16fire5

I'll bite. I really don't correlate those who propose safe fireground practices with writing off civilians. Most fire service leaders who advocate these changes are doing their jobs and looking to protect their members. The thought that our attempt to be safe on the fireground is killing or going to kill more civilians in fires is backed up by what? They are dying because they don't have working smoke detectors. The fact is the vast majority of fireground traumatic fatalities occur when there was no legitimate civilian life hazard. Are there savable civilians who die in fires? Probably but I doubt the cause is a safety mindset in the fire service. If we could get some departments on scene faster and train all our members to be on their A game when they get off the rig we'd be better serving the civilians that count on us. When the homeowner meets you on the lawn and says everyone is out should get treated differently then when you pull up and 3AM and no one meets you. Those the preach things like aggressive search regardless of intelligence gathered during size-up are pandering to the group that wants to hear that. I get it we all want be aggressive and fight fires but being a professional is not about doing want we want to do but doing what we should be do.

So we always hear about this thing called a risk benefit analysis. Apparently most people don't know what it is or don't do them. You should be doing it in your head quickly all the time.
So is this risk worth the benefit?

So we always hear about this thing called a risk benefit analysis. Apparently most people don't know what it is or don't do them. You should be doing it in your head quickly all the time.
So is this risk worth the benefit?

So we always hear about this thing called a risk benefit analysis. Apparently most people don't know what it is or don't do them. You should be doing it in your head quickly all the time.
So is this risk worth the benefit?

I'm not a train fan but my little guy is so we do a lot of electronic watching.

I believe the urbanization referred to in the article is not that the suburbs and rural areas are becoming more populated. The latest census has showed that more people are choosing to live in urban areas. A higher percentage of the population now lives in cites and rural areas are slowly dying. This becomes a real challenge for volunteer departments since most of these rural places will never be able to support career staff. The studies also show that the average age of volunteers is getting older. While the article says most places are protected by volunteer departments that is very misleading. That may be true if we look at land area and the sheer number of volunteer departments there are. The fact is around 70% of the population is protected by career firefighters who make up 30% of the American fire service. This is not a paid vs. volly issue it's facts. If you have 30% of the firefighters doing 70% of the workload they are going to be more proficient and their workload is probably higher per capita anyway due to urban challenges.

I believe the urbanization referred to in the article is not that the suburbs and rural areas are becoming more populated. The latest census has showed that more people are choosing to live in urban areas. A higher percentage of the population now lives in cites and rural areas are slowly dying. This becomes a real challenge for volunteer departments since most of these rural places will never be able to support career staff. The studies also show that the average age of volunteers is getting older. While the article says most places are protected by volunteer departments that is very misleading. That may be true if we look at land area and the sheer number of volunteer departments there are. The fact is around 70% of the population is protected by career firefighters who make up 30% of the American fire service. This is not a paid vs. volly issue it's facts. If you have 30% of the firefighters doing 70% of the workload they are going to be more proficient and their workload is probably higher per capita anyway due to urban challenges.

I believe the urbanization referred to in the article is not that the suburbs and rural areas are becoming more populated. The latest census has showed that more people are choosing to live in urban areas. A higher percentage of the population now lives in cites and rural areas are slowly dying. This becomes a real challenge for volunteer departments since most of these rural places will never be able to support career staff. The studies also show that the average age of volunteers is getting older. While the article says most places are protected by volunteer departments that is very misleading. That may be true if we look at land area and the sheer number of volunteer departments there are. The fact is around 70% of the population is protected by career firefighters who make up 30% of the American fire service. This is not a paid vs. volly issue it's facts. If you have 30% of the firefighters doing 70% of the workload they are going to be more proficient and their workload is probably higher per capita anyway due to urban challenges.

Until then drill on/after runs in the buildings in your response area. This way you see more than one setup. You get to know where they are located and the different things you do for each one.

The parade of cars with the lights on has been going on all summer. So has impact with a car from every precinct coming to help ones being plagued by the shootings. Also flooding these areas with rookies. I'm surprised it's taken this long to make the papers. If the bad guys know they can carry their guns with no fear of being searched guess what? They are going to carry their guns.

I don't know of any police departments ore highway departments that elect their supervisors. In one department that I collaborated with on some work with they had qualifications (which were not over the top), a written test (which I think was basic), scenarios, and interview. They used neighboring chiefs to grade scenarios and interviews. Seemed to be a very fair process. But a big difference is they're not changing things up every year. It didn't hurt that the chief has been there for a long time and is a strong extremely qualified leader.

I respect your honest answer to my question. For me I have only ever and would only ever volunteer in the town I live in.
The standard way a volunteer fire department is run here in the north east is antiquated and broken. Too often operations is a secondary priority.
I was at a conference a few years ago in the mid west and I was talking to some fire chiefs and one was saying to the group "did you know there are some places that still have elections to decide who's chief?" I had to laugh because are there any volunteer department's in New York that don't do it that way?

