firemoose827

From the dispatch persepective I have always wondered why we send agencies to other agencie's calls. In my dispatch center a call for a structure fire automatically goes to both the police and fire dispatchers. By the very nature of police being out on patrol and fire waiting in a station for a call, it is almost impossible for the police to not arrive first. I often ask this question, why are we sending the police. Most often I get the nebulous answer that they might be needed. By this theory we should send police, fire and EMS on all calls because they might be needed. Do we send EMS on all buglaries because someone might have cut themselves on a broken window? I have been criticized for not sending the dive team to a car partially in the water with the driver standing looking at it, based on the idea that there might have been a body in the trunk. If that were really a concern then fire should be responding to all abandoned cars for the same reason.
Now there are concerns that the police need to deal with at many fire scenes, but none are critical enough that we need to send them well before we have alerted the fire department. THe old joke about the first car having to get there in time to block the hydrant is only sometimes a joke, but I was on a call once where one of our guys had to get out of the tower ladder and move the unattended police car at the end of the block, because the officer parked it across the street then walked up to look at the fire. I get that there are sometimes traffic concerns and there are even times when fires become crime scenes, but I also think that we are sometimes putting our responders in a no win situation by sending them unequiped for the situation.
The example of the police officer on scene when a civilian brigns out a victim needing CPR is one thing. But the public expects all responders to just do something. They do not understand why that police officer is not running in and trying to rescue all those people. This has lead to a culture where we have trained police officers to disregard their own safety. Why do firefighters wear turnout gear? Because years of science have told us it is the best way not to get burned. Why do police run into burning buildings? Because the fire department was not there yet. To this I will ask why were the police there? As a dispatcher I can wait a few seconds for the fire department to be alerted before sending the police to a call where their main function will be support, especially in a world where most fire responses are under 5 minutes.

A Chief at 20. He must have been a great firefighter. Of course he set a great example for the fellow firemen by drinking then responding to call. That's why kids cant be Officers. They don't have the brains yet to deal with these things. I'm guessing that part were they clear it from his record if he does a stint in a quickie rehab will go over real well with people.

What a complete loser. And what is with all those medals?

RETIRED? lol
Dirtbag!

I'm just glad to not be reading another paid vs. volunteer thread...

Truckies VS. Engine....
I can beat you all on this one, I happen to go both ways...
Your not a fireman until you are an "Iron Man Firefighter" and have to do both jobs at a moments notice.
Stay Safe out there...(truckies)...

NO MORE "GUNS AND HOSES"!

Get rid of that Explorer/Junior stuff on your profile. With that kind of logic, you should be a Chief too!

Sorry chief I clicked like and finished reading and had to unlike because of your request

Now that we're all friends, could someone just click and like this post? It doesn't matter whether you are a cop, FF,EMT,man, woman, old , young, or even a dog, if he can hit the like button.. You see, I now have 899 points and would really like to hit 900 by the end of the day. Also, if you see I hit 900, don't hit the like button because I have achieved my goal and I don't know if EMT-Brave has a procedure for removing points that weren't earned.
Although, if you really liked this stupid post, I guess you would have to hit the like button. But then, how would I know if you really like this post or are just throwing points at me because I only needed one point.
See? It isn't easy being a Chief and making these decisions.

Where's the one about why Trucks are dispatched to the highway with the Engine? We are there to block the road for the Engine, just like traffic cones we are dispensable.
Who closes the door when you leave on another EMS call? Who finishes the meal when you go out for a tummy ache? The truck has been taking care of the engine since horses pooped in firehouses!!!

Sorry Brother but I have to take exception to this post. While covering both Engine and Truck Companies for close to 30yrs I must say "Truckies" truly are nothing but a Fireman's Helper. Your still Loved though! I'm always concerned for my Brother "Ladderman" about the inside stream striking them on the outside when they're taking windows! No seriously you Truckies are awesome you always have fresh cold bottles of water for us Engine Grunts when we come out for a "Blow" and a spare bottle waiting for us. "Tally Ho" Bro!

