INIT915

I totally understand what you are saying with regard to the FID. It is an invaluable resource, apparently shared by all the FDs within the county. Funding for this unit should never have been in question. The fact that it has been apparently eliminated is truly wrong.
But I have to say, the boat argument just doesn't fit in with the FID issue. Looking at it from the outside, I read the link posted about the boat. The Port Authority for some reason wants to bolster the Sheriff's boat capability, and they are giving them some money to accomplish that. The other money is forfeiture money, probably from drug asset seizures.
Once the purchase is completed, what has changed? The sheriff still has a boat, just a newer larger one that they will use for patrol. The staffing of the boat is where most of the budgeted money from the sheriffs department will go toward. So I ask again, what has changed besides the size of the boat? Nothing really.
I'm confident in writing this that there are laws about what and where they can use those seized funds from; and more than likely it can't be used to fund the FID.
When all is said and done, the boat purchase has virtually no effect on the budget of the sheriff, or the lack of funding for the FID.
Just a suggestion; but the county should be writing a 2010 AFG grant to try and get funding for the FID restored.

Are you arguing that the Sheriff's having a Marine Unit serves no other function, other then to write tickets? They don't respond to any other emergencies or play any other vital role?

That's the problem. Residents of a city like Newburgh don't think like us. They are less worried about staffing and equipment, and instead are focused on a 69% tax hike with the layoffs, and probably a 100% tax hike without the layoffs. I honestly don't think Newburghians will "screaming" if the City FD has to call in M/A. First, I'm not even sure they'll notice, and second, if they do know, I doubt they'll care.
Newburgh is different in demographics from a lot of locales where the citizens may be more aware of such happenings, and where they are aware, may seek to force change on the part of the city.
The other problem with Newburgh is, this trend of foreclosures and vacancies is sure to only increase every year. The irony behind all this is, the 69% tax increase will probably force more residents and businesses out of the city, forcing more layoffs next year.
Newburgh City government better act fact and better act decisively and come up with a plan, or they'll end up like some cities that never were able to come back from the brink.
Newburgh is even broaching dissolution, which, I can only assume will classify the city as an unincorporated area of the County, forcing the County to come up with a plan.
"Newburgh 2020" is their latest plan, and in all honesty, possibly their last hope. Newburgh 2020

Come on Barry. With all due respect, planning and training are all good and well. But you know, as well as i, that alot of these commercial occupancies may change what they are storing on a daily basis. Even a Career department (such as the one you are affiliated with) with Inspectors/Marshalls may not be able to keep up with whats going on in these places.
Responding to ANY emergency, we must always be on alert and prepared for ANYTHING. However, there are times when things are out of our control.
Happy thanksgiving to you sir and your family, stay safe.

Wow, great shots, thanks for sharing! A lot of fire on arrival, not much to do but protect the exposures. You just have to be very reserved not knowing what is stored in and around a body shop. Almost looks like this could have started on the exterior, no?
Hope nobody was hurt and again, great shots.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone, stay safe!

Well, BNechis referred to a 24 hour schedules, so I was simply providing the calculations of 8 vs. 24 hour tours, which I stand by. Not even necessarily talking about YFD, as much as 24 tours in general. (There are other FD's out there you know. Not to mention PD's and EMS who work alternative schedules.)

You mean to tell me that EMS personnel walked in, found one unconscious subject and another with "stroke-like" symptoms and some kind of bell in their heads didn't go off?! I've been to calls for unknown medicals where we have found a patient, or in some cases multiple patients, ill and realized something is wrong. Why didn't they get out of there sooner? Why not call the FD sooner?
Seems to me that there is a severe lack of training (and/or common sense) on the part of arriving EMS.
I concur with the other gents who said every EMS unit should have an idiot-proof CO detector that goes into every building, that requires no activation and alarms personnel when there is a CO issue.
On an aside, I am told by colleagues who work at OVAC that the FD showed up, walked in without any kind of PPE or SCBA and checked the house for gas. WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE? You have to treat CO incidents and any odors of gas as a real threat.
WAKE UP PEOPLE!

