sueg

What happens to members in these departments that try to concern themselves mostly with training and operations and don't attend parades?

FFPCogs: I second that motion. All in favor?.......
We are trying to convince our very good Fire Chief who cares about the Department not to step down because those self-same destructive types keep undermining certain functions, and he does not deserve that. He has more to accomplish and finish, and has support of the ones who care about the FD, but is tired of dealing with the BS and subversion of a very few.

And this surprises?? We, ALL of us, have become conditioned to the senseless animosity and pointless "better than you" nonsense which has overtaken the fire service in the last decade. It is now the norm to jump on the bandwagon of spite and malice to show just how much you support your "side" in the great career vs volunteer saga. Long gone it seems is even a modicum of common ground or common mission camaraderie and support that was once enjoyed by the vast majority of firefighters in our area. The very vocal but still relatively small minority of malcontents and rabble rousing sh!t-stirrers has hijacked our service and turned it into an "us against them" morass of bitter resentment fed by uninformed rumor mongering and deceit...all in an effort to fulfill their own grandiose visions of self importance.
Make no mistake, the persistent and unbridled hate spewed forth by some within our service is a cancer, no matter how well couched in "facts" it is. We have a choice, we can feed this cancer and let it grow ever more disruptive and divisive or we can refuse to play into it and thus show it the respect it deserves...none!! I choose the latter...how about you??

As a fire instructor I had to again notice the push back from the chief who stated he only had to take a 60 hr course, and now it is 112 hrs. "Who wants to drive 2x a week to Carmel". It is thinking like that NY State is on the lower
end of FF-1 course hours. And that always leads to the Career vs Volunteer debate. The last class of recruits traveled 5x a week, 8 hrs a day, for 16 weeks. That is 640 Hrs. With the constant threat of failing out due to poor grades, or not being able to pass CPAT. 19 out of 20 that started finished. It isn't a game, it isn't about how many members your
dept has, it is about giving the customer the service that is expected from a group of people that raised their right hand a swore to protect to the best of their ability the life and property of the residents of their community. If we do nothing the fire will still go out. The ends don't justify the means. TRAINING TRAINING TRAINING AND DEDICATED MEMBERS.

He gives new meaning to the term "hood", or should i say "hoodie"

That kids depth has a good dental and eye glass plan

It's a no no when anyone, who is supposed to be operating at a fire scene, is taking pictures instead. Paid or volunteer, I don't think anyone is stopping during an operation to take group shots. If so shame on them. You obviously have an axe to grind with the FDNY but there's a legion of buffs who follow them around taking pictures, is that so wrong? No one is "grandstanding", and guys take pictures together after a job? There's nothing wrong with that on either side of the fence. You're ignorant if you think that guys are just out for 3/4, it's not an FDNY problem, there are just as many skells in every job, FD, PD, EMS, nameless other civil service jobs, and even the private sector who are just out to get theirs, to bilk the system and sit on their a-- collecting checks. I'm sure as a NYCMEDIC you see plenty of people abusing every system out there. Quit whining like you know what's going on if you want to ignore that larger truth about people and society as a whole, there are dregs everywhere.
As far as who calls themselves a fireman, it's all about training. I wouldn't go as far as to say most volunteers are capable, a good amount definitely, career guys with more training, sure there are still some useless ones but not quite as many. Their are plenty of useless EMTS and Medics out there too, and police officers on the rubber gun squad, we all know at least one or two. Being paid isn't the difference, training and ability is the difference. If someone said they just wanted to volunteer and help, had no training and about all they knew how to do was put on a bandaid, would you let them run around and call themselves paramedics, stick needles in people's arms, intubate, and give drugs. Oh and would you respect them more because it was free? Do you respect volunteer medics more than yourself? Or guys who just do it for less even? I know I know, there are licensing and education requirements for paramedics, but then following that logic, shouldn't the same kind of standards exist for firemen too? Go ahead though and think it's the fact that someone who does something for free deserves respect rather than someone who actually cares about being good at their profession and knows what they are doing, be it career or volunteer.
One more aside, it seems to be very common that the people who are the most inept and incapable, are the ones who don't realize this fact at all.

http://www.firefightercancersupport.org/
Please, if you know any firefighter or a firefighter with a family member struggling with this horrible disease please contact this group. They are supported across the full spectrum of the fire service and are completely non-partisan in their efforts.