I was going to venture to add that his records, as a charity, should be public records and available upon request or FOIL. He should have paperwork tracking where he "spent" all the money he received and where it went, which should be to any and all 911 charities for the fallen and their families.
Takes a real scum bag to do this kind of thing to the memory of the fallen. I sincerely hope he isnt a past volunteer firefighter, or if he is I hope he gets wahts coming to him...

And the bias comes out...
Not for nothing, if your profile is accurate you're an Explorer/Junior. You have just as much reason as a cop to be on the fire floor or the floor above "where the real men work."
There was a time on this site where not having an accurate affiliation got you suspended, so we could at least tell if someone had any idea what they were talking about.

I have no "vile" towords any police officer, and if there is a situation that a LEO deserves accolades Im one of the people doing it. You seem to be missing one point yourself...we are concerned for the welfare of ANY first responder that takes it upon themselves to enter an IDLH atmosphere without any information (such as the CO incident). With all of the talk about "chemical assisted suicides", and drug labs with deadly gasses...WHAT would make someone with no airway protection enter in to a situation like that? Regardless of known life hazards?? You could instantly drop dead of exposure if you tried to run into a chemical suicide or drug lab gone bad situation. There was a situation in NY not too long ago where EMS were dispatched to a "Man Down" call. When they arrived the wife was just outside the closed front door saying her husband is on the floor just inside the door and she doesnt know any other way in to get to him...wait, you live there, and dont know any other way in??? That should have stopped EMS there but they forced the door/victim open enough to get to him and 2 medics dropped dead from fumes coming from an illegal drug lab in the living room. The wife knew this and thats why she was not trying to get to her husband.
Point in case- we dont know what is going on inside the house in situations like this; could be just CO, could be a mass chemical suicide, could be a group of druggies fallen victim to their own drug lab, could be ANYTHING.
Police have vests, guns, tazers and other things to handle perps.
Firefighters have gear, air packs, and other tools to fight fires and make rescues.
A TRAINED police officer should be able to look at all the info, the area they are responding to, and have enough sense to say "Ok, I will give FD a few minutes to get here and see where I am at at that point". Just like if I roll up to my bank, look throught he window and see a masked man holding a gun to the tellers head, I will have enough sense to say "Ok, Im going to hold all these people out of the bank and call PD and wait for them to charge in there."
There are situations where it is necessary for us to make split second decisions, like Seth mentioned about the PD arriving on scene of a house fire, kids trapped and FD 15 minutes out...If it were me I would most certainly run in and ATTEMPT to make a rescue any way I could, I am human, all training and uniforms and job titles asside...if I am on scene and other humans are in trouble I will want to help.
No one here hates cops. I believe everyone here was confused over your initial post and what your intent was exactly. I myself saw this post when no one had answered yet and I waited for others to respond to see if they knew what you were asking, or wanted to discuss. Just sayin.

Yah but the "Disabled" line fits him perfectly...mentally disabled...

The "NO LONGER ACTIVE" thing cracks me up. Seems legit, right?

Gotta admit, with this picture, it looks like an assault rifle. Anyone got any good info for the old piercing nozzle then??? LOL

Absolutely Chief, but we both know there's some yard-breathers and politicians out there thinking they can make the job easier (IE: cut training and/or manpower) with something like this.

Guys hate to burst your bubble but the portable version is deemed an "assault rifle" in NYS and thus illegal... It has a scary looking pistol grip... Can anyone see a bayonnet lug on there?

Interesting concept, but I think it would be very dangerious in most municipal depts.
But for ARFF, Shipboard, Industrial it might be an excellent tool

Good idea on paper, until we end up steaming a victim to death because we just "lanced" it from the outside without conducting a search of the building first. Even for small departments with minimum manpower, there's no way around the need for a coordinated fire attack.