Well, in our agency, all of our cars, (well, over 99% of our more than 3000 cars), are non-cage cars. And it is Division policy that the prisoner sit up front. The reason being, it is a lot easier to watch him/her, in the event he/she tries anything. When they are in the back seat, it's very difficult to watch them, and they have a bit of a tactical advantage from behind.

While I have nothing to do with Yorktown (except driving thru it every now and again), there are a few points to be made.
As mentioned, it would be fairly libelous to call this action a larceny, as, has been pointed out, the declination of the original bond proposal are non-binding on the Commissioners ultimate decision to pursue the project.
And has also been pointed out, there is a remedy for unhappy constituents. Vote out incumbent Commissioners. But, as has also already been pointed out. No one is interested in participating in elections for Commissioners. Voter apathy is frequently a problem, especially in Fire District races.
On on a separate note, many of the items list as being passed by Congress where not "passed", they are merely expiring with sunset provisions. A subtle, but distinct difference.

Date: 10/25/10
Time: 12:00 hours
Location: 852 Bay St x Norwood Ave
Frequency: FDNY Staten Island
Weather Conditions: overcast
Description Of Incident: fire through the roof of a private dwelling extended to exposures.
Reporters/Writer: ryang
Additional Info:
Stapleton, Staten Island, NY, 10/25/10
Address: 852 Bay St @ Norwood Ave
12:01 hours
Phone Box 447 - Report of a top floor fire in a private dwelling
Engs. 153, 152, 155
TL77, L78
Battalion 21

12:02 hours
Receiving report of fire out the top floor with kids running out
E160
Rescue 5
Squad 1
12:02 hours
E155 is delayed due to BISP
CIDS for 852 Bay St:
MD 3 story 40x40 class 4. Address 850-852 Bay St. No second egress. Laundromat and deli on 1st floor. No basement. Access to utility room via rear exposure 4. Gas heating units in attic.
10-75-447 - 12:05 hours
Battalion 21: We see a large column of smoke, we're not yet 10-84 but give me the 10-75.
TL79 (FAST Truck)
Battalion 22
Division 8

7-5-447 - 12:06 hours
BC21: All-Hands on Arrival, top floor fire, we have fire through the roof, give me an extra engine and an extra truck, k!
E161, L83 S/C
E159 w/ Satellite 5
RAC5
12:07 hours
BC21: Box 447, size-up is as follows: we have a 3 story 40x40. Exposures are: 1 is a street, 2 is a similar detached, 3 is undetermined, 4 is a similar detached. We have 2 lines stretched, 1 in operation at this time
2-2-477 - 12:09 hours
BC21: Transmit a 2nd alarm, we have fire in the cockloft!
Engs 156, 163, 242
L80
Battalion 42 (Safety Officer)
Battalion 23 (Resource Unit Leader)
Safety, Rescue Battalions
Tactical Support 2
FieldCom 1, Command Tactical Unit

12:09 hours
Division 8 is having problems starting the rig is unable to respond

12:12 hours
Division 8 is now able to respond
12:20 hours
Fallback Step III has been implemented in the borough of Staten Island
12:25 hours
Division 8: Box 447, we have fire on the 3rd floor, in the attic, and through the roof at 852 and 854 Bay St. We have 4 lines stretched in operation. We have some extension to exposure 2 top floor, fire is Doubtful.
12:32 hours
TL85 S/C
12:39 hours
DC8: Box 447, primary searches in 850Bay St, 852 Bay St, and exposure 2 are negative. Fire has been knocked down. Probably Will Hold.
12:49 hours
DC8: Secondary searches in the attics of 850 Bay St and 852 Bay St are negative
12:53 hours
DC8: Secondary searches in exposure 2 complete and negative. Secondary searches in the fire building on floors 1 and 2 are negative.
Relocations:
Engines 241/153, 276/156, 168/160, 318/161, 228/163
Ladders: 101/77, 114/79, 161/81
Battalions: 40/22

These "Minority LE Groups" are Law Enforcement's version of the Vulcans!