This was sent to me on Facebook, so I'm sharing it here to get the word out. We sent ours this morning.

http://www.wvec.com/home/267418521.html

There has been an increasing amount of LODD reports of firefighters and EMS of all ages and physical conditions dropping on scene or within 24 hours lately of sudden cardiac arrest, some after working heavy fire scenes. The FDNY and Houston FD firefighters who recently went down on scene and were pulled out in full cardiac arrest were relatively young, very experienced, and had the same descriptor about their original condition - burns around the face, nose and mouth and inhalation burns. The LODD reports are going to take about 12-18 months for the full investigations and reports to be done. Last year during the summer or fall there was a report issued stating that SCBA face pieces were showing up that were defective in materials and craftsmanship and they found in a number of cases that the face pieces were either melting in less than extreme conditions or the glue binding the face piece to the rest of the mask was failing, injuring more and more firefighters. If that were the case in these instances, neither firefighter stood a chance because of the situation they were in, because by the time they would have noticed it, they were too deep into the fire area, and that would make their deaths even more tragic. Right now that would just be conjecture, but the possibility exists.
We have fit testing every year with our personal masks. With the Departments that go through a lot of masks and fire work/calls, could they be starting to fail and letting in CO and other poisonous gases, which in a cumulative amount could lead to a LODD but not be suspected as the initial cause? I can imagine FF throwing the mask on and not fully checking for full seal when having back-to-back calls due to them being confident they are putting it on right, and they are, but short of testing each and every time, which would seem ridiculous, can anyone see how to catch these defective masks before a catastrophic failure?
Wish there was an easy way...............

Date: 7/13/14
Time: Approximately 0400
Location: JFK Blvd W & Communipaw Ave
Units: JCPD, Port Authority Police (including ESU), Hudson County Sheriff SWAT, FDJC, JCMC EMS
***Updated after Mayor's press conference***

Description: Jersey City Police MOS exchanged gunfire with a suspect inside a Walgreens at JFK and Communipaw. The suspect took a weapon from a Walgreens security guard. Officer was hit and transported to JCMC where he succumbed to his injuries. The Officer's murderer was also killed. ESU/SWAT elements conducted thorough search of the store and surrounding areas.
The Fallen Member has been identified as Police Officer Melvin Santiago.  Rest in Peace Officer.

Sage Vigiles started this through Incident Alerts, and do not know how to post link to actual article in Daily News (could not get full link name). Rookie Officer Melvin Santiago, fresh out of the academy in December, was executed by a gunman who "wanted to be famous" and lay in wait for the responding officers. The sub-human what's-his-name was wanted for a previous murder, and his partner in that crime is still on the loose - do not know if he has the same mentality.
Our sincere prayers, condolences and sympathy go to the young officer's family, friends and fellow officers as they grieve this senseless act of murder, and hope they find strength and comfort some way. He was only 23 and did not deserve anything like this from that dirt bag, who was killed by returning police gunfire. Hope they get the other suspect he was earlier teamed with very, very soon. - update: They picked up the other suspect in the earlier homicide investigation on Monday. -
Prayers and thoughts also go to Officer Santiago's partner, Officer Ismael Martinez, as he tries to mentally recover and deal with what happened to him and his partner - no one should have to go through that. Ever.

Sage Vigiles started this through Incident Alerts, and do not know how to post link to actual article in Daily News (could not get full link name). Rookie Officer Melvin Santiago, fresh out of the academy in December, was executed by a gunman who "wanted to be famous" and lay in wait for the responding officers. The sub-human what's-his-name was wanted for a previous murder, and his partner in that crime is still on the loose - do not know if he has the same mentality.
Our sincere prayers, condolences and sympathy go to the young officer's family, friends and fellow officers as they grieve this senseless act of murder, and hope they find strength and comfort some way. He was only 23 and did not deserve anything like this from that dirt bag, who was killed by returning police gunfire. Hope they get the other suspect he was earlier teamed with very, very soon. - update: They picked up the other suspect in the earlier homicide investigation on Monday. -
Prayers and thoughts also go to Officer Santiago's partner, Officer Ismael Martinez, as he tries to mentally recover and deal with what happened to him and his partner - no one should have to go through that. Ever.

