JM15

Huh? So you are basically saying that Zimmerman is guilty of something, anything? SYG and profiling have next to nothing to do with one another, so trying to say if it's not one it's the other, shows that you're trying to find some reason, any reason that Zimmerman is guilty. To continue to fight this verdict is to take exception to our system of justice. At it's most basic core, the prosecution could not prove that George Zimmerman killed Martin in a manner other than self-defense, beyond a reasonable doubt. The "beyond a reasonable doubt", is the only place this case has wiggle room, and I doubt in the long run that most Americans would think changing that clause would be in our best interests?

I have been reading the responses here am glad to see the feedback on this important issue. I for one would like to see volunteer departments have the ability to appoint municipal training officers providing they have met the criteria under section 426. I think that this would help some departments with training as well as maintain some level of competency. I have written to FASNY in the past for their input and also their support but it fell on deaf ears with the past leadership. Would like to see some thoughts here from all of you on this idea....thanks.

I amazed at this question because it always comes up and the majority of people who ask it think that Travon should not have acted differently.. Nothing is wrong with ask who you do not reconize who are you and what are you doing here. Heck I do it all the time. All Travon had to do was ask Zimmerman why he was following him.If he truly felt threatened he could have called 911 or continue running. Instead he decided to come back and attack Zimmerman.

Was self defense by GZ needed? -If my face was being bashed into the ground and I thought I would die then yes.
Every American has the right to defend their lives, but provoking a confrontation this was not going to end well. -So what if he did "provoke" it he was still attacked.
I believe in the right to bear arms, but only buy people that need it, and have a extensive back ground check. - How do you define people that need it? Is being able to defend your life or your families a need?
I'm sorry to say but this topic is going to become racist and not about the Dispatcher/Zimmerman situation. - Why does it have to become racist? Facts can be discussed without the issue of race by some.
I own a gun for work and I'm always thinking about " what if I have to pull it out, and against who, and if I do and fire it how will I feel knowing that what I did was justified in the legal system or by God. - There is a saying that I would rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6... Seemed to work out for Zimmerman

Despite what the media, Al Sharpton and Eric Holder keep saying, Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law had nothing to do with this case, it wasn't even invoked. Zimmerman's attorneys argued was simple self-defense, a right that every American in the entire country has.

I agree, but its because 1) they assume everyone is trained, 2) they have been told we have 100's of trained firefighters and/or 3) I'm never going to call the FD so it does not matter.
And the public generally does not care if a FF gets hurt (unless they know the ff) as long as it does not cost them more $$$
OSHA is another issue, they have been showing up in a number of depts in Westchester and issuing fines for failing to meet standards. They can show up because of an incident, because of a complaint (and how many depts have 1 ormore unhappy members/exmembers?) or a random inspection.
Yes you are correct, most depts act that way. And you are right about someone having to die, but it has to bein that dept. because many firefighters have died over the years and depts have not learned from the extensive reports on these LODDs.

Since NYS Law is clear that you must have Hazardous Materials First Responder Operations BEFORE you can respond to ANY Calls (beyond being a spectator), why do we need FF Recruit II?
29CFR 1910.120 (q) (6):
Training. Training shall be based on the duties and function to be performed by each responder of an emergency response organization. The skill and knowledge levels required for all new responders, those hired after the effective date of this standard, shall be conveyed to them through training before they are permitted to take part in actual emergency operations on an incident. Employees who participate, or are expected to participate, in emergency response, shall be given training in accordance with the following paragraphs:
The effective date is March 7, 1996

Great idea--aint going to happen as long as there are organizations that are still in the dark ages as far as firefighting is concerned.
Lowering standards or worse not having any borders on criminal intent. Having taught some firefighter one classes in the last few years I can tell you one thing--- class starts out with 20-25 in the class. Last session maybe 16-17. Very few are willing to take a National firefighters one test, because departments do not require taking one.
communities do not send in untrained police--they send them for 16 weeks of training. Yet theses communities use their AHJ to say the fire department is doing the best it can with what it has-- not reality. minimum of Firefighter one-- SET A STANDARD work toward the STANDARD. Put money in the budgets for training not one million dollar pieces of fire apparatus. Those that have the training should DEMAND more form their departments .
Standards should be set for becoming firefighters/ fire officers/fire chiefs -- plane and simple. While I am at it STANDARDS should be set for any one driving fire department vehicles.

How many departments are just not doing any thing? OSHA/ Physicals/Mask fit testing (cant tell you how many are send to FF1 with out a mask fit or physical but do have the sheet signed by the chief) Bail out systems/ haz mat requirements/ BBP standards. Turnout standards being ignored.
sorry for the rant but this is a great topic and can get a lot of interest-- just believes it falls on deaf ears sometimes.

