16fire5

1st) can you define a heavy rescue?
2nd) owning all of these apparatus is only usefull if it can be staffed 24/7/365 with qualified interior firefighters. You already told us that members do not respond if they dont believe its a "real" call.
3rd) Does all of this apparatus equal quality fire protection? The Town of Ossining has a split ISO rating, with part of the town being rated a 9. This is on a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being best and 10 being no fire department. So lets compare it to Palm Beach County which also has a split, but its worst area is a 4. That means their worst area will pay 35-40% less on fire insurance and as you pointed out they have less apparatus to manage this.

You know this is what I hate about the fire service. Which way do we want it? Do you want to be dedicated professional firefighters who don't receive a paycheck or do you want to be well intentioned neighbors who may or may not be able to put out the fire or rescue a loved one who don't receive a paycheck.
It can't be both ways. You can't demand equal treatment on the one hand while you're saying don't they understand we're volunteers and don't want to show up at BS calls.
Are they clueless or is your FD clueless about public relations. If people think that the FD is staffed it's your job to tell them otherwise.
I'm so tired of the complaints about being treated differently because you're volunteer and then demanded that you be treated differently because you're volunteer. Do it right, do it professionally, do it promptly and it won't matter whether you're paid or not.

Even with consolidation some of the stations are going to require career staffing at least 0700-1700 to address the issue.

I rarely stick my 2 cents in on NYC issues as I feel there are many on this board more qualified to comment than I am, however, I must chime in here...
I am shocked that you could make this statement. You are a paramedic working in NYC and you are stating that the FDNY CFR program does not work and should be stopped?
You also state that if the CFR program was stopped "20 fire companies could be closed without a problem".
What did you smoke before typing??????

DOJ made it know that if you used the CPAT it would not be ruled discriminatory against females. Which I agree was a bad choice. The nations most vertical city could certainly make a case that a more difficult agility test was warranted. Lets face it the gear and tool assignments are heavier than 10 years ago. As we see there is no way to win in the game of policical correctness if you attempt to maintain high standards. That's why places finally throw in the towel and go to pass fail. Is the stupid Chicago method really more fair when they are picking out of a hat?

So it seems that some places are changing over from abrasive disc (Aluminum Oxide) blades to diamond blades on their forcible entry saws. Bill Gustin talks about it in a recent article he did in Fire Engineering. The other day I noticed that a SOC unit had one of these blades on their saw. I'm wondering what people think. A problem with the aluminum oxide blades is that they loose diameter as they cut. This is not the case with diamond blades and the new blades are thinner so the kerf is less which probably helps. I'm wondering how good they cut, what they cut, and how they last.

it all depemds on the blade and what you pay for it- we use a diamond matrix blade that cost close to $500 dollars that last longer than 30 plus abrasive blades and will cut just about anything. Remember you get what you pay for!

I give the guy a lot of credit because he did not jump on the bandwagon or take an easy out. He seems to truly get it and very few non members do. As for the Utica guys hopefully they had some senior men to sit with at the kitchen table afterwards to reinforce what they already knew sometimes no matter what you do it's not enough sometimes which is a hard pill to swallow especially when children are involved.

I give the guy a lot of credit because he did not jump on the bandwagon or take an easy out. He seems to truly get it and very few non members do. As for the Utica guys hopefully they had some senior men to sit with at the kitchen table afterwards to reinforce what they already knew sometimes no matter what you do it's not enough sometimes which is a hard pill to swallow especially when children are involved.

So it seems that some places are changing over from abrasive disc (Aluminum Oxide) blades to diamond blades on their forcible entry saws. Bill Gustin talks about it in a recent article he did in Fire Engineering. The other day I noticed that a SOC unit had one of these blades on their saw. I'm wondering what people think. A problem with the aluminum oxide blades is that they loose diameter as they cut. This is not the case with diamond blades and the new blades are thinner so the kerf is less which probably helps. I'm wondering how good they cut, what they cut, and how they last.

This story makes me very happy about one point - I don't live anywhere near Chicago. This is absurd and totally demoralizing to all the men and women who took and passed the exam to become firefighters.
I wonder how the judge would feel if she was passed over for law school with a score of 89 so that a person with a score of 64 could take her seat.
I guess this means they better start passing out diplomas to those who failed out of HS also because apparently grades don't matter.

Tradition in the fire service is how we make firefighters. It is through our senior firefighters that our trade is handed down learned. While we are taught basic and fundamental skills in the fire academy it's the conversations at the backstep after a fire, on the apparatus floor, and in the kitchen where we hand down the tradition. When the rig shows up with a relativly young crew but they perform well at a fire it's because of tradition. So some may see it as a detriment but I see it as fundamental to who we are.

Tradition in the fire service is how we make firefighters. It is through our senior firefighters that our trade is handed down learned. While we are taught basic and fundamental skills in the fire academy it's the conversations at the backstep after a fire, on the apparatus floor, and in the kitchen where we hand down the tradition. When the rig shows up with a relativly young crew but they perform well at a fire it's because of tradition. So some may see it as a detriment but I see it as fundamental to who we are.

I give the guy a lot of credit because he did not jump on the bandwagon or take an easy out. He seems to truly get it and very few non members do. As for the Utica guys hopefully they had some senior men to sit with at the kitchen table afterwards to reinforce what they already knew sometimes no matter what you do it's not enough sometimes which is a hard pill to swallow especially when children are involved.

We have in the past few years started publishing prehospital saves by engine companies in department orders similar to unit citations. The numbers are pretty impressive. I would say we do have a positive impact. Does it suck that that a segment of the public abuses ems and the first responders? Yes. But realize many of the things being complained about here were put in place for responder safety. The units are sent on the highway to provide protection. Also having fire with you many times gives you safety in numbers. I really can't see how anyone can make the case that a 2 person ems crew is better off by themselves at a serious call.