There has been an increasing amount of LODD reports of firefighters and EMS of all ages and physical conditions dropping on scene or within 24 hours lately of sudden cardiac arrest, some after working heavy fire scenes. The FDNY and Houston FD firefighters who recently went down on scene and were pulled out in full cardiac arrest were relatively young, very experienced, and had the same descriptor about their original condition - burns around the face, nose and mouth and inhalation burns. The LODD reports are going to take about 12-18 months for the full investigations and reports to be done. Last year during the summer or fall there was a report issued stating that SCBA face pieces were showing up that were defective in materials and craftsmanship and they found in a number of cases that the face pieces were either melting in less than extreme conditions or the glue binding the face piece to the rest of the mask was failing, injuring more and more firefighters. If that were the case in these instances, neither firefighter stood a chance because of the situation they were in, because by the time they would have noticed it, they were too deep into the fire area, and that would make their deaths even more tragic. Right now that would just be conjecture, but the possibility exists.
We have fit testing every year with our personal masks. With the Departments that go through a lot of masks and fire work/calls, could they be starting to fail and letting in CO and other poisonous gases, which in a cumulative amount could lead to a LODD but not be suspected as the initial cause? I can imagine FF throwing the mask on and not fully checking for full seal when having back-to-back calls due to them being confident they are putting it on right, and they are, but short of testing each and every time, which would seem ridiculous, can anyone see how to catch these defective masks before a catastrophic failure?
Wish there was an easy way...............

When the Union President stated that it was okay to just tell the other paid firefighter that he was sick and left the job without telling anyone else, that hits me as extremely strange, especially since he was one of only two paid on duty. Shouldn't someone on the administrative end have been notified who could call in another one of the paid guys, like the part-time one they mentioned, to cover and finish his shift?
Yes, going home sick without notification to management and possibly being relieved is certainly "extremely strange" to most of us, but as Bnechis pointed out, this isn't a unique situation.
I can fully understand why he had at least a five-day suspension, cannot see why they are rescinding and back-paying him for that just to avoid the expenses of a full law suit trial.
Based on the information presented in the article linked, I got the impression that the suspension was a secondary matter. The main matter being litigated was the unilateral changes to compensation and work schedule that the fire company imposed. These actions were clearly a violation of labor law and if the matter proceeded, the company would (in all likelihood) have lost the matter and spend substantial money on attorney/court costs and then additional back wages for what could easily be an additional 6-12 months while that process played out.
He left them short-handed without telling anyone else but his co-worker, and unless they did not have any calls to cover in that time period and lucked out, cannot see any justification for his thinking that was okay because "that's how it was done in the past". Same lame excuse the Charleston commander gave without seeing anything wrong with not giving report to the arriving IC and ignoring ICS and NIMS, even though he lost 9 firefighters in the fire and collapse. Though admittedly very different scenarios, but same ignorant attitude.
Again, if the fire company has no written policy regarding this type of situation, then you have to look at "informal policy", also known as "past practice" for guidance on what to do. Based on the "that's how it was done in the past" comment, it's highly likely that there isn't a written policy. So, if it has been common practice to not make notification to management when someone leaves work for whatever reason and management has failed to correct that practice from its onset or thru subsequent negotiations with the union, the fire company doesn't have a basis for imposing discipline in this case, barring other extenuating circumstances that substantially make this situation different from those in the past.
Since the judge ruled to overturn the suspension, I would guess that the fire company failed to show an established policy or practice that was violated and probably failed to show past disciplinary measures for prior occurrences.
If I tried that at work, I might be looking for another job relatively quickly.
I probably would be too, but we have a clearly understood procedure for this type of situation. You have to notify the on-duty shift boss for the OK to leave.

1) Many small combo depts. that do not have a career chief or admin operate this way. A common complaint to the IAFF is total lack of admin policies & procedures. I have seen a number of these depts. that routinely will not replace career members, even for scheduled time off.
2) Because labor laws are pretty clear, if they do not have a written policy, then management is wrong and they are going to lose the case. better to drop it before paying the lawyers to lose it.
3) Because that's how they do it. In other words that's this depts. policy. Stupid policy yes, but their are lots of stupid policies out there.

