16fire5

The problem with the SCBA facepieces was not that there was an issue of inferior workmanship. After a number of LODDs and serious injuries NIST did some investigation and determined that the tests that a facepiece required to pass NFPA certification were inferior to those that the rest of the PPE needed to pass. After some some hard work by NIST and their work with the NFPA committee the most recent SCBA standard (1981-2013) greatly increases the performance requirements of SCBA. All facepieces now being sold are compliant with the standard. The IAFC issued an alert on the subject a few years ago and recommended that fire departments budget to replace facepieces upon adoption of the new standard. I know some have done so.
Does this have anything to do with the most recent LODDs? Only time will tell.
What must be remembered is that even with the advancements in PPE in the last 40 years if you are in a flashover with even the best PPE you have less than 20 seconds. Gear is so good now that firefighters that have found themselves in some of these "flow-path" incidents have actually received fatal burn injuries inside their gear that did not degrade. The true weak link in the whole ensemble is the human inside the gear.
My personal opinion is our best defense is the smart firefighter that is able to understand the situation and match the strategy and tactics they employ with the situation they find.
Sorry if I sound like a broken record.

The problem with the SCBA facepieces was not that there was an issue of inferior workmanship. After a number of LODDs and serious injuries NIST did some investigation and determined that the tests that a facepiece required to pass NFPA certification were inferior to those that the rest of the PPE needed to pass. After some some hard work by NIST and their work with the NFPA committee the most recent SCBA standard (1981-2013) greatly increases the performance requirements of SCBA. All facepieces now being sold are compliant with the standard. The IAFC issued an alert on the subject a few years ago and recommended that fire departments budget to replace facepieces upon adoption of the new standard. I know some have done so.
Does this have anything to do with the most recent LODDs? Only time will tell.
What must be remembered is that even with the advancements in PPE in the last 40 years if you are in a flashover with even the best PPE you have less than 20 seconds. Gear is so good now that firefighters that have found themselves in some of these "flow-path" incidents have actually received fatal burn injuries inside their gear that did not degrade. The true weak link in the whole ensemble is the human inside the gear.
My personal opinion is our best defense is the smart firefighter that is able to understand the situation and match the strategy and tactics they employ with the situation they find.
Sorry if I sound like a broken record.

The problem with the SCBA facepieces was not that there was an issue of inferior workmanship. After a number of LODDs and serious injuries NIST did some investigation and determined that the tests that a facepiece required to pass NFPA certification were inferior to those that the rest of the PPE needed to pass. After some some hard work by NIST and their work with the NFPA committee the most recent SCBA standard (1981-2013) greatly increases the performance requirements of SCBA. All facepieces now being sold are compliant with the standard. The IAFC issued an alert on the subject a few years ago and recommended that fire departments budget to replace facepieces upon adoption of the new standard. I know some have done so.
Does this have anything to do with the most recent LODDs? Only time will tell.
What must be remembered is that even with the advancements in PPE in the last 40 years if you are in a flashover with even the best PPE you have less than 20 seconds. Gear is so good now that firefighters that have found themselves in some of these "flow-path" incidents have actually received fatal burn injuries inside their gear that did not degrade. The true weak link in the whole ensemble is the human inside the gear.
My personal opinion is our best defense is the smart firefighter that is able to understand the situation and match the strategy and tactics they employ with the situation they find.
Sorry if I sound like a broken record.

The problem with the SCBA facepieces was not that there was an issue of inferior workmanship. After a number of LODDs and serious injuries NIST did some investigation and determined that the tests that a facepiece required to pass NFPA certification were inferior to those that the rest of the PPE needed to pass. After some some hard work by NIST and their work with the NFPA committee the most recent SCBA standard (1981-2013) greatly increases the performance requirements of SCBA. All facepieces now being sold are compliant with the standard. The IAFC issued an alert on the subject a few years ago and recommended that fire departments budget to replace facepieces upon adoption of the new standard. I know some have done so.
Does this have anything to do with the most recent LODDs? Only time will tell.
What must be remembered is that even with the advancements in PPE in the last 40 years if you are in a flashover with even the best PPE you have less than 20 seconds. Gear is so good now that firefighters that have found themselves in some of these "flow-path" incidents have actually received fatal burn injuries inside their gear that did not degrade. The true weak link in the whole ensemble is the human inside the gear.
My personal opinion is our best defense is the smart firefighter that is able to understand the situation and match the strategy and tactics they employ with the situation they find.
Sorry if I sound like a broken record.

