drgripsthrowawaytowel

We face liability in everything we do. Why don't man-up on auto alarms, reset the alarm system and advise the RP as you say.
There's Liability if we stay and wait for the RP, Liability if we reset and leave.
The Gamewell box system hit the streets in the late 18oo's, and FireMEN have been resetting systems ever since until you and your city attorney got a brainstorm that a no touch policy will get you off the iability hook.
Wrong! If anything happens, and I do mean anything, somebody might wind up suing you. If you are right of wrong, it is still going to cost you money. And your city attorney? He is often in his position because he was unable to start or buy into his own practice. In a couple of years he will save enough money to go into private practice and will "jump the fence." He will be the one suing you and taking your money.
Maybe we should stop calling ourselves "The Bravest."

The way the county calls it's 'alert levels" is inconsistent with the way the rest of the flight world. HPN has classified 3 different types of calls, Alert level 1, Alert level II and Alert Level III (have yet to figure out what they mean)... The rest of the world has Alert 1, Alert 2, and Alert 3, with levels 1-5. So you can have an "Alert 2 level 4" incident.
The levels are laid out like so:
Alert 1 Airport (Possible Crash) - minor problems or equipment failures
Alert 2 Airport (Probable Crash) - major problems (mechanical or electrical) or major failures of equipment / systems
Alert 3 Airport (Crash/Aircraft Incident)
Level 1) 1-2 Souls
Level 2) 3-10
Level 3) 11-25
Level 4) 26-50
Level 5) 51+
once again it seams as if the county wants to be completely different then the rest of the world......

If you've given up, get the hell out of the classroom. I've sat in classes taught by instructors that have "given up" and they usually suck! The best classes, and those that fill up the fastest, are taught by people with passion for the subject and their job as the instructor and more than just a little knowledge/experience. If you've got the knowledge and experience, dig up some passion and keep trying to educate the youth in the fire service. You may not be able to change the minds of other dinosaurs like me but we're not the ones that you have to pass the baton to.
We've all banged our heads against rock walls when people simply refuse to change or adapt. But as I read this thread you're doing the same thing. You're saying that we can't increase the standard because volunteers simply don't have the time and we should further water down our training and make it on-line. Most on-line training sucks. Most people don't actually train, they just look for the answers to the test questions and their fancy certificate. That's not training.
We need to cut the BS and establish a real standard for FF training in NY. Virtually every other state has done it and we can too. There's no reason for career FF to have one standard and volunteer FF to have another (that may not even be enforced). The time has come to do away with this interior/exterior crap and make everyone a firefighter. Can't do it? Fine, we'll find some other role for you but it won't be called firefighter. We've been whittling away at this stuff for too long and it makes me sick.
There's one standard for everyone else. Cop, EMT, paramedic, barber, cosmetologist. All one standard. FF, there's nothing. Unless you're a career FF and you have to meet the 229 regs. Other states do it, we can to. We just have to stop making excuses and start making changes!
Let's say the standard is 400 hours to be designated a firefighter. There's no reason why you can't break that down into courses that volunteers can take on a part-time schedule.
Time to stop the nonsense and start fixing this problem!

The way the county calls it's 'alert levels" is inconsistent with the way the rest of the flight world. HPN has classified 3 different types of calls, Alert level 1, Alert level II and Alert Level III (have yet to figure out what they mean)... The rest of the world has Alert 1, Alert 2, and Alert 3, with levels 1-5. So you can have an "Alert 2 level 4" incident.
The levels are laid out like so:
Alert 1 Airport (Possible Crash) - minor problems or equipment failures
Alert 2 Airport (Probable Crash) - major problems (mechanical or electrical) or major failures of equipment / systems
Alert 3 Airport (Crash/Aircraft Incident)
Level 1) 1-2 Souls
Level 2) 3-10
Level 3) 11-25
Level 4) 26-50
Level 5) 51+
once again it seams as if the county wants to be completely different then the rest of the world......

The way the county calls it's 'alert levels" is inconsistent with the way the rest of the flight world. HPN has classified 3 different types of calls, Alert level 1, Alert level II and Alert Level III (have yet to figure out what they mean)... The rest of the world has Alert 1, Alert 2, and Alert 3, with levels 1-5. So you can have an "Alert 2 level 4" incident.
The levels are laid out like so:
Alert 1 Airport (Possible Crash) - minor problems or equipment failures
Alert 2 Airport (Probable Crash) - major problems (mechanical or electrical) or major failures of equipment / systems
Alert 3 Airport (Crash/Aircraft Incident)
Level 1) 1-2 Souls
Level 2) 3-10
Level 3) 11-25
Level 4) 26-50
Level 5) 51+
once again it seams as if the county wants to be completely different then the rest of the world......

