kid checking if the light stays on when you close the refridgerator door.

Two basic issues: What is a Rescue Company and what is a Rescue Unit?
The Rescue Company is equipment (including transport) AND enough trained personnel that respond together and can perform a particular rescue function.
How much personnel is needed? This depends on the incident. FDNY has the best Rescue Staffing and their are many incidents that require additional Rescues, or trucks or squads to assist them.
The Rescue Truck. We have an issue because in Westchester a Rescue can be a regular van or a 24' tandum axle unit.


What is a Rescue? A light Rescue? Medium? Heavy?
If you own a 20'+ walk in rescue, but basicly only have the equipment to handle an MVA its not a "heavy rescue". A line I always get a kick out of is "Heavy Rescue is the capability of the company not the weight of the chassie"
We have truck companies that carry what I would equate to as the equipment for a light rescue unit (spreader, cutter, rams, cribbing, airbags, jacks and basic rope equipment). I have seen large rescues that do not carry much more. Infact often I see they do not carry enough basic cribbing to handle a car underride of a truck or school bus).
My 1st question to a chief when laying out a new rescue is what type of rescue calls do you plan on operating at?
Fire, MVA, Machinery, Water (surface, swift/flood, Ice, dive), heavy transport (truck, bus, train, aircraft, etc.), confined space, high angle, trench, building collapse, etc.
You can not carry everything you need on 1 vehicle to handle all of the above. This unit may respond to all of them, but you must decide what equipment you will put on this unit. And if you can't carry it, who does?
Much of this debate would go away if 60 Control had a list (that everyone saw) that listed rescues by capability (in terms of type of incidents).
As listed in the squad description, we also need to determine what staffing (including minimum training levels) needs to respond (FEMA calls this typing) with each type of unit (engine, ladder, rescue, etc.).
Also lets not get hung up with how many responders can ride in the rescue. Whats important is how many arrive with it and can operate as a company. There are many 2 seat heavy rescues, but they get another 4-6 responders in another vehicle.

QTIP, if you look at my profile you will see I am a volunteer just like you. I am not trying to turn it into anything it isn't. I'm just realistic. While some may think it sounds cool for people to call themselves a "rescue company" lets be honest. Very few if any volunteer departments in Westchester are "staffed" with the adequate amount of trained personnel. Having 4 FFs and a Chaffeur, when responding, and of those 4 FFs- 1 is interior(adequately trained), 2 are exterior and the last is a junior member. This does not make up a "Rescue Company"
And I think that is what the thread was getting at, that there is a lack of adequatly trained personnel to sufficiently staff the Rescue apparatus in Westchester county. It takes more than just a Rescue truck in your station to make you a "rescue company"
There is even a career department here in Westchester that doesnt fulfill the requirement to be considered a "Squad" according to Capt Nechis' definition, but has a squad designation. So the only people turning this into a "career vs. vollie" argument is ourselves. Staffing problems go beyond that of career or volunteer.
If for what ever reason you feel the need to get defensive then you must have an underlying feeling that your department is defficient in supplying an adequate number of trained personnel. I am not coming out and saying that Montrose has an issue with adequately trained personnel just that if its member is so quick to jump on the defense then there must be a reason for it.
MoFire, The only reason I quoted you is because it seemed to me that you were searching for information that wasnt what the original thread was speaking about.

I thought it was just a bunch of Truckies who are afraid of heights.

I had the privilege of being Jeff's instructor on several occasions and can tell you he is one of the most dedicated and motivated students I've had and is a very capable firefighter who earned every single certification he has by far exceeding the minimum standard. I would work with Jeff any day.
To simply put it..you have to meet the standards. We can debate what the "minimum" standard is, but everyone who enters a course, I can assure you at a "minimum" is meeting the standard of the curriculum set forth by NY State and the NFPA.

Here's a photo from the 1975 Hess Toy Truck Collection (Much Better than those of today)

Another year, another crappy Hess truck. Man i remember when these things were cool. They were real collectors items. now it just something you would pick up at the dollar store. Plus anyone remember when they were actually gas trucks?