The 1st Amendment is what it is and I support it 100%.
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances
As we can see it guarantees freedom of speech and assembly ...even offensive, disrespectful and down right idiotic speech by a gathering of libelous lunatics. But far better to let these A-holes gather and spew their nonsense, blocked in the streets by the multitude exercising their freedom of assembly, than to open the door to government censorship and the freedoms we would lose (and one could argue the present Administration is bent on taking)

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/westboro-baptist-church-picket-firefighters-memorial-article-1.1391708
I hope that there is a massive turnout of decent Americans both to show respect to the deceased and their families as well as to disrupt, block and drown out the lowlifes who represent the Westboro Baptist Church.

I like the discussion here. But I have yet to really hear from any department (other than one) that is really interested in putting all of our heads together to work towards the same thing.
Firefighter safety, survival and rescue training is near and dear to me. I firmly believe the additional 24 hours of FAST training should be tacked on to the Firefighter I & Survival classes the WCFTC puts out. I also can't comprehend why survival training and rescue of our own is not minimum training for all of us. To make it a separate program and not make it required training STATEWIDE irritates the living hell out of me.
What further irks me is that guys walk out of the training center, carrying their Firefighter I certificates (most not take Survival, thanks WCDES) and never again take a course to better themselves in the interest of all those that they will be working with.
Survival and Firefighter Rescue Training needs to be a requirement - period, end of story.
/rant

There's another thread that is running at the same time as this one. It's about booster lines. If you are leaning on your pike poles, why not pick up a booster line and wet down debris? After all you are both useless.
Of course, your IC will have to get another RIT only because OSHA requires it, and at no time can he have people in an ILDH without a RIT outside.
Also, do the guys that go inside (after all those guys are what this FAST stuff is all about) know that there is nobody there to help them if they get in trouble?
Sample radio transmission:
Mayday, mayday...I fell through the floor. I think I'm in the basement.
10-4 I'll see if there is anyone around who can give you a hand
Mayday, Mayday...Come get me. I can't get out from under the rubble
IC to Mayday...Can you hang on another 20 minutes? I've got a real good team coming, much better than the guys on-scene
If this little scenario looks like anything that could conceivably happen in your department, don't you think you would have to be dumb to go inside?

Here's a graphic on the Sleepy Hollow Engine they donated to Broad Channel FD:

I cant seem to copy and paste it but a new email went out with updated information for Emergency Services

Hi! I am actually the owner of the old 34th st firehouse in Bayonne. I came across this board while i was doing some research on my building. The firehouse was sold by the city at a public auction and a local guy had bought it and told everyone he was going to restore it and got everyone all excited, he then immediately turned around and put it up for sale and thats when I came across it and purchased it about 2 years ago
From the moment I stepped inside I thought it was so cool, nobody had touched it yet, and it was still in the condition it had been when they shut it down back in 2008 and locked it up and moved out. So it still had/has all of the original elements inside. I was really lucky that nobody had started doing any renovations on it and ruining it. Theres paint peeling off the walls, plaster coming down, urinals in the bathrooms, stall showers, 26 original chestnut lockers still with a lot of the old fireman's stuff hanging inside them like tatoo parlor cards they went to, and old p**** mags and old school original subway tiles in the kitchen and baths. The original tin ceilings are still intact, all of the old garment and hose racks and features of the place. Theres also a whole slew of hand painted murals on a lot of the walls with the engine company and their old mascot which was a bulldog with a fire helmet on. Theres a 7 ft mural of this staring you in the face in the back room that will ultimately be the master bedroom. Theres also a list of about 300 names of all of the officers and chiefs who have retired over the years on the bulkhead above the kitchen cabinets. I plan on keeping all of it as original as I can. I respect the history of the place and what it stood for for the city and I dont mind the roughness around the edges of the place....it adds character and I dont want to erase it.
I do plan at some point to have the mural in the kitchen with all the names of the retired duplicated on a big plate of brass and mount it outside on the garage door along the bottom like a giant brass kick plate so that people around town can appreciate those who have served here. That may take a while though since a) it will be pretty expensive to have made, and I have a list of about 800 other things I plan to address with the place as well.
The place is pretty bitchin though, its about 5000 sq ft and has plenty of room, I wash my car inside my house while its parked next to my living room haha. It is a b**** to heat and cool, but its super solid and has stood for the past 130 years and I plan to do my best to preserve it and have it stand for another 130 more.
A number of the old firemen who worked here that I have met at first thought I was some douchebag condo developer who was going to tear the place down or make it into apartments, I told them I planned on keeping it as the original firehouse and they were welcome to come by anytime they liked, and they seemed to appreciate that.
I have plans for the place that center around keeping it as original as possible, I like the quirks and imperfections of the building, it tells its story. I cant tell you how much wood floors and trim i have to strip of paint, adhesive, linoleum etc. hiding under all that is gorgeous chestnut and oak and old heart pine. thats going to be a b****, but itll be worth it.
But rest assured, I plan to keep the place intact as the spirit of the place alive. No hokey HGTV style renovations with modern finishes and sheetrock...If I had wanted that I could have bought a condo, I really admire the old buildings and craftsmanship that went into them. So if it matters to any of you, old E5 in bayonne is in good hands. Itll prob take me 10 years to finish the place, but Im in no rush hahaha.
What I would like to ask, in case anyone knows or could help, is, I am trying to find 2 old brass firepoles for the building. Originally there was one in the front, and one in the back. Both had been removed and they were given back to the guy who bought the property from the city. The bayonne fire museum had given him two brass poles to put back in when they found out he had bought the place, in good faith. They were here and promised to me when i was buying the building. Well a day or two before I closed on the place, he took both poles and probably scrapped them for the brass, who knows....I thought it was a shitty thing to do, and the fire museum agreed. Point is I never got any poles, but I have the two openings, just nothing to slide down. EVERY SINGLE person I meet, the first question they ask is always "Do you have a pole?"
Id love to put the two poles back in so if any of you happens to know of any old poles not in use, or a place that makes them, or a station thats being decommissioned etc, please let me know! It would be sweet if I could get some brass poles back in here. I have tried calling places, go go dance suppliers, railing companies etc. they have brass poles, but when I tell them i need 23 ft long they are like ohhhhhh, we dont have that long. So the poles that were in here were 2.5 inch OD x @23 ft long. Just figured it couldnt hurt to put it out there in case any of you happens to know of some old firepoles laying around.
Thanks!

