bad box

If that's what it takes to get your point across to get the job done, so be it.
Hope everyone went home safe.
 
We've become so PC and pussified in recent years, it's scary.
Does is sound professional? Maybe not. But the men making these statements are likely some of the most professional in the business. 

Seriously you are upset over language on a fire ground /tac radio?  As long as it's not over main communications talk to each other however you want.  On my jobs tac channel we speak anyway which way to get the job done or get a point across. As long as FCC and scanner buffs listening everywhere don't hear it who cares.  This sounds like more PC BS that doesn't need to be brought up or have a topic thread open about it.  Nice video though hope everyone got home safe. 

Didn't Obama Care solve everyone's health related needs?

Didn't Obama Care solve everyone's health related needs?

Didn't Obama Care solve everyone's health related needs?

Exactly. 
 
In my area, one of the local TV stations did a multi-part story about fire response in the metro area (multi-county) last year.  There's only a handful or so of fully paid departments, a number of combination (mostly volunteer) departments and the vast majority are all volunteer.  The story covered things like response times, scratching calls, lack of manpower, mutual aid choices, mandatory training, funding and a number of other things.
 
Overall, the stories were met with very vocal disapproval from the volunteer side who were very defensive and labeled it as bashing them.  IMO, there were some flaws in the story, some things needed more explanation to better understand the information and there was a little of the typical sensationalism mixed in, but overall it was a fair report.  However, each topic that they covered IS an actual problem in our area and the volunteers didn't help themselves out by refusing to comment on incidents that they were directly involved in or tried to not answer some questions.
 
The response from the volunteers, aside from calling for a boycott of and protest at the news station before the first segment actually aired, was pretty much, the reporter doesn't know what he's talking about, there is no problem and people shouldn't comment unless they join their local VFD.
 
Ironically, in the middle of this, there was a working fire in a mid-rise apartment building (6-7 stories) in a community served by 3 independent VFDs, early evening on a weekend if I'm not mistaken.  All 3 companies were due on the call along with a Tower from a neighboring community and possibly 1 other mutual aid company.  The Tower is the 2nd due truck to this location and the most distant unit from the scene (about 10 minutes depending on traffic).  The Tower arrived as the first unit on scene by several minutes, in part because they have live-ins and other members at the station almost all of the time.  This is not an unusual thing to occur.  The Tower's Fire Chief took command of the incident as no one else was there yet and stayed the IC thru pretty much the whole incident.  The first due company (no more than a mile away, if that) arrived late enough that they were parked out by other apparatus.  They had to park on the main road running past the building rather than being in front or in the rear of the building since other apparatus were already there.
 
Of course, there was a lot of patting each other on the back online after the incident about how great a job they all did, but no realization that they failed to live up to the expectations of their community.
 
Instead of taking advantage of the opportunity presented to them, acknowledging that the things covered are in deed problems and going to their community and leaders and saying this is what we need to better serve the community, whether it be direct financial support or admin help, recruiting help, career staff, etc.  Instead of using the news stories and the media in general to get their message out there so people know they need help, they chose to "punish" the reporter and station by snubbing them.  Instead of using the situation to try to shift more of the funding burden off constant fundraising by the volunteers themselves and onto the citizens they serve via a fire tax or increasing an existing one, they squandered it.  We're a year plus past the stories and the only thing we have to really show for it is occasional snide comments on internet making reference to that news station and how they hate volunteers.

 
 Interesting video to say the least. This is the "cost factor" that most people don't really see. My educated guess is that the least amount of fires occur in areas generally served by volunteer firefighters, but those fires that DO OCCUR, would account for the highest losses.
 
  When I look at that video, I can certainly relate to that being my house. Of course like most people who own a home, we have our insurance premiums paid to cover most of the damages to the building and hopefully it's contents. But what can't be replaced is all the personnel belongings that we gather over the years. Photos of our family members that can't be replaced, maybe our long time pet friends, and we of course are not counting the life hazard that is involved here waiting for a fire dept to show up.
 
