AFS1970

Engine 77 and 79 are the engines assigned to Thruway calls in Tarrytown. Engine 77 is the one looking into getting a new rig through grants if possible. The fireboat is definitely a necessity considering that the bridge construction and other emergencies that could occur are more likely to happen now than before construction. A new boat will allow for better equipment to be used to save lives in boating accidents, construction accidents, and jumpers. Also, with a new fireboat it can be possible to fight a fire effectively with new types of extinguishing systems on the boat. Tarrytown VAC got a new rig not too long ago so I'm not sure that I heard much about them getting another rig but there old one is fairly old so if they need it, they need it. Nothing wrong with getting new equipment because it will definitely be used. This equipment is necessary to ensure that we can provide adequate service and response time as we usually do.

As stated earlier, and I agree that to "expedite" is a phrase we use to make ourselves on scene feel better in an uncomfortable or serious situation. It can be beneficial to get across that the call is serious and we need all hands on deck as soon as possible but at what cost?
For example, you have an ambulance driver who just got cleared 2 days prior to drive the ambulance. This is also the first time that the driver has ever drove anything bigger than a Toyota Prius. Now the driver hears the word "expedite" and pushes the gas pedal through the floor without using "due regard" on his/her response. Keep in mind this is the first time he/she has ever responded to a call, want to impress the other members on his/her "savy driving" and then rolls and crashes the ambulance.
(I know arguments can occur that "well that person shouldn't be driving the ambulance but lets forget about that because it DOES and CAN happen, especially in the world of volunteers)
Words like "expedite" may very well be uncomfortable for incoming responders. What should be done is to either communicate with Dispatch or to the Incoming Units on the patients current condition.
Now you are NOT telling the new driver how to drive which will make the driver feel more comfortable. Also you are giving crucial updates to the EMT's/Medics/First Responders to help in best outcome of the patient.
Will everyone stop saying "expedite?" No. Its a good discussion, especially for officers and those who really do care, but radio etiquette and proper word choices that should and should not be said over the radio is way too long of a discussion and will never end.
Just my 2 cents...

What it really means is this.
There is nothing I can do, but people are watching, so I will say something meaningless into my radio so that the public thinks I am in complete command and control of the situation.

What it really means is this.
There is nothing I can do, but people are watching, so I will say something meaningless into my radio so that the public thinks I am in complete command and control of the situation.

I just wanted to give Elmsford FD and the other agencies involved much props in they handled this weekend's tragic fatal structure fire.
Click Here To Read The Incident Alert
It was a very difficult fire, to say the least. Units arrived almost immediately, and the attic was engulfed as was most of the second story upon arrival. Lines were stretched, and aggressive primary searches were conducted, with firefighters even trying to dig through some of the debris from the collapsing attic which they could not reach due to the fire. The Incident Commander has to make the difficult choice to remove the firefighters from the building, in which the structural integrity was quickly disintegrating. The child who was found in the attic bedroom several hours later (12:30PM the next day), and stood no chance, no matter what the firefighters did or when they did it. The firefighters who tried to locate the child are suffering tremendous emotional pain because of their heroics. There's obviously much more to the story, but that's just a quick synopsis.
To the Incident Commanders, I can only imagine how tough your choices that you had to make must have been.
Daisy, WCPD's Detective John Peter's Arson Dog, was also on scene assisting C&O trying to determine the cause, which I didn't see posted in the media.
I was also told that Nicky Melillo was on scene with Valhalla VAC. As many of you know, his brother, Chucky Mellilo, died almost 1 year ago near the date of the fire. He was out there making his brother proud, and doing exactly what his brother would have done.
Thoughts and prayers are with all involved while they recover from this.

At first I thought this was not going to be useful for me, but then I found myself not to far from the scene of an incident but with spotty wireless so I did not post an IA. I was thinking that if someone was on the channel at the time I might have been able to relay information to another IA writer.

Please look at this image, I have used it before and feel its time to use it again, this is how I feel about the matter simply stated; Brotherhood MEANS Brotherhood, no parameters or exceptions, I feel egos have gotten in the way of brotherhood and true family.
Stay Safe all.

I may have started this topic but lets not forget I am also a Moderator. Lets keep the personal jabs out of the discussion and let each other share their opinions and beliefs, this is un-professional to say the least and these type of personal attacks have no merrit either in this discussion or this site. No more personal insults or warnings will go out.
Please carry on the informative part of this discussion and keep personal insults out of it. Thank you.