Of course there have been shootings that in retrospect were unwarranted or mistakes. But, I could probably guarantee that in those cases, with literally only a split second to decide, the Officer's involved made the best choice they could.
Think about the many video of traffic stops gone bad that permeate those reality shows. Imagine conducting your 5,000 "routine" traffic stop, and something goes awry. We are not exaggerating when we say you have a second or two to react. There are some that would advocate the officers wait and take more time to make a "better" decision. Unfortunately, that will inevitably lead to more officer fatalities. It's indisputable.
The best part about the LoHud article is the injured passenger conceding that they drove into the officer, yet he goes on to fail to see the what "prompted the shooting."

No one ever agrees with Police shootings, including the Police! You think anyone in L.E. wants to be involved in a shooting, no matter how justified? Months, even years of investigations, civil suits, having your name in the paper. The press and Courts will now have several years, literally, years to second guess what these officers had what, 5 seconds to decide on?

Of course there have been shootings that in retrospect were unwarranted or mistakes. But, I could probably guarantee that in those cases, with literally only a split second to decide, the Officer's involved made the best choice they could.
Think about the many video of traffic stops gone bad that permeate those reality shows. Imagine conducting your 5,000 "routine" traffic stop, and something goes awry. We are not exaggerating when we say you have a second or two to react. There are some that would advocate the officers wait and take more time to make a "better" decision. Unfortunately, that will inevitably lead to more officer fatalities. It's indisputable.
The best part about the LoHud article is the injured passenger conceding that they drove into the officer, yet he goes on to fail to see the what "prompted the shooting."

No one ever agrees with Police shootings, including the Police! You think anyone in L.E. wants to be involved in a shooting, no matter how justified? Months, even years of investigations, civil suits, having your name in the paper. The press and Courts will now have several years, literally, years to second guess what these officers had what, 5 seconds to decide on?

Clearly you fail to understand how EMS in the rural areas often rely on licensed fire responders at all levels to begin care. Having started in a small rural community where the closest mutual aid ambulance was 20 minutes out, I can attest that having members properly equipped to assist patients is not a disservice of any sort. Aside from administering oxygen, bleeding control, assisting with EPI-pens, spinal immobilization, CPR and even defibrillation are often performed by first responders with success. Not to mention being able to assess the situation and ammend the response appropriately.

We are suppose to provide assistance regardless of status, race, color, religion, sex or economic standing but only if you are on my side of the line.
In Westchester almost nobody ever crosses that line. If we did we would be dispatched by closest available unit, not dept. x & dept y. This is why we have communities that have only had ALS for a few years while others have had it for decades. This is why some communities have local police depts and other have NYS.
When White Plains had ALS but it was before Harrison even had BLS (just a stretcher car) and a cardiac arrest call came in in Harrison, you got what you paid for. Did you deserve ALS...yes..did you pay for it...no, did you get it....no.

Most oaths I've heard state I promise to "serve and protect the citizens of the City of Happyville".
Why should the taxpayers of the City of Happyville pay to support a service to a community that is not part of there city and refuses to help pay for it?
If those people in the unincorporated area want fire protection they can:
1)pay the city for it
2)have the county provided it (and tax them for it)
3)set up a rural fire protection district (and pay tax to support it)
4)Ask the city to expand and incorporate them into the city services (and be taxed for it).
or
5) roll the dice.

It appears from the story that the homeowner declined to opt-in to the program. He knew the risks. He gambled and lost. Not really sure what the problem is here. While it's sad, it was foreseeable. I'm sure a lot of people would love to get fire protection from a City FD for $75.
When this topic had been discussed in the past, it seemed obvious to me that folks living in these "zones" know aboyt the program and their obligations to join.
I have to agree with the mayor in the article, who would ever pay for car insurance if they could just start paying after a crash, yet reap the benefits at the cost of those who properly pre-planned.

Out of curiousity - why were the police BOLO'ing for it...same thing for bears...why tie up emergency resources for animals that were here long before us??
Yes - it is different to see a moose or bear - they are NOT common here (bears ARE common in Dutchess BTW...they have established a very healthy population)
Just let them be...and enjoy their presence..

