FF1

And herein lies one of the major pitfalls of requirements if taken too far. Some departments in an effort to ensure only qualified people fill positions make the standards difficult to meet and end up having vacant positions. Others cast in stone the requirements and then don't provide a means for members to achieve them. Worse of all though is when the "clique of the moment" sets standards that only they posses and then do everything possible to keep others from attaining them so they can hold on to the reins. Setting Officer standards can be a great way to help move a department forward, but they have to be tailored to the realities of the membership that is going have to fulfill them, otherwise they become counter productive and ultimately detrimental to the department itself.

There are ways to address this situation.

1) Any requirements should be set based on a realistic assessment of the practical needs of the department and not necessarily what the NFPA suggests or your neighboring departments are doing

2) Requirements must be attainable and that means more than anything else that if a department is going to require certification X, X and X that they then provide the classes necessary (or access to them) and pay for them as well

3) Begin the process slowly and work up to the goal. If no one is FF 2 it's impossible to require Officer 1 and expect you'll have qualified candidates. You'll find yourself with great requirements but no officers that meet them.

4) Allow members to be voted in (or appointed) with the provision that they must attain the desired requirements within a set time frame to remain in the position

5) Set FF requirements such as FF 1 or FF 2 first and get the majority of the membership to that level so that a springboard exists to move on to officer requirements such as Instructor and Officer 1.

6) Remember you only have to get the vote once, so no matter how many times the meeting shoots down a proposal keep working on it. If a change of tactic or a change of face is what's needed to get the message through, DO IT!!

Agreed. we suspended the requirements for 2 years and allowed current and perspective officers time to achieve the requirements. When the 2 years were up, the requirements came back into effect. Many guys took zero classes and simply cannot run. I feel like we were very lenient and provided ample time. As they say, you can lead a horse to water, but cannot make it drink.

Another issue that some may not consider is the liability. If I wasn't properly trained (that is a loose term, because there is no concrete requirement that is standard for officers) I wouldn't want to run.

Reason being, : If you sent a crew into a fire and something goes wrong, lets say a flashover for arguments sake. You have members that got hurt and now this is being investigated, If you have 7 years with a boatload of training and 40% attendance, this will be considered an accident and insurance kicks in and it takes its normal course.

If you have 1 year of 20% attendance and FF1 and 1 or 2 more and the same situation occurs, you can and will be held personally liable for endangering your crew by making a decision that you are not properly trained to make

without getting into specifics, My department has a years, training class, and active % requirement for officers. We are so strict to this that we have a vacant position. even if you are short 1 day in the years category, you cant run. A line must be drawn otherwise your requirements are worthless

You do not hear anywhere on this thread that " I was beat out by a better guy" or "It was a pick em', two equals going for the same spot and I lost fair and square"

It seems like there is a giant conspiracy throughout the state and no matter who looses, Its fixed or the system sucks or they are quitting the department now that the didn't get the position that they wanted.

I don't want to hear the popularity contest in the volunteer ranks argument anymore either. Every organization has a popularity contest in some capacity.

Some career jobs also see this. One of the top 3 scores can be made. What does that mean? Whoever the Chief, Mayor and Commissioner wants to be Chief, Captain, or Lieutenant gets the job. You can be #1 on the promotional list for 20 years and get beat out by #2 and #3 every time a promotion comes up.

Life sucks. Crappy things happen (being voted out in favor of an inferior firefighter due to popularity), but giving up isn't a feasible option. Most of us live, work or live and work in the communities that we protect. How is quitting an admirable thing to do? You complain that you all are superstar firefighters that would improve the dept. being in an officer position, so if you are such an asset and joined and remained so active because you love doing this, then why would you give up and let the other guys win?

makes no sense to me. If that was me I would stay active protect my community. Staying active and giving your input more than ever will work toward accomplishing what you want. Quitting lets the other guys win.