 No folks, the price goes way beyond that cost of a few firefighters being able to quickly get that first and most important line in place. Somebody in the comments section of this video mentions that this is a place with a population of 47,000 people. Why isn't there at least some career firefighters on duty ? If that's true, "I have the same question".
 
  I felt this video explained so much what words could not. So I decided to passed it on to our city officials here in Norwich, Ct. (see thread - Fractured Fire Service of Norwich, Ct).  Along with the newspaper article that came out on July 3, 2016. Because what I find significant in the comparison of BOTH places is that one Norwich Volunteer Fire Chief even stated that: "they meet the NFPA Standard of answering 90 percent of their calls in 10 minutes". Well, in the case of this video, that department met that standard as well. It's just that as we wait and wait, this building continues to burn as the clock ticks. We basically get the full effect of what words just can not express. And as I watch it, I can certainly picture that being my house as I watch that fire chief, the only guy on the scene, do his 360 walk around and then try to look like he's actually doing something.

FASNY paid an economic research and statistical analysis company to write a glowing report about the excellent services being provided by volunteer fire departments. It's questionable as to how they came up with the figures presented that represent the cost of replacing volunteer departments with career departments. The response time information for volunteer departments isn't specific (Are they referring to the time the 911 operator received the call until first unit *not a chief's car* arrives on the scene, or the time the first unit signs on the air responding until they arrive at the scene? Are they referring to response time for all calls, just fire calls, just non fire emergencies, just EMS?). The bottom line is people rely upon fire, rescue and EMS services to respond quickly, be properly staffed, trained and equipped. Seconds count, and it's far more likely for a 24 / 7 career department to be able to provide an appropriate response in an acceptable time frame than it is for  a department that relies upon volunteers who in most cases must respond from their home or their place of work, to the firehouse before they can gear up and respond with the necessary apparatus. I volunteered for 17 years and am very aware of how understaffed departments are during normal work hours from Monday to Friday and how difficult it is to get a sufficient number of personnel to get out of their beds in the middle of the night for a call when they must be up for work or school in a couple of hours. I worked alongside many dedicated, well trained volunteers during those years, but regardless of how dedicated they are, work, school and family have to come before being available to get trained (initially), maintain annual training requirements (courses and drills) as well as respond to calls. 

This video does a good job of showing what commonly happens when a house is on fire in an area not protected by a full time staff of on duty firefighters. By the time the fire department arrives, there's no home left to save.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW70mP_bbfo
 

This video does a good job of showing what commonly happens when a house is on fire in an area not protected by a full time staff of on duty firefighters. By the time the fire department arrives, there's no home left to save.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW70mP_bbfo
 

The City of Mount Vernon needs to deal with this quickly and there must be serious consequences for the employee who posted the message.

 
I'm sure the senior citizen that owns it will gladly accept monetary assistance and volunteer labor
 

FASNY paid an economic research and statistical analysis company to write a glowing report about the excellent services being provided by volunteer fire departments. It's questionable as to how they came up with the figures presented that represent the cost of replacing volunteer departments with career departments. The response time information for volunteer departments isn't specific (Are they referring to the time the 911 operator received the call until first unit *not a chief's car* arrives on the scene, or the time the first unit signs on the air responding until they arrive at the scene? Are they referring to response time for all calls, just fire calls, just non fire emergencies, just EMS?). The bottom line is people rely upon fire, rescue and EMS services to respond quickly, be properly staffed, trained and equipped. Seconds count, and it's far more likely for a 24 / 7 career department to be able to provide an appropriate response in an acceptable time frame than it is for  a department that relies upon volunteers who in most cases must respond from their home or their place of work, to the firehouse before they can gear up and respond with the necessary apparatus. I volunteered for 17 years and am very aware of how understaffed departments are during normal work hours from Monday to Friday and how difficult it is to get a sufficient number of personnel to get out of their beds in the middle of the night for a call when they must be up for work or school in a couple of hours. I worked alongside many dedicated, well trained volunteers during those years, but regardless of how dedicated they are, work, school and family have to come before being available to get trained (initially), maintain annual training requirements (courses and drills) as well as respond to calls. 