The system works and volunteers exist, right???? How come a fire on 4/15/11, at 1200pm,on Hoyclo Dr, a road in the TOR district but much closer to LRFD Sta 2, the third due engine, Eng 8, placed the initial hand line in operation?? Long Ridge Eng 74 first due with one guy did nothing. Second due TOR Eng 64 with 3 guys did nothing. Three minutes later third due Eng 8 arrived with 3 guys, and most importantly a company officer, stretched the first line off of Eng 74. How come Unit 4, the SFRD Deputy Chief, was the IC?? Were are the volunteer firefighters? Were are the volunteer chiefs? I know, it is Malloys fault. Or perhaps there are not enough qualified volunteers around or they are unable to respond in a timely fashion. It is not 1985 anymore and it is time for a change.
P.S. I know that this statement has grammatical errors but it was not sent to a governing body so I took some liberties.

Its that time of the year again, time to leave your district with little or no coverage to make people in another district( sometimes far enough away to be in a different area code/county/state) think that you have a full fledged state of the art firefighting force. Little do they know that what they see is usually all you have, and as for for coverage back home there may as well be a few cows wandering around the empty bays in your firehouse. Don't jump on me right away, I have seen things like this go on in a few different departments. My question to all of you who are so eager to share parade dates and shine each others brass is; when you go out of district, what apparatus do you take, who do you take, what rigs do you leave behind, who stays in the district, and what percentage of your those people who stay behind are interior firefighters? Just curious.

Apparently, the end is near....

Hey guy,
These firefighters did their best to try and help you out, but the confusion was created by you when you stated you were looking for something, yet upon further questioning, they pointed out to you you might actually be looking for something else (supply engine vs. more versatile pumper).
Don't come back with antagonistic comments and insult the members. A guy with a couple of dozen posts on this board has no right calling out more experienced members here as rookies, and green-horns, etc. If you don't like what they have to say, the best course of action is to ignore it, and move on. Okay?
I'd ask the other members to cease and desist with this guy; don't take the bait.
Have a nice weekend everybody.

I am reading this a little different than most of the other commenters. I have speced a number of vehicles for a number of different depts. and based on what you've written, you are working backwards.
It is very common for depts to decide on a manufacturer, before they decide what the depts needs are. Every dealer who reads your spec will know who you want and often few others will invest in bidding the rig (it costs them $1,000's and if they know you want something else, why waste their $$$). I have also seen depts. that make it so clear that they want one brand, that their is only one bid and they get hit with an extra $60,000 for the rig, because everyone knew that was the rig before the spec went out.
There are clearly differences from one manufacturer to the next. But the biggest differences when it comes to quality, reliability, service, etc. is your spec and the local dealer. I have seen many apparatus committee's that spend days figuring out if the light bar sould be red on the left and blue on the right (or vis versa), but have no idea what pump is right, or the difference between a jake brake and a telma retarder (and how that will affect maintenance). I have also seen good spec's that were not followed because the manufacture &/or dealer knew you'd accept whatever they built as long as the stripes and lights looked cool.
In the last 25 years my dept. has owned: ALF (2 different companies), LTI, Maxium, Pierce, RD Murry, Seagrave, Sutphen, SVI and we are soon to get a smeal. They have been on ALF, Pirce, Seagrave, Simon-Duplex, Spartan and Sutphen Chassies.
All have been fine and all have had major issues.
Almost every manufacture uses the same tires, wheels, axles, brakes, engines, transmissions, pumps, drivetrains, seats, mirrors, lights, filters, etc.
Write a good performance spec that meets your needs then let the dealers fight to prove who will build you what you want for the most reasonable (note: not cheapest) price.
If the bids are close, then consider reputations, recommendations and past experiences in making the final cut.
Remember your spec (and the follow thru) is what will make or break this engine.
Good luck

I was reading the "ghost lettering" thread and as per on of the administrators suggested to start a new topic, so here goes............
Left me first say this isn't a knock at any specific department per say but an observation that I have seen for a while now that would fall under this topic
using "your chiefs" car to go to another county and park it at the train station when you work in NYC. I think that this example is a total waste of resources for 10-12 hours a day it's sitting in a parking lot not even in your response area, its used as a glorified station car. Plus add in the tolls (if there is any) and gas
just my thoughts....

"So for decades, the NYPD ESU was the sole provider of emergency rescue services in the City of New York."
Rescue 1 1915 Rescue 2 1925 Rescue 3 1931 Rescue 4 1931 Rescue 5 1948. So I don't think the good men of the NYPD ESU were the sole provider's of rescue services. FDNY was right along side of them!

Actually the "Space Case" is the piece of cribbing with angle iron attached and airbag bungie corded to it used in the situation of a person trapped between a train and the platform. Pretty easy to make and if you contact your railroad you could probably figure out a place to do the training with a training manakin. FDNY units get this training at the Rock where there is a building with 2 subway cars and a subway station. Units practice using the airbags and/or bottle jack to lift a train. Very good training.

Actually the "Space Case" is the piece of cribbing with angle iron attached and airbag bungie corded to it used in the situation of a person trapped between a train and the platform. Pretty easy to make and if you contact your railroad you could probably figure out a place to do the training with a training manakin. FDNY units get this training at the Rock where there is a building with 2 subway cars and a subway station. Units practice using the airbags and/or bottle jack to lift a train. Very good training.

Not uncommon for Manhattan Truck companies to respond to these incidents. After the area is cordoned off the will knock off the remaining ice that prevents a falling hazard. Same think happens with broken windows in the high rises.