Sometimes in life the best lessons are learned from failure, so why don't you guys try to learn and grow from this? Stop making excuses and blaming the system, the district, the department, ect. Let this make you all better people and firefighters and hopefully be persistent and go for office again next time around.

Spoken like a true a******...I'm sure you have the majority vote from the brainiacs in your department!!!

I beg to differ.

nothing that 585 said was disrespectful or rude. I don't think calling names is warranted.

If my information is correct, 585 just finished his term as Chief and was one of the more respected, proactive Chiefs in the county.

He stated the hard facts. The election system is broken and there is no concrete fix. All the courses in the world wont make you a leader and wont give you the respect of your peers. Respect is earned

Larchmont FD

Engine 33 1993 Seagrave

Engine 34 1991 Pierce

Tower Ladder 7 1996 Sutphen

I have to respectfully disagree with you. You should be able to read the conditions around you to make good decisions without having to "feel" the fire. BE AWARE OF YOUR SURROUNDINGS CONSTANTLY. God forbid you need to bail out or a mayday is called and you are not in an ideal location, I would want myself and the other members of my department, or any department for that matter, to have the BEST PPE to give the best protection to that firefighter until that brother is safe.

I hear you. To clarify, I do agree... continuous size up is paramount. You always monitor conditions. My point on the hoods is, you can get antiquate protection, yet begin to feel heat when the temperature reaches a certain level.

I agree whole heartedly that size up is the 1 thing you live and die by, but it doesn't hurt to be able to have a second sense (feel) giving you another view of conditions.

these hoods are getting TOO good in my opinion. Reason being, yes, you want protection, but you also want to be able to "feel" the heat a bit. this will allow one more sense to give you an idea od conditions. These new hoods can practically be brought into an inferno and wont let you feel a thing

No. Its another class

In thelate 1980's and early 1990's The mayor and most if not all members of the common council were volunteers. they also were the ones who agreed to the contracts and in effect were "the powers that be"

It was rumored that many parties were held with those funds. It always sounded like those parties were really political events.

thanks for the info Capt. I was not aware of who these members were. That seems very interesting to me. Makes not sense to complain if they, themselves were the ones that voted on this, yet not complain about it.

reality workwear in port chester / rye brook its right on the boarder.

brothers on gun hill road in the Bronx isn't that far either.

new England sportswear in white plains too

also Roberts on Mamaroneck has a limited supply of bdus and shirts, but in a bind, they do have stuff, just not the largest selection

FORCED OUT? Let me guess...no training, no fit tests, no physicals, no clue. Dude it aint about responding but about operating safely. What are these Wallys going to do once they respond if they have no training?

correction. they didn't leave on their own. the city chose to go fully career (which I have no opinion on) I'm all for more jobs. I mean to say that they had no choice in the matter. WP disbanded the volunteers, so its not as if they refuse to train and only come to parades

Sounds like theft to me. But hey, Parades are good for communities right guys? Whata joke!

they would respond to fires if they could. they are essentially forced out of firefighting duties by the powers that be. the only theft involved would be forcing them out so 2% funds would go entirely to the career staff

If your trying to get hired in CT you will need to take the CPAT to even sit for most tests. It is offered every couple of months by the state check the website. A lot of CT departments also require EMT certification for testing. Just an FYI. They are hiring, there is a class of 55 going through the state academy right now.

You are correct on that, but only take it with a grain of salt, because they use the state academy with the exception of new haven, Bridgeport, and sometimes Stamford.

Basically all other depts. send recruits through the state academy.

NY has multiple academys throughout the state.

They are probably hiring at the same rate as most. the baby boomers are going, yet they are still trying to do more with less all throughout the country.

best advice is to study hard and take everything. if you want it bad enough you will get it. you just need to keep on pushing toward your goal

Have a pulse....... That's a joke, but there may be a bit of truth due to the extremely low pay in this career. The pay is causing the character of employee simply because of this.