Did this study ALSO look at the direct cost of "property damage and insurance claims" ? If not, somebody pays for that as the result of not having on duty career firefighters. Actually, my guess is that WE ALL pay for that through our homeowners insurance premiums.
 
Did this study look into the ISO (Insurance Services Office) ratings and insurance cost ? There could be a significant difference in what is paid by home owners, particularly businesses. A business served by a Class 1 fire department will be able to save a significant amount on their fire insurance payments versus a place with perhaps a Class 4 or higher number rating (Class 1 the BEST, Class 10 the WORST). Of course one of the main concerns is water supply. A city with good water mains generally does very well.
 
 Just as a comparison, in Connecticut there are THREE Class 1 Fire Departments, Hartford, New Haven and Milford, Ct. All have a good water supply and that gets high marks. However, all are also served by fully career fire departments.
 
   In the earlier thread of "A Fractured Fire Service Norwich, Ct", that city generally has a good water supply, except for one small area. That city is given a Class 4 rating. Part of the city served by a career fire department and the other part of the city served by five separate volunteer departments.
 
  The difference between Milford, Ct and Norwich, Ct is about 10,000 people more in Milford. However, for the same business to operate, the price for insurance coverage would be quite a difference. Maybe an interesting point to consider when paying your tax bill, how much actually goes to the fire dept, and paying your homeowners insurance bill.

Wow! Just think how much money could be saved if EVERYONE did their job for FREE.
 

F.D.N.Y. operates five heavy rescue companies and seven squad companies. The Rescue Companies are assigned full sized, heavy rescue apparatus and each are supplemented by a Collapse Response rig which carries additional equipment needed for structural and trench collapse rescue. The seven squad companies are assigned rescue pumpers which carry some extrication and technical rescue equipment. Each squad company is assigned a second piece that carries some additional technical rescue equipment as well as the haz mat technician gear that is assigned to the squads. Every rescue and squad firefighter is trained to the same level (rescue technician, hazmat technician, etc.). Every ladder company is fully equipped to perform vehicle extrication (complete Hurst Tool package, reciprocating saws, air bags, cribbing, etc.). Accident Victim Extrication as well as FAST / RIT are basic firefighter skills. Every member of the F.D.N.Y. is trained to perform automobile extrication's and FAST / RIT (as should every firefighter in every department, career or volunteer). A rescue company is assigned to start out on confirmed pins at the scene of a vehicle accident in case it proves to be a prolonged or particularly complicated incident. Departments whose 'rescue' work is limited to non technical rescue situations can very easily equip ladder or pumper apparatus with the items necessary for basic auto extrication responses. A county technical rescue team could be strategically located and assigned the necessary equipment and apparatus for any rescue incidents requiring services that are not available at the local VFD level. The savings in each department would be substantial. Another area where tremendous savings can be realized is the strategic locating of aerial apparatus. Many volunteer departments are located very close together making it extreme overkill for each department to own and maintain one or more aerial and or tower ladders.  

F.D.N.Y. operates five heavy rescue companies and seven squad companies. The Rescue Companies are assigned full sized, heavy rescue apparatus and each are supplemented by a Collapse Response rig which carries additional equipment needed for structural and trench collapse rescue. The seven squad companies are assigned rescue pumpers which carry some extrication and technical rescue equipment. Each squad company is assigned a second piece that carries some additional technical rescue equipment as well as the haz mat technician gear that is assigned to the squads. Every rescue and squad firefighter is trained to the same level (rescue technician, hazmat technician, etc.). Every ladder company is fully equipped to perform vehicle extrication (complete Hurst Tool package, reciprocating saws, air bags, cribbing, etc.). Accident Victim Extrication as well as FAST / RIT are basic firefighter skills. Every member of the F.D.N.Y. is trained to perform automobile extrication's and FAST / RIT (as should every firefighter in every department, career or volunteer). A rescue company is assigned to start out on confirmed pins at the scene of a vehicle accident in case it proves to be a prolonged or particularly complicated incident. Departments whose 'rescue' work is limited to non technical rescue situations can very easily equip ladder or pumper apparatus with the items necessary for basic auto extrication responses. A county technical rescue team could be strategically located and assigned the necessary equipment and apparatus for any rescue incidents requiring services that are not available at the local VFD level. The savings in each department would be substantial. Another area where tremendous savings can be realized is the strategic locating of aerial apparatus. Many volunteer departments are located very close together making it extreme overkill for each department to own and maintain one or more aerial and or tower ladders.  