Anyone who claims that an increase in training will cause volunteer numbers to drop has their head up their brown pipe. Just take a look at numerous other states that require that volunteers are at par with career. No drop in membership, but an increase in effectiveness... imagine that!
If someone wants to quit because the requirements are too strict, good. gtfo. My life, my crews life, and the life of the public is too important to place on the back of a federally mandated 10 hours of OSHA training once a year. If you personally go out and train more, excellent. What needs to happen is the state needs to grow some cajones, manup, and force training requirements that are on par with your counterparts.
Unfortunately, this state's biggest opposition is FASNY, and it will take a large army to change anything.
Anyone who thinks otherwise has drank the kool-aid.

That about sums up Hatzolah. period.

Bingo

If I found out this is how my officer candidates got their answers, I'd be very disappointed. Look the web is great and serves to uncover all types of information, but looking in a forum for answers that should be found within one's own FD manuals is just crazy and another word that rhymes with it.

This event is a reminder of how our jobs as emergency responders is changing. Hats off to all of the responders - police, fire and ems - in Aurora for the courageous acts that day, including that of the dispatchers. I am sure there will be lessons learned from our brother and sister responders that we all can take home. Until such time, I won't comment on the events there but rather some of the lessons we have learned from other events.
Post analysis of the Columbine shooting and other high profile attacks revealed that first responders need to respond and react differently to hostile events. Hence new active shooter policies for police departments (i.e. rapid entry of patrol officers and not waiting for SWAT). One area that has been historically overlooked is how to treat/evacuate a mass number of victims from the "hot" zone. How do you reach and quickly extricate dozens, if not hundreds, of injured victims?
Fire and EMS need to be included as part of a coordinated response to a hostile event. Police quickly become overwhelmed. We (non law-enforcement) have been trained to wait for an "all clear" or to know the scene is completely "safe." Post incident analysis' has showed that this approach doesn't work. In Columbine, victims were bleeding out but were unable to be reached. Realistically, it can take upwards of a few hours for an area to be deemed safe (by our traditional definition).
There are efforts popping up across the county to address this issue. In Minnesota, for example, a program called 3E (3 Echo) is being rolled out that incorporates fire/ems into a coordinated response to a hostile event. The program is based on extensive research of past events both within the United States and across the world, taking best practices deploying in many countries (i.e. Israel) that see active terrorist activity, as well as research coming from the Iraq war. The program integrates police, fire and EMS into a coordinated, initial response with a goal to rapidly treat/evacuate massive numbers of patents within minutes (15-20 minutes or less) of a hostile event. From a fire/EMS perspective, it is a fairly significant shift in the paradigm of waiting blocks away for an "all clear" or for the scene to be 100% "safe." A collaborative approach will allow first responders to evaluate the risk/benefit, realizing that some risk will need to be taken. The key in this program is training, exercise and collaboration between first response agencies prior to an incident happening. Due to the sensitive and mission critical nature of the program, its training and policies, I can't go into much further detail online.
Our jobs are changing. The fire service isn't what it used to be 30-40 years ago. While we can only hope that events such as Columbine, Virginia Tech and now Aurora will not happen in our own community, we cannot ignore the reality that, in 2012, we need to take a better look at how we (police, fire and ems) will respond to a hostile event. Its our job.

Sonny, you really need to lighten up! This wasn't an annual inspection or an emergency response. It was a parade and they were having fun, as they should. I thought it was funny and I knew none of the back story or the relationship between Mill Plains and Brewster (thanks FitzJr for sharing).
I think the "skit" as fitz described it is a pleasant distraction from the line of trucks and the rigid formations of uniforms. So people may not have known the inner workings of the relationship between the departments but they had to laugh at the folly and the departure from the norm.
Personally, I'm glad someone was having fun! "LIKE" to the boys (and girls) from Mill Plains.

Why does it matter aside from maybe helping figure out what is wrong with the patient? Forget about how its just wrong to treat someone differently based upon a medical condition, what if they don't know they're carrying some disease. Everyone gets treated the same unless I suspect an infection requiring droplet precautions.
Moderator note: This was the very last post made by Lenny, before he left us for keeps. RIP.

