16fire5

Actually the last line is what really gets me. They are supposed to be fine they are not supposed to take a beating. They are supposed to call for enough help to quell the situation. I'm really wondering what tactics you would advise to diffuse the situation? It's the same thing we hear about DJ Henry or an incident in Yonkers. A proper use of force and police procedure is not a pretty thing to watch but that dosen't make it wrong and it usually results after the offending party or parties fail to comply with numerous lawful orders. I for one am glad the rangers and all those there doing their job are fine.

Actually the last line is what really gets me. They are supposed to be fine they are not supposed to take a beating. They are supposed to call for enough help to quell the situation. I'm really wondering what tactics you would advise to diffuse the situation? It's the same thing we hear about DJ Henry or an incident in Yonkers. A proper use of force and police procedure is not a pretty thing to watch but that dosen't make it wrong and it usually results after the offending party or parties fail to comply with numerous lawful orders. I for one am glad the rangers and all those there doing their job are fine.

Actually the last line is what really gets me. They are supposed to be fine they are not supposed to take a beating. They are supposed to call for enough help to quell the situation. I'm really wondering what tactics you would advise to diffuse the situation? It's the same thing we hear about DJ Henry or an incident in Yonkers. A proper use of force and police procedure is not a pretty thing to watch but that dosen't make it wrong and it usually results after the offending party or parties fail to comply with numerous lawful orders. I for one am glad the rangers and all those there doing their job are fine.

Boy what moxie. Then why did the white water rafters go into the river ? They put the rescuers at risk. I see no post by the FD that they were making rescues along the Saw Mill.
That's no bull. In upstate NY the county declared a ban on boating during the storm. Maybe Westchester should take a cue from Broome county. Some people have too much to say and should refrain from posting until they count to 10.

Routine? With a flaming gasoline leak, downhill, into the storm system. Okay Bull, whatever you say. LOL
Edit: Post #37

We still are running a few like this. All our bottles are CF, but maybe 10-15% of the SCBA still are wire frame jobs, kept alive by our Scott techs. Most of the guys can't understand why we have them, but some of us have done all we can to keep them.

I think ALS put it best. There is no substitute for an experinced nozzle team. Lots of career "truck" no engine time guys take the engine for granted and fail to realize the work technique involved in extinguishment.
I have used both automatic and smooth bore to put out structure fires and I prefer the smooth bore. One benifit that may seem trivial but I don't think has been mentioned is when advancing on a fire most of us move the nozzle. The smooth bore will definatly be the lightest. Anyone who has made a real push will realize that your arms get fatigued. And by real push I mean move the nozzle down the hall and extinguish more than one room. Anyone can get to a doorway and spray water to put out a room and contents fire.
I would also advocate using the smooth bore with 2.5 in standpipe situations. The chances of running into water problems are compounded when using a standpipe. Many times the PRD can not be removed. You also tend to get some real dirty water out of standpipes which could become problematic for an automatic nozzle. Those issues to me make a 2.5 with smooth bore nozzle the best choice for standpipe evolutions. An 1 1/8" tip on the smooth bore will give an effective stream with as low as 40 psi at the nozzle.
Lastly what ever you have DRILL. Make sure your chauffeurs are pumping them right. Flake out the line, chase the kinks.

I think ALS put it best. There is no substitute for an experinced nozzle team. Lots of career "truck" no engine time guys take the engine for granted and fail to realize the work technique involved in extinguishment.
I have used both automatic and smooth bore to put out structure fires and I prefer the smooth bore. One benifit that may seem trivial but I don't think has been mentioned is when advancing on a fire most of us move the nozzle. The smooth bore will definatly be the lightest. Anyone who has made a real push will realize that your arms get fatigued. And by real push I mean move the nozzle down the hall and extinguish more than one room. Anyone can get to a doorway and spray water to put out a room and contents fire.
I would also advocate using the smooth bore with 2.5 in standpipe situations. The chances of running into water problems are compounded when using a standpipe. Many times the PRD can not be removed. You also tend to get some real dirty water out of standpipes which could become problematic for an automatic nozzle. Those issues to me make a 2.5 with smooth bore nozzle the best choice for standpipe evolutions. An 1 1/8" tip on the smooth bore will give an effective stream with as low as 40 psi at the nozzle.
Lastly what ever you have DRILL. Make sure your chauffeurs are pumping them right. Flake out the line, chase the kinks.