Granted, Robin Williams death was tragic. He was a great man. However, there are numerous Soldiers, Firefighters, Law Enforcement Officers, Paramedics, EMT's, Dispatchers and just regular people that also are great people from all walks of life that commit suicide everyday and it goes unnoticed that there is an epidemic that has been going on for a long time. Many of us know people who ended their own life and only realized the signs and the fact that they should have done something after it was too late.
And because a celebrity takes his own life, it gets noticed and all of a sudden, it's a big deal and everyone is talking about how people should help people contemplating suicide and their should be more attention given to the issue. But the fact of the matter is, once the Robin Williams media circus calms down, people will again forget about this silent killer and the stigma that prevents many from seeking help will return. People don't understand that suicide prevention is not something simple or easy to do.
It's disgusting the way some EMS workers and Police Officers treat and label "EDP's"....even that term is wrong and hurtful, and I feel that contributes to many people in emergency services not seeking help. I also believe they fear being shunned for the rest of their careers should it make it to the gossip circuit or the kitchen table. There are some cruel people in our business who enjoy seeing their peers suffer.
On a lager scale, our mental health and wellness care system is understaffed, underfunded, and unable to give people true tools to succeed in many cases. This is not something that's going to be or can be solved by giving people antidepressants.

Contemplating suicide is a deep and dark place to be, and, in most situations, all it takes is one friend who truly cares to save a life. Sadly, there will always be people who lose all hope for their lives, feel very alone and uncared about in that moment, and don't see another way out or a path towards a happy future, and nobody will or can intervene at that point. In most cases, suicide is not an impulsive act.

I respect your honest answer to my question. For me I have only ever and would only ever volunteer in the town I live in.
The standard way a volunteer fire department is run here in the north east is antiquated and broken. Too often operations is a secondary priority.
I was at a conference a few years ago in the mid west and I was talking to some fire chiefs and one was saying to the group "did you know there are some places that still have elections to decide who's chief?" I had to laugh because are there any volunteer department's in New York that don't do it that way?

What happens to members in these departments that try to concern themselves mostly with training and operations and don't attend parades?

As bad as this sounds I have faith that Sleepy Hollow's loss will be another department's big gain and this guy will land on his feet maybe someplace not so sleepy.

As bad as this sounds I have faith that Sleepy Hollow's loss will be another department's big gain and this guy will land on his feet maybe someplace not so sleepy.

As bad as this sounds I have faith that Sleepy Hollow's loss will be another department's big gain and this guy will land on his feet maybe someplace not so sleepy.

As bad as this sounds I have faith that Sleepy Hollow's loss will be another department's big gain and this guy will land on his feet maybe someplace not so sleepy.

As bad as this sounds I have faith that Sleepy Hollow's loss will be another department's big gain and this guy will land on his feet maybe someplace not so sleepy.

As bad as this sounds I have faith that Sleepy Hollow's loss will be another department's big gain and this guy will land on his feet maybe someplace not so sleepy.

I agree it's not an apples to apples comparison. I'm not 100% sure what he's talking abut but The Villages has a large stand alone department that is not run by Rural Metro and is an IAFF local, I believe the same is true for the County Fire Rescue. Rural/Metro replaced the county EMS organization after they went under a few years ago. As for Rural Metro pursuing large municipal fire contracts that does not appear to be the case. The company nearly went under itself. Their largest flagship operation (Scottsdale, AZ) became a municipal department.

Until then drill on/after runs in the buildings in your response area. This way you see more than one setup. You get to know where they are located and the different things you do for each one.

Until then drill on/after runs in the buildings in your response area. This way you see more than one setup. You get to know where they are located and the different things you do for each one.

One might assume that the Fire Chief has either been directed by the municipality to assist the VAC or has gotten approval to do so, in which case he'd like say that is what you get when you don't fully fund a FD. How is this any different than if the same engine is tied up on a BS run? The community generally determines the level of risk they're willing to accept vs. the costs. I get the thought process, but there is a point where many (most) communities will not fund staffed fire apparatus due to the low volume of fire calls. This outcry over a one man engine?
For many of us underfunded/understaffed FD's, you take any excuse you can to get another firefighter on shift. If I hire someone to do EMS and that occurs 2 to 3 times a day, the other 5, 8, 10, 0r 22 hours a shift I have one more on duty firefighter. That's a win in small town America. The key is being honest with the taxpayer about what their getting and the risks, ultimately they'll decide the level they are comfortable with.
I might add that in small town America where the daily fire problem is little to non-existent, a citizen in distress is an active emergency that is addressed, we don't withhold care "in case something else happens", when statistically it won't. As call volumes grow, the staff either needs to grow with it, or the second call is slower to be answered, again, at the final determination of the taxpayers. All you can do is educate them, falsely hiding your deficiencies only harms the public and the membership.