My advice for any interview, not just for in the emergency service field is the following :

Wear a suit - Navy or Grey is best, but black will do (black is a tad bit formal)

Wear a white dress shirt and a tie. Neutral color tie is proper, no funky patterns

Wear dress socks and shoes.

Get a haircut the day before, shave the morning of and groom your fingernails.

Arrive to the interview 15-20 minutes early and leave home with ample time to spare in case of traffic or car trouble.

Shake hands with a medium grip. Firm, but not so you crush knuckles, yet not to the point of a dead fish handshake feeling

Make eye contact with handshakes and while talking to your interviewer.

Maintain good posture while in the interview with your back straight while sitting and your hands forward in front of you. DO NOT cross arms as this is a body language sign that you are hiding something.

Always answer the question being asked to the best of your ability. Nothing more and nothing less. DO NOT volunteer any information you aren't being asked as this make open doors to further questions that you may not be prepared to answer. Ask for clarification if the question being asked is not totally clear to you.

Do not ramble or repeat yourself while answering any questions

Always be honest. If you lie or stretch the truth, it always will be discovered at some point.

Be polite and be respectful. (Yes Sir No Maim)

Thank them for their time and consideration after the interview

Hope this helps

I am sorry but the house burned to the ground because the fire dept could not utilize the water that was within 100' from the home. It had nothing to do with lack of dredging. It had everything to do with lack of preplanning and passing local fire codes, particularly since the previous home at that location also burned to the ground.

If dry hydrants had been installled in that lake or the lake across the road, it would have been saved. If depts had standardized fittings and knew how to relay it might have been saved, if depts had the ability to get the water thru other means (drafting is not the only way to get it from a static source).

BTW it was not a creek, they had 2 monster lakes one on either side of the road.

You are probably correct, Capt.

I was just mentioning an instance that I have heard of second hand. I do not live or voli up there, so this was only what I heard.

Just making an example.

South Salem had that fire this past January. The house was on a peninsula in a non - hydrant area. The creek around the home was not dredged and was unable to draft from. The house essentially burned to the ground after the water was exhausted from engines and tankers, because the closest water source was very far from the fire

I volunteer to help my community and do something productive with my time. I LOVE being a fireman.

I also understand and respect not responding to career depts. that are getting shafted with layoffs and hiring freezes I get it.

I never got into the career vs volunteer bs, so please don't interpret this as that.

My question is : Where is the brotherhood in career members complaining in one breath about the lack of manpower, but then complaining again when they hire because their overtime is either cut or now nonexistent with the new hires

10-75 or working fire is an abbreviation of "working structure fire"

My interpretation of this is any fire where the structure is involved and additional units are needed. (FAST, relocations, 2nd ladder, ect.)

No sh*t. I know the kid very well...

and a brother from my fire company who was on the bus that day, along with an in law of mine from VMFD was there too...... I think, due to the overall operation, its better to thank the entire group involved.

way to be professional with the no sh*t. totally uncalled for.

Good Job Andersen!

Good Job everyone.....one person doesn't make a save. This wouldn't have ended as well if even one of the first responders there was taken out of the mix.

LVAC, VMPD, VMFD and MEMS deserves a big "atta boy!" for there efforts that made a difference that day

Date:7/30/13
Time:10:26
Location:655 Old White Plains Rd X Madison St
Units: 2241, 2242, 2242 E40, E41, E42, TL20, 68A2, 4911

Description: VMFD dispatched to the above address for smoke in the kitchen.

E-42 on location with the hydrant (10:30)

TL-20 on location with smoke showing in the rear and a slight burning in the kitchen (10:33)

TL-20 requesting a 10-75 (10:36)

4911 on location requesting EMS to standby (10:41)

2241 reporting the main body of fire is knocked down. (10:54)

2241 reporting the fire is under control. Holding all units for ventilation (11:02)

Is New Rochelle FD dispatched by 60 Control?

yes

hastings-on-husdon

does anyone know where they are in the list?

90's