I think ALS put it best. There is no substitute for an experinced nozzle team. Lots of career "truck" no engine time guys take the engine for granted and fail to realize the work technique involved in extinguishment.
I have used both automatic and smooth bore to put out structure fires and I prefer the smooth bore. One benifit that may seem trivial but I don't think has been mentioned is when advancing on a fire most of us move the nozzle. The smooth bore will definatly be the lightest. Anyone who has made a real push will realize that your arms get fatigued. And by real push I mean move the nozzle down the hall and extinguish more than one room. Anyone can get to a doorway and spray water to put out a room and contents fire.
I would also advocate using the smooth bore with 2.5 in standpipe situations. The chances of running into water problems are compounded when using a standpipe. Many times the PRD can not be removed. You also tend to get some real dirty water out of standpipes which could become problematic for an automatic nozzle. Those issues to me make a 2.5 with smooth bore nozzle the best choice for standpipe evolutions. An 1 1/8" tip on the smooth bore will give an effective stream with as low as 40 psi at the nozzle.
Lastly what ever you have DRILL. Make sure your chauffeurs are pumping them right. Flake out the line, chase the kinks.

I think ALS put it best. There is no substitute for an experinced nozzle team. Lots of career "truck" no engine time guys take the engine for granted and fail to realize the work technique involved in extinguishment.
I have used both automatic and smooth bore to put out structure fires and I prefer the smooth bore. One benifit that may seem trivial but I don't think has been mentioned is when advancing on a fire most of us move the nozzle. The smooth bore will definatly be the lightest. Anyone who has made a real push will realize that your arms get fatigued. And by real push I mean move the nozzle down the hall and extinguish more than one room. Anyone can get to a doorway and spray water to put out a room and contents fire.
I would also advocate using the smooth bore with 2.5 in standpipe situations. The chances of running into water problems are compounded when using a standpipe. Many times the PRD can not be removed. You also tend to get some real dirty water out of standpipes which could become problematic for an automatic nozzle. Those issues to me make a 2.5 with smooth bore nozzle the best choice for standpipe evolutions. An 1 1/8" tip on the smooth bore will give an effective stream with as low as 40 psi at the nozzle.
Lastly what ever you have DRILL. Make sure your chauffeurs are pumping them right. Flake out the line, chase the kinks.

The best combination was about 15 (give or take) years ago when you could get a wire framed pak with a carbon composite 4.5... no options just a pass alarm... That was the lightest pak I've ever worn and like you I've been through 2200's with steel bottles and survivair's with similar sized 2200 bottles all the way up to the current dumbbell that is out there.

Date:July 28th
Time: 1842
Location: 444 Madison Avenue/E 49 St.
Frequency: 154.25
Units Operating: Engines: 21,54,26
Ladders: 4,16
Bn-8
54 dumped the 10-76 and then the 2nd within a minute of his 84.
Squad 18, E-39, E-1(CFR)
R-1
Ladders 24,7,21(FAST)
BN-9,10(Safety),6,7
Division 3, E-3/HR-1, Safety, Rescue Bn, TAC-1 Mask Service, E-14 Lobby Control, RAC-1, Command Tac.
On the 2nd
Engines: 16, 34,44, E-9/SAT-1, 8(Became Available)
Ladders 35,2(Became Available)
Divison 1, R-4, BN-11, 45, 4(RUL)
Relocations
Ladders: 10/24, 20/4, 128/7, 163/35, 108/2, 119/21
Engines: 47/54, 53/26, 67/39, 258/8, 325/16. 312/23,221/3, 218/9, 28/14, 60/44
Chiefs BN-49/8, 57/7, 50/9, 17/11, 53/45, DIV-7/3
Weather Conditions: Warm/Humid
Description Of Incident:Fire in Electrical Conduit on upper floors.
Dispatchers operating: 47(JBE) 63, 130,194,250,251,284,288,759
Reporters/Writer: JBE

In every class that I am part of either as a lead or helper I state the following:
Your fire depratments arent that big--- you should have a very good idea of the type of construction in your response areas. Carry a camera and take pictures of any construction that you see in your town. Put the pictures on a power point and throw them on a screen in the station for a drill and just talk about how things are build and how they might react if there is a fire in them.
It is always good to see the building as they go up before they cover up any thing.