Do some research before you jump on the pyrolance bandwagon. The guy in the infomercial sounds a lot like an old film by Lloyd Layman touting the water absorption rate of fog lines. That started the greatest debate ever among fire people. And, I think it was Hahn who had a 700psi fog system for brush fires and places without adequate water supplies.
All these items (High pressure systems, Fog lines, and now Pyrolance) work well in confined spaces because the steam doesn't leave the space and is able to absorb its full amount of btu's.
All these boons to the fire service last a little while and then become museum pieces, never to be used again.
Only a combination of two things has consistently proven itself to be an effective firefighting system over the course of time: Firefighters and Water.
The powers that be are already taking away our firefighters. Watch out boys, the next thing they will want to get rid of are our fire hydrants, selling them for scrap.

I go back to my original question: was this dispatched as a CO emergency or simply a medical emergency? Did the officers know that the car was running in the garage all night when they got there?
What they knew and didn't know at the time is a big factor in reviewing this call. "Keyboard experts"? Just a lot of questions and discussion. What's the problem with that?
Sadly they treated an off-duty, out of district FF as a hero and gave him awards for jumping off the TZ Bridge after witnessing a woman attempt suicide. He was battered and unconscious and needed to be rescued himself but he was still treated like a hero. Personally, I think he should have gotten a 72 hour evaluation at the Behavioral Health Center but that's just me. We very often pat people on the back and say good job even when it wasn't.

We have the same issues in my county, but a lot of it here boils down to pride and ego. I have argued countless times with the EMS in my department because its the same EMT and same Driver that show up to every call, and they both take over 10 minutes to get to the rig and the rig takes 15-20 minutes to roll out the door; this includes Delta and Echo calls. I have brought up automatic mutual aid with 2 of our nearest agencies to be simultaneously toned out with us and the first rig to roll gets the call, and it can be a mix-matched crew if needed, like our driver with our rig but with an EMT from the other agency. The answer I got? "Well, we should be allowed to answer our own calls, its our town and we should get the chance to roll to the call before anyone else does"...................
I have timed our EMS several times for Charlie, Delta and Echo calls and the best time I have seen is a 6 minute time (for the rig to roll after initial tone out time) and that was because they were at station for a meeting. The best time otherwise is 15 minutes...UNACCEPTABLE for any call you respond to. As mentioned and well known already, it only takes 4 minutes for brain death with lack of O2. It may take 4 minutes for the family to call EMS, talk to the dispatcher and get the tones out...then you make them wait another 15-20 minutes for a rig to show up? And then its only staffed with an EMT fresh out of school with minimal experience and no ALS support????? Yes, this system is flawed beyond repair and its being ruined by volunteers with extremely large egos and personal pride. People are putting their pride before the needs of the patient and it needs to stop.
Very well written article and i am from Suffolk County originally, I was raised in Northport NY. Its hard when you are a volunteer that started in a larger, well run agency with a large call volume and more volunteers than you know what to do with ending up in a small town agency, with a handfull of volunteers and a small call volume. You try to offer advice and they instantly get defensive and insulted because "The big city man is trying to push his way in and run our squad thinks he knows it all, trying to boss us around..." yadda yadda yadda.
Pride. Ego. Need to put those things asside and put patients first. I dont care if its an ambulance from 10 miles away that just so happens to be driving through our town returning from hospital; if they are staffed they should be able to call the dispatcher and say they will go to the scene and assess the patient and give an update. If the other squad still has not answered tones then they SHOULD be able to transport; no arguments or petty attitudes, turf wars, "this is my call what are you doing here" BS that most volunteers display. (And to end the pettiness right now, I have been in volunteer EMS for 18 years now as well as career EMS for 11 years, I have been a volunteer EMS lieutenant, Captain and training officer. I have specced out a new rig, and applied for our squad to become ALS certified all at the age of 19) I too am not a volunteer basher, I am a proponent for the patient. I have been a patient and did not want to wait 20 minutes for a rig. My child was a patient and I almost grabbed her and ran in my car instead of wait for the rig to finally decide to arrive. I too used to have that disgusting attitude of "Its our call, dont let XYZ agency take it, lets get a crew and respond even if it takes 20 minutes and 4 tones of our pagers"......That was wrong and I know it now. We need to get the proper care to the patient within minutes. Period.
End of rant...sorry! lol