Avon Rob

 
 
A little blast from the past here, 14 years ago. Former Forum Admin Truck 4 produced this awesome feature and there are no words I can say of how appreciative of him for this. 2004 was a busy and tragic year in Westchester.  Links in the Incident Alert dicussion thread do not work but I will update those soon. Click on the links to view the Incident Alert. I'm proud that we have a searchable database of 14 years worth of topics that you can research.
 
If you want to see more EMTBravo.com Blasts From The Past from our archives, please hit "Like" on this post.
 
Incidents were selected by a panel of EMTBravo.com moderators and select members by vote and also ranked based on, with no factor holding any more weight than another, size and scope of incident, response to incident, loss of life, effect on response, training and operating policy. EMTBravo Network Incident Alert Moderator Truck4 Created And Developed The Idea For This List, As Well As Compiled, Ranked, And Wrote All The Information. Special Thanks To Truck4 For His Work On This Project, And To All Who Participated And Supported This Project.
 
 

Doesn't matter when the article was published, because it could still be published tomorrow and the problems exactly the same. I think it's an excellent piece that the author reflected in the correct light.
 
VAC's provided a valuable service when Westchester was smaller, more affordable, and people truly cared about the communities they lived in and the neighbors they lived with. I used to know everybody in the community I grew up in, it was blue collar, now it is a whole different world.
 
Just like you're never going to find volunteer nurses, the volunteer EMT is becoming extinct as well. The training is increasing, and there's no attempts to make it any easier. Whereas VAC's used to respond to mostly true emergencies within the communities, they are now forced to deal with the abuse of EMS, especially by mammoth senior citizen "health care" communities that have turned EMS agencies upside down.  That also contributes significantly to volunteer burnout.  EMS is also slowly emerging as a profession on a national level, and New York State will be the last to embrace that.
 
When Westchester decides to let 60 Control actually use their judgment to decide what resources to send, which units where, and for Westchester to be a single, unified regional system, public/private partnership, is when the problem will be solved.

Too bad this wasn't in time to help Sleepy Hollow?

The quarters are very tight both width & height. Hope it fits!

Does 'signing on' mean that they will handle the call? Here in Monmouth County, we sign on and say that " we are on the ramp, awaiting a crew". The county will continue to tone out until either, a third tone or we are in service. Automatically goes to mutual aid on 3rd set of tones, or if original squad requests mutual aid. Time elapsed between original tone and mutual aid is about 20 minutes, Most squads answer call within 2 alerts. Just wondering as to Westchester protocol.

Is there a protocol in place that would automatically call for mutual aid after a certain number of pages w/o anyone going in service?

The Glenville Fire Company, located in the Glenville section of the Town of Greenburgh, address is Tarrytown. They hopefully still have their Sanford Cub engine. Last I knew, Walter Gregory was maintaining the rig. Back in the late 60's (?) they had a fire in the firehouse. The fire shorted out the fire siren that actually sounded. .From oral history, they were basically a brush fire unit before Route 287 and a modern Route 119 allowed the area to grow. Protection area extends fro Hackley School, Benedict Avenue to the Marriott Hotel, and from Springhill Suites on Route 119, the Tarrytown border.

Engine 969, GREAT IDEA!! Greenburgh PD could do the job. Only problem is GPD building is antiquated and space would be a major issue.

The problem of illegal housing is not new, and is not restricted to any one area. As to finding new walls, your training should have taught you to expect the unexpected. Many years ago in Sleepy Hollow, there was a tragic loss of life at a building fire. Investigation found that the building was listed as a 4 family, not 20+ single room occupancies. There was no fire/life safety code compliance. The paneling on the halls was non-rated. The victims family actually won a wrongful death suit in court. I actually reported landlords with illegal income to the IRS. They loved getting that type of case. Hard evidence of non-reported income & false tax returns.
All this being said, as long as politicians take "donations', they will not back either code enforcement or the emergency services. The campaign in Rockland County has exposed many violations, but has it made a major difference in compliance. Just remember to be careful & watch out for your partners at any alarm.

I just want to clarify (I'm not arguing with you as I agree 100% with what you said, just realized that I didn't explain where I was coming from with the paid-chauffeur comment)...I was not promoting the addition of a paid chauffeur. I think that this is a natural in-between step (wrong or right) in the transition process. I was a member of a fire company in SE Connecticut when I was in college that had paid chauffeurs on during the day (M-F 7a-5p). What has happened since? It evolved into a paid Chauffeur and an officer. Then became a paid chauffeur, an officer, and a firefighter. AND they added a late shift (2 Shifts, 7-3 & 3-11) Now they are on the verge of being a paid department. I think the chauffeur is the first step in the evolutionary process. The departments hire a "custodian" or a "building manager" to help out during the day but just so happens to be a FF/EMT and have a CDL (I know you don't need one in NY, just making the point that he's a truck driver). This business is slow to change and must improvement will come slowly. These places aren't going to change from volunteer to paid overnight like the flip of a light switch...especially not with the inertia that will be created by the past volunteers who "have been serving selflessly for over 100 years." Unfortunately, their selfless devotion just doesn't cut it anymore.