Here's my attempt at constructive criticism which I believe you open yourself up to when you post it for the world to see.
I have learned more about fire behavior in the last 5 years than in the 15 before that and I know everyone has not gotten there yet but we're working on it.
The fire was ventilation limited on arrival. I would have closed the front door until I was ready to enter. It would have limited the air the fire was getting.
Don't change the nozzle just make sure you have a straight stream.
I had no issue with the little hit they gave it from the outside it has the potential to make the push easier. That's all that was needed 10 seconds and then go in.
Use a 2 1/2 if you're not going in. Stick with the 1.75 if you will be going inside it's all about speed and maneuverability.
When there's one person in charge of the line it works better than getting advice from a few people.
You can become much faster and proficient with drilling. Practice pulling up stretching a line, masking up, and having water in 2 minutes or less.

As for facts I believe all the requirements for professional firefighters in NYS kick in if you department employs 6 or more staff. If less no 229, no 100 hours in service ect. There's even some paid drivers left in the state meaning that's their civil service title. The long island issue is separate since they have civil service employees in titles like janitor being used as career staff.

As for facts I believe all the requirements for professional firefighters in NYS kick in if you department employs 6 or more staff. If less no 229, no 100 hours in service ect. There's even some paid drivers left in the state meaning that's their civil service title. The long island issue is separate since they have civil service employees in titles like janitor being used as career staff.

Most people would accept the following
The area in question is remote from the major population center of the district and where it appears ALL the staff lives The response time to the area in question is too long from the main fire station even for rural standards To address this the Fire District has sought to build a station in the area in question. The problem pointed out by many already is Yorktown has either no or an inadequate staff in the area in question to make the station a practical solution.
The practical solution is the area lies in close enough proximity to the Millwood district with an established department and staff out of 2 fire stations. Does this mean the area needs to annexed by Millwood? Not necessarily and probably politically not going to happen. But an easy solution can be automatic aid. It's used throughout the country to ensure the closest resource responds. Now I would argue that Millwood deserves something out of the arrangement. That can be payment (how much would the station cost over a 30 year period? Would a portion of that yearly amount be a fair payment to Millwood for the small increase in responses?) or some sort of reciprocal agreement (Maybe Yorktown auto responds to reported fires in the Millwood district with a tanker, engine, or FAST or on highway boxes). These sort of things benefit the taxpayers of both districts even if the number of responses don't exactly equal each other.
While mfc2257 states that no Yorktown apparatus has been stationed in Millwood I seem to remember reading at one point that Millwood's district offered a bay for an engine. Maybe that's what Bnechis was referring to.

Here's my attempt at constructive criticism which I believe you open yourself up to when you post it for the world to see.
I have learned more about fire behavior in the last 5 years than in the 15 before that and I know everyone has not gotten there yet but we're working on it.
The fire was ventilation limited on arrival. I would have closed the front door until I was ready to enter. It would have limited the air the fire was getting.
Don't change the nozzle just make sure you have a straight stream.
I had no issue with the little hit they gave it from the outside it has the potential to make the push easier. That's all that was needed 10 seconds and then go in.
Use a 2 1/2 if you're not going in. Stick with the 1.75 if you will be going inside it's all about speed and maneuverability.
When there's one person in charge of the line it works better than getting advice from a few people.
You can become much faster and proficient with drilling. Practice pulling up stretching a line, masking up, and having water in 2 minutes or less.

Here's my attempt at constructive criticism which I believe you open yourself up to when you post it for the world to see.
I have learned more about fire behavior in the last 5 years than in the 15 before that and I know everyone has not gotten there yet but we're working on it.
The fire was ventilation limited on arrival. I would have closed the front door until I was ready to enter. It would have limited the air the fire was getting.
Don't change the nozzle just make sure you have a straight stream.
I had no issue with the little hit they gave it from the outside it has the potential to make the push easier. That's all that was needed 10 seconds and then go in.
Use a 2 1/2 if you're not going in. Stick with the 1.75 if you will be going inside it's all about speed and maneuverability.
When there's one person in charge of the line it works better than getting advice from a few people.
You can become much faster and proficient with drilling. Practice pulling up stretching a line, masking up, and having water in 2 minutes or less.

Here's my attempt at constructive criticism which I believe you open yourself up to when you post it for the world to see.
I have learned more about fire behavior in the last 5 years than in the 15 before that and I know everyone has not gotten there yet but we're working on it.
The fire was ventilation limited on arrival. I would have closed the front door until I was ready to enter. It would have limited the air the fire was getting.
Don't change the nozzle just make sure you have a straight stream.
I had no issue with the little hit they gave it from the outside it has the potential to make the push easier. That's all that was needed 10 seconds and then go in.
Use a 2 1/2 if you're not going in. Stick with the 1.75 if you will be going inside it's all about speed and maneuverability.
When there's one person in charge of the line it works better than getting advice from a few people.
You can become much faster and proficient with drilling. Practice pulling up stretching a line, masking up, and having water in 2 minutes or less.