I'm unwilling to blame any inanimate object for this crime, being a gun or a movie. So far I only count one person to blame for this ordeal, since the cops/feds are saying he acted alone..
I don't think infringing on ANY Constitutional rights (the 2nd OR the 1st) is the correct response to this kind of tragedy. Guns don't kill people, neither do movies or video games. I use all three and I've never killed anyone.
We as a nation need to stop deflecting the blame from the suspect to all these political issues that make us feel "uncomfortable" just because we can't comprehend why someone would do something like this. HE did it, HE'S the one responsible. I see more outrage in the news and online against gun owners/manufacturers, the government and the movie industry than I do against the animal who shot 71 people. There's something fundamentally wrong with THAT.
"Criminals thrive on the indulgence of society's understanding."
-Ra's Al Ghul in "Batman Begins"
Kind of fitting, isn't it?

Sounds like that they sent appropriate resources as they received updated from information from the PD units on scene. Also looks like the FD runs medic engines, so while it may have taken a few minutes to gather the transporting resources the victims were, i'm sure, being treated aggressively.
In all honesty, this is why 60 control needs to be the sole provider of dispatching and EMD resources for this entire county. I can't imagine the additional chaos decentralized communication would have added. Sad part is, it will take an event of this scale here to ever see that change happen.

http://www.lawofficer.com/video/news/audio-aurora-theater-shooting
Dispatch tapes from the incident. I hereby nominate this woman for the Dispatcher's Hall of Fame. Incredible.
Strange how long it took for them to get EMS units though, 10+ minutes in and the PD Commander is saying he's only got one ambulance on scene. As I recall greater Denver has one of the better "tactical paramedic" progams in the country.

Sounds like my love life

Sounds like my love life

Sounds like my love life

After the apocalypse, or nuclear mutual assured destruction, only two things will still be left ... cockroaches, and this thread.

My tax dollars hard at work in the Vern and Pelham. Maybe I can get a bail out from Obama !!!!

one would think that the NFPA would have already recommend that face pieces be able to withstand the high heat of a structural fire. Has any research been done to figure out at what temperature most face pieces are failing at? If they're failing before flashover point, there's a serious issue.

The term "Re-Kindle" should never be used.
How can a fire that is extingushed, "Re-Kindle"? It can not.
When a fire occurs in the same structure hours (or days) later, one of three things has occured:
1) The arrsonest returned to complete the job
2) The fire dept. did a poor job of overhaul and missed something (most common with a smells & bells or a small "room & content" incident)
3) The fire dept. made a determination that after a major fire (often with collapse) that there were no exposure issues and no way to do overhaul (without heavy equipment) and often it was in the best interest of the safety of the members to regroup and wait.
Based on the size of this fire...sounds like #3. so it was not a "Re-Kindle".

From friend in Afghan:
~shooting fireworks and having cookouts with our family is nice..but let's not forget the sacrifices that made & continues to make this holiday possible!

Once again, fantastic post.
For those who were wondering what the Layman's experiment was, here an article done back in February of 2000 by fire engineering:
http://www.firedistrict7.com/tpdffiles/nozleproject/FFebruary2000LITTLE.PDF

I read the article and it is always a good idea to evaluate your tactics and see what works and what doesn't. I am certain thhat FDNY will do scientific studies and end up with valid results.
I remember, however Lloyd Layman's experiments with fog. To some it became like the word of God. Others were skeptical and stayed with smooth bore nozzles. It started a debate within the fire service that never looked like it was going to end. Many were very opinionated regarding fog vs. straight, but very few actually went to their live burn place and tried both under the same conditions to form their opinion. They simply sided with one or the other. A large number of our colleagues sided with fog only because it was "new" and if you use something "new" you are progressive. We don't do that, do we? (PPV on attack, magic penetrating solutions , etc.)
Some of the FDNY article mentioned "Force the door...Control the door...wait to hear the glass break...then open the door slightly and bang the line off the ceiling" The reporter made it look like something new. I learned this method from FDNY's last set of fire tactics experiments. They tried many many tactics on many many fires. They did it over and over, and mostly at night. They kept and used the tactics that worked and discarded the ones that didn't. You say you never heard of this batch of experiments? It was done in about 1968-1974 in the South Bronx and called Burn Baby Burn. Thanks, Bronx firefighters of that era. I learned a lot.
Knock down a basement fire before going in? Now I think it's called Pushing a fire. Once again, thanks Bronx guys.
So the things that the FDNY study are probably nothing new, but I am sure they will tell us what worked and what didn't. I suggest we all just sit down and wait for the results and then try the ones that worked for FDNY.