1. If this "hypothetical" incident is actually one that occurred the other night in Mahopac, they did in fact make a grab (or whatever people call it these days), so in the eyes of OSHA they would be "exempt" from having to keep the "Two out."
2. If anyone thinks having just "Two Out" is sufficient, you're out of your friggin mind. We have done drills as simple as dragging a guy across the engine room floor with no smoke, no fire, no obstructions - and it can tire you out fast.
3. Any Chief - not an IC - but a Chief who knows that their primary Mutual Aid (FAST, Truck, whatever) consistently struggles, then maybe it's time to use someone else. I'm not poking jabs at anyone in this scenario, but wake up guys. I am like almost every Chief, Officer and Firefighter on here that is very, very proud of my department. But if we can't produce what is asked of us, I'd rather say we can't do it then do it half-assed.
4. The FF I program has to include Survival & FAST. Stop saying it's a burden on people. Any firefighter that is naive enough to say they're interior but won't learn how to help one of your own should be pushed to the exterior list. If a guy isn't going to help one of his own or thinks it can't happen, they're not a team player and can find another team to play for.
5. Calling two FASTs might be the answer if that's what it takes to give an IC the people on scene he feels is needed. But until that request is made, the one team that is requested needs to man up after a few minutes and say they can't cover their call. We had to do it once, and I anticipate it will happen again at some point, but we have our own policy in place that says if we have less manpower than we need, we will advise the IC and see if he wants us, someone else or a combination of both. We're not too proud to say we can't cover a request. On the opposite side of the coin, our primary FAST is fantastic, they always provide enough manpower in a timely manner. Our backup FASTs have also been good to us over the years (thanks!).
6. Bnechis - the remark that volunteers pick and choose calls is not a secret. But the same can be said for paid personnel in various departments as well. I'm not going to turn this into a debate, but I know of plenty examples but this is neither the place nor the time for it. It's human nature to hear a call at 3AM when it's pouring out and say "this sucks," but that call has to be answered whether we like it or not.

Date: 10/1/10
Time: 23:59 hours
Location: 57 ave x 49 st
Frequency: FDNY Queens
Weather Conditions: overcast
Description Of Incident: fire in a concrete plant
Reporters/Writer: ryang
Additional Info:
Maspeth, Queens, NY, 10/1/10
Address: 57-02 49 st @ 57 Ave
23:59 hours
Phone Box 7027 - Report of fire in a warehouse
Engs. 259, 291, 206
L128, L140
Battalion 45
Squad 288 available assigned
10-75-7027 - 00:06 hours
E325
TL163 (FAST Truck)
Battalion 28
Division 14
Rescue 4