You can not make turns in a private dwelling with a 2.5 try it you don't even need to flow water. And this fire was manageable before numb nuts decided to leave the front door open.

You ever try and put out a fire inside a private dwelling with a 2.5? The line is fine, just need someone to operate it!

Most people would accept the following
The area in question is remote from the major population center of the district and where it appears ALL the staff lives The response time to the area in question is too long from the main fire station even for rural standards To address this the Fire District has sought to build a station in the area in question. The problem pointed out by many already is Yorktown has either no or an inadequate staff in the area in question to make the station a practical solution.
The practical solution is the area lies in close enough proximity to the Millwood district with an established department and staff out of 2 fire stations. Does this mean the area needs to annexed by Millwood? Not necessarily and probably politically not going to happen. But an easy solution can be automatic aid. It's used throughout the country to ensure the closest resource responds. Now I would argue that Millwood deserves something out of the arrangement. That can be payment (how much would the station cost over a 30 year period? Would a portion of that yearly amount be a fair payment to Millwood for the small increase in responses?) or some sort of reciprocal agreement (Maybe Yorktown auto responds to reported fires in the Millwood district with a tanker, engine, or FAST or on highway boxes). These sort of things benefit the taxpayers of both districts even if the number of responses don't exactly equal each other.
While mfc2257 states that no Yorktown apparatus has been stationed in Millwood I seem to remember reading at one point that Millwood's district offered a bay for an engine. Maybe that's what Bnechis was referring to.

Most people would accept the following
The area in question is remote from the major population center of the district and where it appears ALL the staff lives The response time to the area in question is too long from the main fire station even for rural standards To address this the Fire District has sought to build a station in the area in question. The problem pointed out by many already is Yorktown has either no or an inadequate staff in the area in question to make the station a practical solution.
The practical solution is the area lies in close enough proximity to the Millwood district with an established department and staff out of 2 fire stations. Does this mean the area needs to annexed by Millwood? Not necessarily and probably politically not going to happen. But an easy solution can be automatic aid. It's used throughout the country to ensure the closest resource responds. Now I would argue that Millwood deserves something out of the arrangement. That can be payment (how much would the station cost over a 30 year period? Would a portion of that yearly amount be a fair payment to Millwood for the small increase in responses?) or some sort of reciprocal agreement (Maybe Yorktown auto responds to reported fires in the Millwood district with a tanker, engine, or FAST or on highway boxes). These sort of things benefit the taxpayers of both districts even if the number of responses don't exactly equal each other.
While mfc2257 states that no Yorktown apparatus has been stationed in Millwood I seem to remember reading at one point that Millwood's district offered a bay for an engine. Maybe that's what Bnechis was referring to.

How about a dual response??? Or will that compromise the relationship and ego's between Millwood and Yorktown when one or the other arrives first due to a job???

The article also said Turn of River had so much say because the 24 new guys are going to work in their firehouse. I'm guessing this is a mix up since no one would put 24 probies in the same firehouse at the same time. Wouldn't you spread them out?

Danbury is 15 minutes away, Westchester is at least 40 if not more. In Albany County they had a system where each dept if they had the desire could be a part of a specialized team. Luckily here our soil is not very sandy so its fairly stable. This was operator error, not a result of a true trench collapse. Realistically a cache of shoring should be kept somewhere other than at Home Depot in case $hits on. Basic building construction and knowing about loads and how to transfer them is not as common as it once was. New guys text and are on playstation all day and not out building a tree fort like they used to.

The Westchester Special Operations Task Force(WSOTF) is a mutual aid group consisting of 11 Career FD's. The departments are divided into squad companies. Every squad is trained in Hazmat/WMD, Trench, Building Collapse, Confined Space & Rope Rescue. Each Squad is equipped with Hazmat/WMD equipment (except Yonkers handles it outside the squad). Greenville, New Rochelle & Yonkers squads have collapse rescue units in addition (which carry Trench, Building Collapse, Confined Space & Rope Rescue equipment). White Plains Squad also has collapse (but I am not sure if they carry trench).
The squads are assigned as follows:
Squad # 1 Yonkers
Squad # 2 New Rochelle (with Larchmont & Pelham Manor recently being added)
Squad # 3 Mt Vernon
Squad # 4 White Plains
Squad # 5 Eastchester / Scarsdale
Squad # 6 Fairview / Greenville / Hartsdale
Each squad must respond with a minimum of 5ff's & 1 Off. But some respond with more.
Yonkers Squad Responds with a Collapse Unit. Their USAR Trailer responds with the Rescue and a USAR Task force to support the squads.
Both Greenville & White Plains have collapse units.
New Rochelle Responds with either hazmat/WMD support unit or Heavy Rescue and Collapse Rescue unit. New Rochelle was also designated for swift water rescue, has been equipped and officers have been trained as instructors. Members will be training this summer.
The system is set up so that their are approximately 54 trained/certified responders on duty in the different depts. available to respond.
Many of the squads have responded as far as Delaware County. NRFD has responded as far as Canada.
We can be requested via 60 Control. Dispatch times are generally under 5 minutes to get sent out of district.
When a tornado hit California Closets in Hawthorne (17 miles from NRFD Sta. #1) 60 Control Requested us immediately and YFD, GFD & NRFD had 50+ responders and equipment on-scene in under 25 minutes.