I emailed them earlier...
BRAVO CONTACT INFORMATION:
You are encouraged to share your disgust, opinion and thoughts with any of the following individuals:
Andy Cohen-Exec VP Programming: Andy.Cohen@nbcuni.com
Julia Nietsch-Manager-"Princesses: Long Island" julia.nietsch@nbcuni.com Call Julia At 212-664-7459
Dan Realson. Director, Digital Media Sales, East Coast Dan.Realson@nbcuni.com Call Dan At 212-664-6012*Amanda Bertoncini: https://www.facebook.com/amanda.bertoncini
Amanda Bertonccini e-mail: DrinkHanky@Gmail.com

OR Contact Them Here: http://www.bravotv.com/contact
FACEBOOK Bravo HERE: https://www.facebook.com/BRAVO

I emailed them earlier...
BRAVO CONTACT INFORMATION:
You are encouraged to share your disgust, opinion and thoughts with any of the following individuals:
Andy Cohen-Exec VP Programming: Andy.Cohen@nbcuni.com
Julia Nietsch-Manager-"Princesses: Long Island" julia.nietsch@nbcuni.com Call Julia At 212-664-7459
Dan Realson. Director, Digital Media Sales, East Coast Dan.Realson@nbcuni.com Call Dan At 212-664-6012*Amanda Bertoncini: https://www.facebook.com/amanda.bertoncini
Amanda Bertonccini e-mail: DrinkHanky@Gmail.com

OR Contact Them Here: http://www.bravotv.com/contact
FACEBOOK Bravo HERE: https://www.facebook.com/BRAVO

I emailed them earlier...
BRAVO CONTACT INFORMATION:
You are encouraged to share your disgust, opinion and thoughts with any of the following individuals:
Andy Cohen-Exec VP Programming: Andy.Cohen@nbcuni.com
Julia Nietsch-Manager-"Princesses: Long Island" julia.nietsch@nbcuni.com Call Julia At 212-664-7459
Dan Realson. Director, Digital Media Sales, East Coast Dan.Realson@nbcuni.com Call Dan At 212-664-6012*Amanda Bertoncini: https://www.facebook.com/amanda.bertoncini
Amanda Bertonccini e-mail: DrinkHanky@Gmail.com

OR Contact Them Here: http://www.bravotv.com/contact
FACEBOOK Bravo HERE: https://www.facebook.com/BRAVO

http://www.firefighterclosecalls.com/news/fullstory/newsid/190282

We were sitting in station 3's kitchen watching the news of the fire in Hackensack before the collapse and we could not believe that they did not know it was a truss building. We saw that is what it was and how advanced the fire was. I remember the descussion that they needed to backout and then it collapsed.
I will never forget.
If you and your dept. did not learn the painful lessons of that day, then shame on you!
If you do not train every member in building construction and how fire effects it (and how it effects fire) you did not learn the leasons of that day.