Back to what's wrong with the site, there are lots of good criticisms and ideas to make things better, but we are just talking amongst ourselves and none of the ideas ever seems to get to someone who can effect change.
We all know the volunteer departments are hurting, especially ems. You just have to monitor the scanner and hear the re-tones to know that. Why don't officials from local governments know what is happening? Are the Chiefs too proud to talk about the problem?
I was a volunteer for 37 years. I stared in ems when it was still Red Cross first aid training and I became one of the first EMT's in my department when that program was first introduced back in the early 70's. But over the years things have changed both with fire and ems and I don't think it is possible to balance job, family and fire/ems anymore and be truly proficient at each.
My Grandfather was Hope Hose, my father Hope Hose and Hilltop and my myself, my brothers and their sons Scarborough. I believe my nephews to be the last generation of a 100% volunteer department. We used to go out to reported fires, now departments go out for 'lock-outs'. People used to take themselves to the emergency room, now an ambulance is dispatched for a 'not feel well'. Call volumes for less than true emergencies have skyrocketed and for volunteers its a problem. You shouldn't pick and choose, but when the alarm comes in at 3:00 AM for New Dorm at Pace, you know damn well its another microwave popcorn call and you will get turned around if you even make it to the firehouse before the call is cancelled.
I know that the paid guys will say, what if it isn't the popcorn? Well that is one big difference between paid and volunteer. You are already at the station, dedicating a specific period of time to respond to calls. You are not already at your 'regular' job, getting prepared for work, taking care of children, whatever you may be doing at any time of the day or night and have to stop and go out the door to a call, 90% or more that will be unnecessary because of either our increased Nanny State mentality of our fear of legal liability for not answering a call initiated by some electronic device somewhere. Gone too are the days of the police checking it out before dispatching additional services.
So, I don't see call volume decreasing so I see increased demands on time for calls and time for training. Firefighting is a young persons job and today there are a lot more demands on young people who are dealing with getting an education and a job, starting a family and giving back the time to devote to fire/ems is more difficult. I think that it is inevitable for volunteer departments to have to transition to, initially some paid, especially days, and eventually to paid. I also feel that a County department is the answer and I don't want to hear about the law.
Change the laws if they need to be changed, Apparently you only need three people in Albany to do anything so how hard can it be. I have been in the South for almost 10 years and in both the towns I have lived in they were covered by the County for Sheriffs, Fire and EMS. The larger cities still had their own, but the rest of the towns and villages were covered by the County with a lot fewer stations and apparatus than cover Westchester. And, Palm Beach County has 30% more people and 5X the area of Westchester.
Some who haven't been around that long won't remember that the County PD used to be the Parkway PD. They embarked on an expansion and redefinition of themselves and have emerged as a major player in law enforcement.
Is there no public safety committee within the State and/or County legislatures that is willing to take on the problems in fire/ems? These are life and death issues that you would think demand some attention from our elected officials.
Oh, by the way, there is no Nirvana, my current County (Marion) department is losing personnel at an alarming rate to other City and County departments that pay better. Firefighter/Emts are making about $10-$12 dollars an hour and the local County officials refuse to address the issue because they can't find the money without raising taxes. And Palm Beach (City) is bitching that the County is poaching the City's firefighters after the City has spent the money to train them.
Let's come back this next year. Nothing will have changed. In the end, it's all politics.

Well said. It has always been a mystery to me why in Westchester County, an area know for its wealth, an area of generally educated people that a volunteer system established in the 1940's to about 1960, is still allowed to operate. The department lines were drawn largely in the horse drawn hose carrier days and persist today.
I give nothing but kudos to the great volunteers both fire and ems.But folks, it is time to re evaluate.