Minority this, minority that. When is everyone going to put race, gender, sexual preferences, religious background, completely behind us, and simply acknowledge when great work is done. What this explorer has done, was exceptional and will surpass the abilities of many Senior firefighters. We shouldn't segregate her any further by saying "this female did this, this female did that" but rather including her in the bigger picture of "this firefighter did this, this firefighter did that." And that should be applied across the board, regardless of the job title or task. The only way to truly include everyone without discriminating, is to remove superfluous titles of race, gender and sexual preference.I don't care who you are, or what you are. If you can cook an excellent cake, you're a great baker. If you can legally get me more money back on my taxes, you're a great accountant. If you can stretch a line, and force a door, vent a roof, follow the chain of command, then you're a Great firefighter.
What this video shows is a great firefighter.

Should we really be that impressed? She's a female big deal there's plenty of great female firefighters. By now we should know firefighting has nothing to do with your gender or race or anything like that. She's obviously put in real time learning her trade.
I am thoroughly impressed with the way that apparatus was set up to be run by one person. It's bad enough if there are no hydrants but requiring huge amounts of manpower to run the water supply part of the fire robs the fireground of the firefighters needed to put out the fire. I like the fact that tremendous amounts of energy were not needed to run around the rig and get things. She basically stays in a small area and accomplishes everything.

Should we really be that impressed? She's a female big deal there's plenty of great female firefighters. By now we should know firefighting has nothing to do with your gender or race or anything like that. She's obviously put in real time learning her trade.
I am thoroughly impressed with the way that apparatus was set up to be run by one person. It's bad enough if there are no hydrants but requiring huge amounts of manpower to run the water supply part of the fire robs the fireground of the firefighters needed to put out the fire. I like the fact that tremendous amounts of energy were not needed to run around the rig and get things. She basically stays in a small area and accomplishes everything.

Should we really be that impressed? She's a female big deal there's plenty of great female firefighters. By now we should know firefighting has nothing to do with your gender or race or anything like that. She's obviously put in real time learning her trade.
I am thoroughly impressed with the way that apparatus was set up to be run by one person. It's bad enough if there are no hydrants but requiring huge amounts of manpower to run the water supply part of the fire robs the fireground of the firefighters needed to put out the fire. I like the fact that tremendous amounts of energy were not needed to run around the rig and get things. She basically stays in a small area and accomplishes everything.

A factor in this is where this problem is. The heroin epidemic is effecting affluent areas more than the ghetto. Like it or not this gets lawmakers attention and something has to be done! It's no secret that the FDNY trained the Staten Island companies first because they were encountering it at a higher rate per capita.
I'm not disagreeing with what most of the posters are saying just kinda weighing in on how we got to this legislative action. In reality Bnechis is probably right and most of the fatal overdoses are dead prior to the arrival of any first responders.

A couple of thoughts here.
I really have no knowledge of how the HFD operates aside from what I read here. What it sounds like is the Chief turns out first since he doesn't dress and gets there first and does the 360 as the other apparatus is entering the block. So he or she isn't really a viable option for running in and making a grab. In the FDNY everywhere I have ever been the Chief lets the companies out and closes the doors for everyone and then trails all the apparatus. In fact if we are responding and come upon the chief 9 times out of 10 they pull over and let us by.
As for the conundrum of what to do when faced with a known life hazard upon arrival with limited staffing I see no hard fast answer. Our procedures are quite clear that an engine should not abandon stretching a line to address life hazards aside from extreme conditions. Now this was one of those things I used to fight in my mind when I would first read it but along with many others I now come to realize the genius of those sharp lads who wrote this stuff back in the day. The reality is if there's a fire bad enough to trap someone the situation is probably getting worse by the second. If we forgo stretching the line the fire will get bigger. That's not to say that in some situations you may need to go for the life hazard but it's one of the ultimate judgement calls. Putting out the fire makes lots of problems go away while letting the fire grow makes new problems by the second.
As for the 360 if you're not doing it you should start right now. Do it on everything to make it second nature (CO, Gas, AFAs). The amount of information that you can gain with it is immense. In that private dwelling fire a major part of it is ruling out the basement fire which is critical and not always apparent-think balloon frame. If you look back at a lot of LODD country wide over the last 20 years you see plenty of incidents where something that could easily have been determined by the 360 killed members.