My comments are not in relation to the reasearch. I caution against advising people to disregard the protocol. It's one thing if you are going to do it your self but there may be some impressionable people on here that can apply your advice in a wrong matter. Plus in any event their treatment was quetioned they are much better off having followed the protocol over advice they recieved on a bulletin board. If you feel strongly make your thoughts know to those who make the protocols.

Put it this way, they expect 40,000 to sign up to take the test. Last test there were around 20,000 who passed it. The 2003 exam went into the 5000+ range on list numbers (correct me if Im wrong). On the exam from 2007 the highest list number that didn't have any bonus points (ie. Vets, Legacy, City resident) wasn't even in the top 2000. So get close to a 100 and you're in good shape get a 100+ and you are in better shape, get a 120 and you're all set. The top 2000 were only seperated by less than 3 points and all had bonus points of some kind.
On a side note,
To do some math to promote optimism (lol) heres a way to look at it: FDNY CID states it takes around 2.5 list numbers to hire one proby. In a perfect world they hold two academies a year at 220ish probys each (300 minus the 80 or so from the promo test, again a rough estimate scenerio here) for four years that'll be 1760 hires which means reaching around list number 4400ish. Thats a very rough estimate but it'll give you an idea. There are obviously way too many variables to take into consideration for an accurate estimate.
Hope I helped..

Didn't think you could mandate that. It will be interesting to see how this pans out. My advice is to those pursuing a career as a firefighter to take every exam you can.

How is it forward thinking to have 2 fire departments for one jurisdiction? In reality the best system would be for everyone to work for the same department and same chief.

To all questioning F.A.S.T team. between Cheslea,Beacon, and Castle Point we had approx. 40 firefighters on scene. Approx 25 interior. We were using 5-8 members at a time either interior or on roof. That left about 15 members outside for relief and/or F.A.S.T.. there was also 2 engines sitting idle for back up if needed. I felt with the manpower at the scene we did not need a 2nd alarm or formal team on scene. All of my interiors are at least survival trained and most have F.A.S.T. . This was just a fire on second floor and under control in about 20-30 mins. the guys made a quick stop of the fire and kept the fire damage to the front 2 rooms and part of the roof. Any further questions feels free to p.m. me. Bob Van Tassel Chief Chelsea

Or they had enough manpower of scene that they didnt need to special call FAST....FAST is just the name you give to the people providing the 2 out when you got 2 in. Around here we have special call teams called FAST or RIT, other places just use anyone else not doing anything.

One of the downsides of crosslays is people thinking they need to line them up with the front door which blocks out the truck. One positive of the reverse lay which the FDNY calls the "backstretch" is the engine sees 3 sides of the building and gets the opportunity to drop a couple lines in the front of the builing and then get out of the way. Your good hydrant spacing makes this a more viable stategy.

Tradition in the fire service is how we make firefighters. It is through our senior firefighters that our trade is handed down learned. While we are taught basic and fundamental skills in the fire academy it's the conversations at the backstep after a fire, on the apparatus floor, and in the kitchen where we hand down the tradition. When the rig shows up with a relativly young crew but they perform well at a fire it's because of tradition. So some may see it as a detriment but I see it as fundamental to who we are.

My comments are not in relation to the reasearch. I caution against advising people to disregard the protocol. It's one thing if you are going to do it your self but there may be some impressionable people on here that can apply your advice in a wrong matter. Plus in any event their treatment was quetioned they are much better off having followed the protocol over advice they recieved on a bulletin board. If you feel strongly make your thoughts know to those who make the protocols.

My comments are not in relation to the reasearch. I caution against advising people to disregard the protocol. It's one thing if you are going to do it your self but there may be some impressionable people on here that can apply your advice in a wrong matter. Plus in any event their treatment was quetioned they are much better off having followed the protocol over advice they recieved on a bulletin board. If you feel strongly make your thoughts know to those who make the protocols.

While the reasearch seems compelling I would caution against bashing people for following the protocol. I think it is more stupid and dangerous if we get people who decide to disregard the protocols based on the latest article they read.

What can we take from this?
-Sometimes you have to imagine how things will play out in the paper and the damage that can be done to the reputation of your orginization.
-If your an officer be the officer. It is your job to be the voice of reason when things get out of hand.
-It's 2011 this is how things are we are not going back to the old days.
The alleged conduct is both illegal and sick. Instead of making this thread another gripe about a black eye for the fire service lets try to be vigilant and do our jobs and make the tough decisions to keep or orginizations on the level.