If you do not do building inspections or at least walk throught and document hazards you did not learn the leasons of that day.

If you do not have seperate fireground and dispatch channels (and use them everytime) you did not learn the leasons of that day.

If you do not do accountability (so you know where your firefighters are operating) you did not learn the leasons of that day.

if you do not operate a command post with enough people to track resources and be able to hear all radio traffic (because the chief is trying to multi task to many jobs) you did not learn the leasons of that day.

If you do not evaluate & reevaluate conflicting condition reports you did not learn the leasons of that day.

If you exceed proper span of control you did not learn the leasons of that day.

If you do not stage tactical reserves you did not learn the leasons of that day.
In Westchester, many of these lessons were never learned or they have been forgotten.
I will never forget.

FAST or RIT is not designed to be a function handled by a specialized unit or group. It is essential that every firefighter be trained in all facets of firefighter rescue. Often incidents that cause firefighters to require emergency rescue, occur early in the incident (well before a county team or specialized team from a mutual aid department can gather a crew and respond). This means that the rescue of the downed or trapped firefighter(s) will have to be initiated by the firefighters who are already on the scene if they are to have a chance at a good outcome.

Next he will be going after the Triborough Doctrin and for people who dont know what it is.
The Triborough Doctrine - The Facts
In the early 1980's the New York State Legislature passed legislation that amended the Taylor Law. The Triborough Amendment was passed as a counter to the fact that NYS public employees do not have the right to strike.
Most public employees don't think about the Triborough Doctrine or remember its importance. There are some in the NYS legislature that would like to eliminate this important legislation.
What does the Triborough Doctrine do?
Prevents an employer from changing terms and conditions of employment until a new contract is negotiated. Requires empoyers to negotiate in good faith, in exchange employees are protected from striking. Employers changing terms and conditions of employment after a contract expires but before a new contract commit an improper practice.
What effect would a repeal of the Triborough Amendment have?
Step increases, increments and longevity pay amounts could be stopped. Employers could reduce work hours and workers' pay and change benefits after a contract expires. Holiday and sick pay could be eliminated. Health coverage could be reduced and employees' share of the premium could be increased. Employers could implement a contract on its employees if no agreement is achieved. The Triborough Amendment puts UPSEU members on a level playing field. An elimination of this important legislation or even a watered down version would have a devastating effect on public employees throughout the state of New York.
For those wondering if their legislators working to stop public employees of this important legislation believe public employees would be granted the right to strike to be law, they don't. They want a one way bargaining process.

I saw on Indeed.com that they were hiring a Fire Chief, so things must be progressing along. I'd expect to see more staff positions filled out as they progress, no?
Link to the job posting, in case anyone is interested:
https://pastaff.panynj.gov/psc/applicant/EMPLOYEE/HRMS/c/HRS_HRAM.HRS_CE.GBL?Page=HRS_CE_JOB_DTL&Action=A&JobOpeningId=17196&SiteId=1&PostingSeq=1&PortalActualURL=https%3a%2f%2fpastaff.panynj.gov%2fpsc%2fapplicant%2fEMPLOYEE%2fHRMS%2fc%2fHRS_HRAM.HRS_CE.GBL%3fPage%3dHRS_CE_JOB_DTL%26Action%3dA%26JobOpeningId%3d12291%26SiteId%3d1%26PostingSeq%3d1&PortalContentURL=https%3a%2f%2fpastaff.panynj.gov%2fpsc%2fapplicant%2fEMPLOYEE%2fHRMS%2fc%2fHRS_HRAM.HRS_CE.GBL&PortalContentProvider=HRMS&PortalCRefLabel=Careers&PortalRegistryName=EMPLOYEE&PortalServletURI=https%3a%2f%2fpastaff.panynj.gov%2fpsp%2fapplicant%2f&PortalURI=https%3a%2f%2fpastaff.panynj.gov%2fpsc%2fapplicant%2f&PortalHostNode=HRMS&NoCrumbs=yes&

Guys hate to burst your bubble but the portable version is deemed an "assault rifle" in NYS and thus illegal... It has a scary looking pistol grip... Can anyone see a bayonnet lug on there?

Twelve years ago today, June 22nd, Lt. Michael Neuner died in the Line of Duty fighting a house fire with the Brewster Fire Department in Putnam County. Mike was a Police Officer in the City of Peekskill, a former member of the Putnam County Sheriffs Department, Armonk and Patterson Fire Departments. My Uncle Mike was one of the funniest, coolest and nicest guys to ever walk this earth.

We remember you today and every day, Satch. You may be gone but you'll never be forgotten!