FirNaTine

I saw this 13yrs ago at Ground Zero. Guys taking pics of each other I/f/o/ utter devastation. Are you friggin kidding me? Yeah that's it, let's take one of the worst days in American History and turn it into a photo op! Morons!

As mentioned above, where's the Greenburgh union been? Do they support their leader saying this? Or are they too afraid of their leaders to say anything?

Surprising in such a multi-racial district.

Is he apart of the Union or is there an Officer's Union? Maybe he's a pos that nobody wants to defend and they want to see him go . You never know!

Did they ever fix the floor at the Oak St Station I believe it's Station 4? shouldn't they be worrying about that? I believe 2 Engines use to roll out of there and that's why they are down to 4 now instead of 5. Just another reason for always requesting m/a. Whose running that f*** shop over there?

We got relocated there a while back. Couldn't figure out how to open the doors.....we were later informed they were broken. So we had to leave the truck running to keep the pump from freezing-and in that area someone with it. We managed to get into the firehouse after a DPW guy showed up to go to the bathroom, but he didn't know anything about the doors and said the building maintenance guy was on vacation. We were also surprised to see most guys sleep in makeshift areas on the first floor...must like to sleep with the rats and other vermin we saw running across the floor.

When one of the engines got back, they opened the door manually. We felt pretty stupid, but they say that's pretty much the routine.

LMAO!!! But all is good, just ask Uncle Ernie!

Gotta be kidding me! Friggin disgrace to the Uniform! ST Paddys Day was last month!

a heavy ems calls ?

Those guys are busier then some parts of Da Bronx!

I think the second guy climbing up the ladder was trying to get everybody killed. The trapped worker saved both their lives. If it weren't for him they might of never moved the ladder. It looks like they would of been in the collapse that occurred soon after.

Too many guys seem to want to have a hand in on a "Grab" for some reason, as if they're even doing anything productive and assisting. Let me get in on the action! Actually if you watch the video the worker once on the floor below probably could have gone inside and walked down the stairs. How great would that have been!

It's a good thing the worker had the strength to do what he did cause the turntable operator obviously couldn't extend the Ladder if possible any further with the second guy climbing up the aerial behind the 1st Rescuer. What was he thinking and what was he going to do if he got further up? You could see the 1st Rescuer telling him to get back down. And what is the tip load?

Interesting concept: A) Train to deal with the problem which will negate the aftermath, Or B. Ignore the problem and train for the aftermath. It's not always this cut and dry but if I were given a choice I would choose "A". All to often I see people go right to "B" It would also help to identify the problem before there is even a chance of a aftermath. Training for a worst case scenario has its place in the fire service. Preventing a worst case scenario from happening has a bigger place though.

It's like the old "Cart before the Horse" mentality! I guess this would be along the same lines as telling people how to prevent fires within their home after their house burned to the grown. Let's try an concentrate more on preventing a calamity before it happens.

I agree with the basic logic you're pointing out, that if you put the fire out everything else goes away, but the point I'm trying to make is that being able to rescue one of your own should be considered one of the basics. Obviously not everyone is going to be a RIT "expert" but its nonetheless a critical set of skills to be comfortable with.

100% correct but also we should try and remember as much as possible what we've been taught on how to not get ourselves or put others in a predicament that would require a FAST Team to be deployed.

Before we worry about every FF being experienced and well skilled in RIT/FAST SOPs(which is truly important also) how about we make sure everyone can "Pump and Ventilate" properly, accurately and as quickly as possible, reducing the chances of having to put a RIT/FAST Team to work. After all these are the Basics right? Put the friggin fire out folks as quickly as possible and most your troubles will go away. Let's also stop assigning positions on Apparatus based on "Seniority" and more on "Ability!" I can guarantee you to if you look at most LODs, they are attributed to Complacency,Ignoring Dept. SOPs or maybe following piss poor SOPs that were implemented and were doomed to fail from the beginning and/or plain out Incompetence on an individual's ability to perform. In a nut shell I guess what Im trying to say is Im sure many LODs are cause by "Human Error" but nobody wants to admit it! There I said it! Let's always stop trying to point fingers and blame everybody but ourselves and our fellow so called 'Brother" FFs. Many guys die in our Profession because of stupid mistakes made on the fire ground, not because there were only 2 or 4 guys on a RIT/FAST Team instead of 10. Let's get out of the "Denial Phase" please and constantly blaming Management and the Administration! We at many times are our own worst enemy but don't want to admit it!