The problem with the SCBA facepieces was not that there was an issue of inferior workmanship. After a number of LODDs and serious injuries NIST did some investigation and determined that the tests that a facepiece required to pass NFPA certification were inferior to those that the rest of the PPE needed to pass. After some some hard work by NIST and their work with the NFPA committee the most recent SCBA standard (1981-2013) greatly increases the performance requirements of SCBA. All facepieces now being sold are compliant with the standard. The IAFC issued an alert on the subject a few years ago and recommended that fire departments budget to replace facepieces upon adoption of the new standard. I know some have done so.
Does this have anything to do with the most recent LODDs? Only time will tell.
What must be remembered is that even with the advancements in PPE in the last 40 years if you are in a flashover with even the best PPE you have less than 20 seconds. Gear is so good now that firefighters that have found themselves in some of these "flow-path" incidents have actually received fatal burn injuries inside their gear that did not degrade. The true weak link in the whole ensemble is the human inside the gear.
My personal opinion is our best defense is the smart firefighter that is able to understand the situation and match the strategy and tactics they employ with the situation they find.
Sorry if I sound like a broken record.

On the subject Just a little reading material for all intrested
http://firefightertoolbox.com/firefighter-ppe-whats-our-weakest-link/

Sue, it's probably a little early to speculate as to whether or not face piece failures were a factor in either of these LODDs. If there was some kind of issue I'm sure the FDNY Safety Battalion or NIOSH will note that when the investigations conclude. Trying to nail down a trend right now would be premature, in my opinion.

There has been an increasing amount of LODD reports of firefighters and EMS of all ages and physical conditions dropping on scene or within 24 hours lately of sudden cardiac arrest, some after working heavy fire scenes. The FDNY and Houston FD firefighters who recently went down on scene and were pulled out in full cardiac arrest were relatively young, very experienced, and had the same descriptor about their original condition - burns around the face, nose and mouth and inhalation burns. The LODD reports are going to take about 12-18 months for the full investigations and reports to be done. Last year during the summer or fall there was a report issued stating that SCBA face pieces were showing up that were defective in materials and craftsmanship and they found in a number of cases that the face pieces were either melting in less than extreme conditions or the glue binding the face piece to the rest of the mask was failing, injuring more and more firefighters. If that were the case in these instances, neither firefighter stood a chance because of the situation they were in, because by the time they would have noticed it, they were too deep into the fire area, and that would make their deaths even more tragic. Right now that would just be conjecture, but the possibility exists.
We have fit testing every year with our personal masks. With the Departments that go through a lot of masks and fire work/calls, could they be starting to fail and letting in CO and other poisonous gases, which in a cumulative amount could lead to a LODD but not be suspected as the initial cause? I can imagine FF throwing the mask on and not fully checking for full seal when having back-to-back calls due to them being confident they are putting it on right, and they are, but short of testing each and every time, which would seem ridiculous, can anyone see how to catch these defective masks before a catastrophic failure?
Wish there was an easy way...............

So you take one physical fitness test and you are good for 20+ years. Cash in the pocket of your loved ones should you die, Health benefits paid for. You are a perfect example of why the fire service is going down the tubes. Not a mention of training, having a desire to be in the fire service, wanting to learn and teach those younger than you. BTW your last sentence is apparently a bash at volunteers, and I and many of my brothers respond day and night along with weekends! I would rather crawl down a hall with a younger volunteer fresh out of FF 1 and 2 than some of the career guys who have been holding on for 30+ years without doing a sit up.

Hey no worries about making me wait. I was just curious if your claim that the title firefighter is a civil service title was something legit or just more of the BS that you spew on this site.FYI "real" firefighters never have to delineate themselves as such.
Nighty night!

Barry I remember many a night in bed at night in station 1 overnight when the rigs were backing in upstairs. The sounds the ceiling made as the trucks entered the bay had me in fear I would be crushed. No idea what the weight rating was and how close it was to the weight it had to bear, but the cracking noise was impressive.

Some of the comments have been assuming that this is the fault of the apparatus spec committee, but I have seen a couple of other issues out there.
I know a number of depts. that have made it clear to their City, town, village or Board of Commissioners that the new truck they will need in a few years will have a problem and the house needs to be modified before that point. This is often ignored. In this case the existing 10 year old truck is too heavy, so how long has this been an issue? I bet for 10 years, so its hard to blame the current committee or the apparatus manufacturer.
I have seen a few depts. that have bought rigs knowing they would not fit, with the hope that the committee would then replace the fire house. In some cases this worked, but it often meant the rig was under a tarp for 2 or 3 years rotting while the house was fixed/replaced.
In Conn. it is the law that each bay have a max weight rating. In NYS just load it up till it collapses.