This is no different than when the Council of Mayors paid Tri-Data to say there was no increased cancer risk to Firefighters. In my city Tri-Data was considered to be the most amazing and knowledgeable and super fantastic fire experts that ever walked the earth. Then it came out that they simply do what they are paid to do. I never trust any study like this because I don't trust the research.  

FASNY paid an economic research and statistical analysis company to write a glowing report about the excellent services being provided by volunteer fire departments. It's questionable as to how they came up with the figures presented that represent the cost of replacing volunteer departments with career departments. The response time information for volunteer departments isn't specific (Are they referring to the time the 911 operator received the call until first unit *not a chief's car* arrives on the scene, or the time the first unit signs on the air responding until they arrive at the scene? Are they referring to response time for all calls, just fire calls, just non fire emergencies, just EMS?). The bottom line is people rely upon fire, rescue and EMS services to respond quickly, be properly staffed, trained and equipped. Seconds count, and it's far more likely for a 24 / 7 career department to be able to provide an appropriate response in an acceptable time frame than it is for  a department that relies upon volunteers who in most cases must respond from their home or their place of work, to the firehouse before they can gear up and respond with the necessary apparatus. I volunteered for 17 years and am very aware of how understaffed departments are during normal work hours from Monday to Friday and how difficult it is to get a sufficient number of personnel to get out of their beds in the middle of the night for a call when they must be up for work or school in a couple of hours. I worked alongside many dedicated, well trained volunteers during those years, but regardless of how dedicated they are, work, school and family have to come before being available to get trained (initially), maintain annual training requirements (courses and drills) as well as respond to calls. 

FASNY paid an economic research and statistical analysis company to write a glowing report about the excellent services being provided by volunteer fire departments. It's questionable as to how they came up with the figures presented that represent the cost of replacing volunteer departments with career departments. The response time information for volunteer departments isn't specific (Are they referring to the time the 911 operator received the call until first unit *not a chief's car* arrives on the scene, or the time the first unit signs on the air responding until they arrive at the scene? Are they referring to response time for all calls, just fire calls, just non fire emergencies, just EMS?). The bottom line is people rely upon fire, rescue and EMS services to respond quickly, be properly staffed, trained and equipped. Seconds count, and it's far more likely for a 24 / 7 career department to be able to provide an appropriate response in an acceptable time frame than it is for  a department that relies upon volunteers who in most cases must respond from their home or their place of work, to the firehouse before they can gear up and respond with the necessary apparatus. I volunteered for 17 years and am very aware of how understaffed departments are during normal work hours from Monday to Friday and how difficult it is to get a sufficient number of personnel to get out of their beds in the middle of the night for a call when they must be up for work or school in a couple of hours. I worked alongside many dedicated, well trained volunteers during those years, but regardless of how dedicated they are, work, school and family have to come before being available to get trained (initially), maintain annual training requirements (courses and drills) as well as respond to calls. 