220k Salary for a department of ~60 members? Wow, I must be doing something wrong.

Ah c'mon Fairview has a very heavy Fire Load. It's money well spent!

I'm not saying abuse of the M/A system should be allowed, but I'll bet few places nationwide had the forethought to write in enforcement actions or ways to sanction those FD's that failed to live up to their end of the bargain. I know we had the same issue on EMS coverage and now charge for it. It would seem plainly obvious that to be in a "mutual aid agreement" you have to reciprocate. Maybe the other FD's should request the abusive FD more routinely and then be denied assistance routinely, showing the obvious one sided nature of the issue?

In the end, the taxpayers far and wide will only see a refusal to assist as a bad thing for any FD who won't answer a call for help. We all know what stripping another towns resources could do, but we answer try and stop the loss that is happening currently, not the one that might happen in the future. Taxpayers at large will sympathize with the financial issue every day of the week as they understand that compared to what it takes to safely mitigate a fire.

Don't agree necessarily with your assumption of what taxpayers may think and their possible sympathy. I for one would not care if my FD refused m/a to a Dept. who constantly abuses it. Im paying high taxes for their Services(Salaries) and want them there if I, my neighbor, friend, family member needs them, not in a neighboring town cause their City Officials don't want to provide adequate F/P. That's not my or any of my fellow taxpayers problem. Do you feel it's right for a Dept. who abuses the M/A Policy and is working shorthanded, to also send Apparatus out of town to reciprocate, leaving it's taxpayers and fellow Brother FFs even in more harms way, increasing the risks? Ive seen Depts. on more then one ocassion call their Apps. back from m/a to their own town because now they had an Incident and were now shorthanded. Some of these times they were dispatched right to the scene of a Job while enroute back to their Community. Everybody has their own opinions on this touchy Subject, so I guess will agree to disagree and that's ok.

The irony is, the same departments that always go to the same jobs together, and couldn't function without each other, can't merge with each other and share operation and reduce costs. Mount Vernon isn't the only department that uses mutual aid continuously as a crutch. And maybe creating a joint fire district will take the power away from the Mount Vernon politicians, which may be the only way to save them and the members of MVFD.

And how can MVFD have enough manpower to have a FAST team, especially now that they are down 2 firefighters who are facing felony charges yet still holding spots in the department? But they are probably good at forcible entry and dragging victims. It's funny because it's true.

(I apologize to the MVFD members I offended)

LMAO!!!

Wouldn't refusing to use M/A knowing the City would not call in or properly staff apparatus in the same period of time as a strike jeopardize the people and property a department was sworn to protect? Not to mention putting the lives of the on duty personnel at greater risk?

Didn't members of these Depts.responding on M/A take an oath to protect and serve those taxpayers who pay their Salaries and are not only putting their lives in danger but their Brother FFs. It's not a neighboring Depts. responsibility to worry about F/P for another Community because of neglect on the abusive Municipalities City Officials and Administration. Id love to see how everyone felt if a civilian was seriously injured or killed because the Apparatus that was suppose to be there to protect them was once again, for the umpteenth time, in another Community providing F/P because the Powers To Be in this neighboring town refuse to provide adequate F/P on a continuous basis. JMO.

That's just scratching the surface of the problems. I would say it's an equal opportunity screwover. Here's just another snippet of another issue with this hiring process:

"Gone in 60 Seconds"

Seth did they mention the racial breakdown of these candidates disqualified?

So what should the next move be to change the system?

Internal Investigations by the Feds and take'em All out in cuffs?

I love how people try and justify that there's some wrong doing when new recruits are related to present FD members. After all wasn't and isn't our Profession one of Tradition? Maybe LAFD should start recruiting in South Central to boost the number of "Crypts" and "Bloods" on their Job! Now the poison is hitting the West Coast! Gotta Love this Social Experimenting!

Our Job has become nothing more then a handout! Thank You, you f****** Liberal a*******! Keep voting them in People!

Yes, we've heard it, but based on the 2nd quote, do you think they will hire if mutual aid no longer comes to help?