The problem that presents itself is a paradox. Not enough fires per square mile to justify full-time, paid fire departments (and the costs of benefits, retirement, etc.)...but not so few fires that we can just count our losses and ignore the problem entirely. Your typical volunteer crew of 5 guys (or gals), 2 or 3 who have a bit of experience and a level head on their shoulders can typically handle your run-of-the-mill calls for food on the stove, a residential lock-out, or a car into the ditch. But when there is a fire every 2-3 years and that crew of 3 or 5 guys simply will not suffice. They do the best that they can and either one guy makes a good call and puts the line in the right place to make a stop...or, they chase the fire from window to window around the house until it eventually goes out (we have all seen it). Either way, the fires happen so infrequently that the public doesn't even realize that there is a problem. There were 5 fires in my town (with 3 independent departments) in 2013-2014 and all 5 of the buildings (one of which was one of the firehouse) were heavily damaged if not completely destroyed by fire.
I think there is a serious problem with the volunteer fire service (at least in my area). The chiefs, officers, and members of the fire departments are hiding their manpower shortages in an effort to protect their department's longstanding tradition. They are afraid that, if the public knows how bad things really are, then they will be uprooted from their firehouses and replaced with paid firemen. The chief will lose his spot as chief (along with his power and his car), the men will lose their "clubhouse," and the longstanding tradition of the department that they enjoy so much will be a thing of the past. They will have, in their eyes, failed as a department...
I read a lot of articles about manpower shortages or interviews with chiefs where they consistently say things like "we can always use more volunteers and manpower is low at present but we continue to respond to every alarm." To me, this means that the chief goes to every alarm and one or two guys to the firehouse during the day to get a utility or mini-attack out the door. I know of many fire departments around that "respond to every alarm" where the chiefs all sign on, then go to the firehouse, get a rig, sign that rig on as well, and they have 5 units on the road but only have 3 people (Shhhh...it's a secret!). Again, the chief is cloaking the manpower problem by saying that they never miss a response. And, to the county it looks like they have stellar responses when in fact they don't.
Another way that departments hide their manpower shortages is by saying that they have "50 members on the roster" when, in reality, only 3-5 are very active. If you look at the websites of some of these departments under the "members" section they have tremendous lists of firefighters; but half of these people haven't been seen in more than 5 years. On the department's website for my town (of which I was previously a member) there are a few people listed as members who are dead (NOT EVEN KIDDING!). So when the town supervisor or a concerned citizen looks at the website and see all those names they think everything is great, when, in reality, it is just a facade.
Lastly, I always hear chiefs in the paper saying "we averaged 15 people per alarm last year (month, week, etc.)". How many of those people are qualified interior firefighters? I know that when I was a member, the Chief would tell the fire district every month that the department "averaged 12 members per call the previous month." 4 of the 12 were fire police in their '80s who came to every call; 3-4 of the 12 were junior members; and the rest were the chiefs and a few stragglers per call. Again, this "average" number is an illusion to hide the fact that departments these days just don't cut it.
I think fire chiefs and fire departments are coming up with inventive ways to hide manpower shortages because the solution to the problem is not desirable to them. They are stalling because they think things will get better on their own (I can't tell you how many times I've heard someone say "manpower comes in waves") where, in reality, you might get a good year or two with the addition of a few good members but the fact of the matter is that manpower has been on a steady decline for years. The real solution to the problem is going to eventually be the addition of a few paid chauffeurs to get the trucks out during the day, then eventually going to full-time staffing during the day. Then the volunteers can take over at night when there are more guys around who come home from work. But, the longer the volunteer leadership can hold off the better because they get to hold on to their little men's club and the pride of 100 years of service by their organization. They don't want the intrusion of paid firefighters in their space, they don't want paid vs. volunteer battles, they don't want union issues, and they don't want to be thrown out. Firefighting is fun and those of us who love it really enjoy doing what we do. If they bring in career firefighters, the volunteers won't get to do what they love to do anymore, be firemen. So they have to hide it to hold on to their job. Hopefully, no one will have to lose their life to evince change like we see everywhere else on this job!

Hap,
May you enjoy your well deserved retirement and a truck load of Messy Jessie hot dogs! Better than Walter's!!
Ex-450

Hap,
May you enjoy your well deserved retirement and a truck load of Messy Jessie hot dogs! Better than Walter's!!
Ex-450

Hap,
May you enjoy your well deserved retirement and a truck load of Messy Jessie hot dogs! Better than Walter's!!
Ex-450

If this turns out to be true, a sad day for both the village and the fire service. How can a man serve a second time as a chief, and be voted out? Lots of questions to be answered. Afraid that he will make them comply with OSHA & NFPA guidelines/regulations. This from a village that PESH deemed deliberately violated rules & regs. Shame on the Village Board. Is it true that the fire wardens voted that he advance at their meeting? Why hasn't the Journal News publish the results of the PESH determinations? The residents had a right to know PRIOR to the recent village elections. Didn't see much in either the Journal News or The Patch. Why?

If I recall correctly, the fire chief/commissioner usually fills out a list of desired engines & ladders, etc. that they wish on alarm assignments. I have buried somewhere a copy of the original mutual plan for Westchester County. I will post when I find it. I think part of the provisions was that you must offer to give mutual aid if requested in order to get mutual aid.

Jim Taxter Joe Butler Dan Berry Frank Brannigan

Billy, You were right in mentioning Tommy Brennan. He was a great speaker, and and even better friend when I ran the seminars. Always willing to stay and share with the students after all was over.

Jim Taxter Joe Butler Dan Berry Frank Brannigan

Jim Taxter Joe Butler Dan Berry Frank Brannigan

Jim Taxter Joe Butler Dan Berry Frank Brannigan

Gee....and here I thought that Pat Kelly combined ALL the departments in Westchester County. Atleast that is what he told Fla. when submitting his resume.

Chief Raftery is being modest as to the accomplishments of both his men and the surrounding mutual aid departments. They did such a good job, saving over 50% of the building, that it didn't require a fire sprinkler system when it was rebuilt. Enjoy your retirement Bill!