FASNY paid an economic research and statistical analysis company to write a glowing report about the excellent services being provided by volunteer fire departments. It's questionable as to how they came up with the figures presented that represent the cost of replacing volunteer departments with career departments. The response time information for volunteer departments isn't specific (Are they referring to the time the 911 operator received the call until first unit *not a chief's car* arrives on the scene, or the time the first unit signs on the air responding until they arrive at the scene? Are they referring to response time for all calls, just fire calls, just non fire emergencies, just EMS?). The bottom line is people rely upon fire, rescue and EMS services to respond quickly, be properly staffed, trained and equipped. Seconds count, and it's far more likely for a 24 / 7 career department to be able to provide an appropriate response in an acceptable time frame than it is for  a department that relies upon volunteers who in most cases must respond from their home or their place of work, to the firehouse before they can gear up and respond with the necessary apparatus. I volunteered for 17 years and am very aware of how understaffed departments are during normal work hours from Monday to Friday and how difficult it is to get a sufficient number of personnel to get out of their beds in the middle of the night for a call when they must be up for work or school in a couple of hours. I worked alongside many dedicated, well trained volunteers during those years, but regardless of how dedicated they are, work, school and family have to come before being available to get trained (initially), maintain annual training requirements (courses and drills) as well as respond to calls. 

FASNY paid an economic research and statistical analysis company to write a glowing report about the excellent services being provided by volunteer fire departments. It's questionable as to how they came up with the figures presented that represent the cost of replacing volunteer departments with career departments. The response time information for volunteer departments isn't specific (Are they referring to the time the 911 operator received the call until first unit *not a chief's car* arrives on the scene, or the time the first unit signs on the air responding until they arrive at the scene? Are they referring to response time for all calls, just fire calls, just non fire emergencies, just EMS?). The bottom line is people rely upon fire, rescue and EMS services to respond quickly, be properly staffed, trained and equipped. Seconds count, and it's far more likely for a 24 / 7 career department to be able to provide an appropriate response in an acceptable time frame than it is for  a department that relies upon volunteers who in most cases must respond from their home or their place of work, to the firehouse before they can gear up and respond with the necessary apparatus. I volunteered for 17 years and am very aware of how understaffed departments are during normal work hours from Monday to Friday and how difficult it is to get a sufficient number of personnel to get out of their beds in the middle of the night for a call when they must be up for work or school in a couple of hours. I worked alongside many dedicated, well trained volunteers during those years, but regardless of how dedicated they are, work, school and family have to come before being available to get trained (initially), maintain annual training requirements (courses and drills) as well as respond to calls. 

FASNY paid an economic research and statistical analysis company to write a glowing report about the excellent services being provided by volunteer fire departments. It's questionable as to how they came up with the figures presented that represent the cost of replacing volunteer departments with career departments. The response time information for volunteer departments isn't specific (Are they referring to the time the 911 operator received the call until first unit *not a chief's car* arrives on the scene, or the time the first unit signs on the air responding until they arrive at the scene? Are they referring to response time for all calls, just fire calls, just non fire emergencies, just EMS?). The bottom line is people rely upon fire, rescue and EMS services to respond quickly, be properly staffed, trained and equipped. Seconds count, and it's far more likely for a 24 / 7 career department to be able to provide an appropriate response in an acceptable time frame than it is for  a department that relies upon volunteers who in most cases must respond from their home or their place of work, to the firehouse before they can gear up and respond with the necessary apparatus. I volunteered for 17 years and am very aware of how understaffed departments are during normal work hours from Monday to Friday and how difficult it is to get a sufficient number of personnel to get out of their beds in the middle of the night for a call when they must be up for work or school in a couple of hours. I worked alongside many dedicated, well trained volunteers during those years, but regardless of how dedicated they are, work, school and family have to come before being available to get trained (initially), maintain annual training requirements (courses and drills) as well as respond to calls. 

Too bad it was economically flaud study.
 
my favorite part is the claim that volunteers have increased statewide by 30,000 - 40,000. 

Spending $500,000 to $1 million for a heavy rescue vehicle if all it does is carry an extrication tool and whatever non essential leftovers that don't fit on another rig is a senseless waste of tax dollars. Any full size pumper or aerial device can carry an extrication tool and cribbing. If a department reevaluates the left over stuff that's carried on their expensive rescue truck they may well find that much of it isn't needed and the rest is a duplication of items that are on other rigs or can be carried on the other rigs.