Ya know what Bnechis they might but I guess we're never going to know so long as things stay status qou and nothing else is implemented.

It's my understanding that a certain department does have the money. In fact its budgeted, just not spent. Money is then taken from and spent in other areas. Such as non civil service jobs created for political pay back. Mutual aid to a point enables this to happen. Why spend money on the nesessities if it will be given to you in the long run.

100% correct. They cry they don't have the Finances but then create Jobs for their Cronies that for the most part are "No Show" positions anyway and were never in the Budget. I love though ltrob how guys from other FDs seem to know a lot about another Municipalites Finances/Budgets and what they can and can't afford!

1) yes we call back, but we also get 2E, 2L mutual aid regardless and since we do not own that many spares we keep them until units free up at the scene.

2) 35 years ago and that worked in Yonkers, which is a very different community politically than any other in Westchester. A few years ago a few of our members held an unofficial sick-out. The union was against it and they were warned not to do it. It took the city less than 1 shift to get an injunction against the union and for every shift that members missed, every member (even those not scheduled to work or on vacation) were docked 2 days pay under the Taylor law. So I lost 2 days pay for the 1 day sickout. They also had other penilties like the city would no longer deduct union fees from our pay. I think you will find any dept today that does that will jive up almost as fast as it starts. Want to break your union, hold a job action.

Yes you are correct and like I said I would never condone it or a sickout. Many Communities however, like Yonkers are very different politically. What one Community will put up with another won't. I can tell you though for a fact Ive heard City/Town Officials say out of their own mouths "Why hire more men when we have a M/A Policy. They're only a phone call away." "Besides, how many fires a year do we have anyway." With that rationale we'll never win.

He should be hired immediately! s*** Ive seen 50 yr old guys run frigging circles around younger guys who want to do nothing but sit and play with their laptops all friggin day and then complain when they have to mop the floor! Some of them are lucky if they can even throw a 24' up by themselves! Age to me doesn't mean s*** anymore on our Job! If he's in good enough shape to do the Job and is willing to, which he seems to be by Volunteering to do it then give it to him! WTF!

You are partially correct, Communities will never provide adequate staffing because of cost, but it has nothing to do with mutual aid.

Since almost every dept. is not bringing enough manpower to incidents to meet the standards( and in some cases violating state law) even when they are abusing mutual aid your argument holds no water. You claim they will not increase staffing because of mutual aid, but they do not even request enough mutual aid to get to standards. Why are firefighters not complaining about this?

Ok so following your logic, we stop sending mutual aid to community X, because the members don't want it. The municipality still will not increase the staffing (or in VFD communities their are no additional volunteers). This means the members will work harder, with higher personal risk and still no help. Plus the community will be at greater risk at both the incident and the uncovered areas. So how will this fix anything?

My dept. had 199 firefighters 40 years ago, then 187, 186, 180, 170, 168, 166, 160, 154..........And in the last 25 years we had NO increase in mutual aid. But we went from 187 to 154 (with a threat of lower). During that time all the firefighters kept claiming it would get better if we just fought for it.

Everyone of the depts. around us have lost ff's or have been stagnant as call volume increases.

You keep arguing for no mutual aid, but then you also admit that the community will not spend any more $$$$. So failing to help each other only hurts us.

That's your opinion Bnechis and your absolutely entitled to it but there are many out there that agree with me too. You are also a member of a Dept whose members come running back I believe for every Job. You are a call back FD while others are not so ya what the hell request m/a and then get them released asap when we have enough staffing to man our spares. Why wouldn't City Officials love that option also? Hell I would if I was a Mayor and knew I could either rely on m/a to supplement my FD or even have my own ffs come running back. Give them a little ot and everyone will be happy and they'll shut up so long as you pad their pockets! To each is own. Now why I would never condone a Dept going on strike look what YFD did I believe in 1979 or 1980 and look where they are now. They took a drastic measure jeopardizing the lives of millions, while threatening those Depts that responded M/A and it paid off for them down the road. They are now one of the most advanced,progressive and admired Depts for what they have and become and you can see this by how much everyone jumps on their NOB!! Keep running back for the cheese and accommodating your City Officials. Im sure they're tickled pink and loving it!

Well, if you're in Mount Vernon, you're s*** out of luck.

Don't understand?