CIDS for 46-05 56 Rd:
UPS Warehouse 2 story 1134x588 class 3. Rubber membrane roof over concrete. Fully sprinklered. Wall hydrants. Offices on 2nd floor. 24 hours guard.
7-5-7027 - 00:10 hours
Battalion 45: All-Hands, special call a tower ladder and HazMat, we have multiple cylinders burning, we have outside structures burning, we have no extension to the actual building.
TL124, HazMat 1, HazMat Battalion, Squad 270 (HazTec) S/C
RAC4
00:12 hours
BC45: Have the 4th due engine hook up to the hydrant at 48 st and 56 RD, have them put their stang into operation, they will supply the tower ladder when it arrives.
00:13 hours
BC45: 288's going to be used as an engine company, please assign another Squad!
Squad 270 will be going in as a Squad
Squad 252 (HazTec) S/C
2-2-7027 - 00:15 hours
Engs. 292, 287, 271, 237
E324 w/ Satellite 4
L136
Battalion 46 (Resource Unit Leader)
Battalion 37 (Safety Officer)
Safety, Rescue Battalions
Tactical Support 1
FieldCom 1
Car 10 (DAC Kevin Butler, Bronx Borough Commander)
00:17 hours
Assign another Tower Ladder, we're putting 163 to work, that Tower Ladder will be the FAST truck.
TL146 (FAST Truck) S/C
00:20 hours - Duration 21 minutes
BC45: 2nd Alarm Box 7025, We have 2 lines stretched and operating, 1 stang in operation, 2 tower ladders being set up and a 3rd line being stretched. It appears to be a combination of about 3 structures, an automobile, a bunch of fuel tanks, and a bunch of other equipment.
00:22 hours
BC45: These structures are combined, they're standing next to each other in between these tanks. At this time the main building does not appear to be involved, it's about 50 feet back of the fire but it's creeping up on it.
00:25 hours
BC45: Command Post will be located by TL163, just inside the yard.
10-86-7027 - 00:27 hours
BC45: Transmit a 10-86 for a foam operation, and see if you can contact someone from the facility, get someone down here.
E260 w/ Foam 260, E294 w/ Foam 294
E228 w/ Purple-K 228, E229 w/ Purple-K 229
E207 w/ Satellite 6
E238 w/ Foam Tender Unit
Battalions 4, 14 (Foam Coordinator)
00:31 hours
Division 14 requests the administrative company for the address. Administrative company is E259.
00:36 hours
The staging area is 56rd and 50 st
00:44 hours
BC45: Send me the full 2nd Alarm rundown to my MDT. Also the Command Post has been move to 57 Ave and 48 st.
3-3-7027 - 00:47 hours
FieldCom to Queens, URGENT! 3rd Alarm!
Engs. 277, 218, 216, 221
T106
Battalion 31
Battalion 35 (Staging Manager)
Battalion 33 (Air-Recon Chief)
Mask Service Unit
01:05 hours
LIRR reports they will attempt to shut down train traffic.
01:10 hours - Duration 1 hour 11 minutes
FieldCom: At your 3rd Alarm Box 7027, 56 Rd and 48 st, we have a corrected address: 57-02 49 st. Car 10 reports: We have 2 satellites in operation, we have 2 tower ladders in operation. We've had 2 minor explosions at the scene. They are setting up a foam operation. Handlines have been shut down right now, fire is Doubtful.
01:14 hours
As of 01:11 hours. LIRR confirms train traffic has been blocked.
01:17 hours
Air-Recon is airborned with a 5 minute ETA.
01:19 hours
FC: By orders of Car 10, special call a 3rd Satellite to the Box. Have him respond to the 49 st and 57 ave side of the incident, have him try to find a water source at that site, and have 2 Battalion Chiefs special called to the Command Post.
E9 w/ Satellite 1, Battalions 50 acting 46, 52 S/C
01:20 hours
Car 14C (Fire Marshal) is responding
01:33 hours - Duration 1 hour 34 minutes
FC: Progress Report for your 3rd Alarm Box 7027, at the address 57-02 49 st, Car 10 reports: making good progress with handlines using foam. A foam operation is still being set up using the Satellites. the Foam Tender. and the tower ladders. Still Doubtful.
02:02 hours - Duration 2 hours 2 minutes
FC: Progress Report for your 3rd Alarm Box 7027, at the address 57-02 49 st, fire in a cement plant. Car 10, Chief Butler reports: all visible fire has been knocked down. Extinguishing residual pockets of fire. We have 1 tower ladder set up standing by for foam operation. 1 tower ladder and 1 handline in operation at this time. Fire is Probably Will Hold Also be advised the 3rd alarm companies that were at staging are being released. They will go 10-8 when they're in their respective response areas.
02:08 hours
E324 requests the Shops to respond to 49 st and 56 Rd for a mechanical issue with Satellite 4.
02:12 hours
FC: Have the Buildings Dept respond to the 3rd Alarm, 1 silo was involved in the fire and they want to check the stability.
02:32 hours
Buildings Dept. reports a 1 hour ETA.
02:35 hours - Duration 2 hours 36 minutes
FC: Final Progress Report for your 3rd Alarm Box 7027, at the address 57-02 49 st, Car 10 reports the fire is now Under Control.

Maybe you should have read my whole post?

I don't disagree that LE can catch a bad rap from the media. But pulling the old "liberal media" line just cause we don't like a story diminishes the effect when a story truly is slanted. In this case, whether we like it or not, cheating is wrong, and the mere fact that the media is reporting what the DOJ has already found to be a fact doesn't do anyone any justice by blaming them.
We risk sounding like some of the pathetic politicians who get in the habit of blaming the press for merely reporting unflattering stories.

I don't disagree that LE can catch a bad rap from the media. But pulling the old "liberal media" line just cause we don't like a story diminishes the effect when a story truly is slanted. In this case, whether we like it or not, cheating is wrong, and the mere fact that the media is reporting what the DOJ has already found to be a fact doesn't do anyone any justice by blaming them.
We risk sounding like some of the pathetic politicians who get in the habit of blaming the press for merely reporting unflattering stories.