It's rarely quite that simple. In many cases, the municipality just goes on using mutual aid to a greater extent. Too few of the public understand the system that covers there homes and businesses. They do understand their paycheck and taxes. I agree that I'd not volunteer where anyone is paid or where it might effect a paid job, but working in a combination department for 18+ years I can tell you reality is far from cut and dry. Our Union whispered about squeezing the call firefighters out as they didn't trust their level of training and commitment. The question posed to them was would they rather trust volunteers from mutual aid departments that they had very little exposure to and had not trained with or the 'volunteers" with who they routinely trained, and worked under the same SOG's? Our FD is sooo far from having enough personnel to handle a decent job with on duty staff that the budget would have to triple to remote come close, a dose of reality. So, sometimes breaking bread with guys who are willing to make sure you get home to your wife in kids but go home after drill makes sense. Not everyone's reality is the same.

Here is where I do not agree with some of you guys...this is a bit wrong on all levels. If you are career in a combination department and you feel "threatened" by the volunteers that might "take your job away" there is more issues there then you know. If I was a volunteer in a career combination department I would not be trying to take anyones job. I would have my resume in for when there are openings from retirement or someone moving out of the area, but I would never try to back-stab a brother who is already being paid for the job. I am still going to be volunteer and have tremendous pride in being able to respond to calls and help where I can, but would never step on the toes of the career crew, or back-stab them in any way. If this is happening; SHAME on those members.
But on the other hand; SHAME on those career guys simply for thinking that just because a volunteer shows up, they are taking the "fork" out of your mouths. They are showing up to help you, back you up and make sure you all go home at the end of the shift so you CAN pick up that fork with your family. We should alll WORK TOGETHER, dont you think??? This thinking is all wrong and I am not trying to hurt anyones feelings here either, but those of us volunteers that take pride in our training and pride in our ability to help others only want to help; both the people we serve and our career brothers/sisters who are severely under-staffed and under-funded. I for one dont want to see any ONE career firefighter have to do EVERYTHING alone, I want to help, I want to make sure they dont get hurt, not back-stab them.
Maybe I am wrong in this line of thinking and i know there are those scum out there trying to take your job from you, everyone wants to be career firefighter and support their families doing a job they LOVE, but it shouldnt divide us...shouldnt it?

More than a few years ago, talking with someone from a different department than I was in, he told me of a plan to renovate part of their meeting hall into a new day room. I asked why as the building had recently had an extension put on that added a new day room as well as other rooms. His answer was so that the volunteers would have somewhere to hang out. I had been to that station and sat in the day room with both volunteer and paid firefighters, so this was kind of confusing. However the clear sentiment was one of building a wall of separation.
This is not brotherhood.
The idea that you might have two groups in the same firehouse hanging out in two different rooms then meeting in the dark of night on the apparatus floor and expecting to work as a cohesive crew makes no sense to me. I suppose this is a slightly more dramatic form of everyone off on their own with cellphones or laptops.
However the guy who told me of the two day rooms plan plan is a brother. We have been to training together and later at fires and other calls together. I would work side by side with him again any time. He is now a career firefighter.

More than a few years ago, talking with someone from a different department than I was in, he told me of a plan to renovate part of their meeting hall into a new day room. I asked why as the building had recently had an extension put on that added a new day room as well as other rooms. His answer was so that the volunteers would have somewhere to hang out. I had been to that station and sat in the day room with both volunteer and paid firefighters, so this was kind of confusing. However the clear sentiment was one of building a wall of separation.
This is not brotherhood.
The idea that you might have two groups in the same firehouse hanging out in two different rooms then meeting in the dark of night on the apparatus floor and expecting to work as a cohesive crew makes no sense to me. I suppose this is a slightly more dramatic form of everyone off on their own with cellphones or laptops.
However the guy who told me of the two day rooms plan plan is a brother. We have been to training together and later at fires and other calls together. I would work side by side with him again any time. He is now a career firefighter.

More than a few years ago, talking with someone from a different department than I was in, he told me of a plan to renovate part of their meeting hall into a new day room. I asked why as the building had recently had an extension put on that added a new day room as well as other rooms. His answer was so that the volunteers would have somewhere to hang out. I had been to that station and sat in the day room with both volunteer and paid firefighters, so this was kind of confusing. However the clear sentiment was one of building a wall of separation.
This is not brotherhood.
The idea that you might have two groups in the same firehouse hanging out in two different rooms then meeting in the dark of night on the apparatus floor and expecting to work as a cohesive crew makes no sense to me. I suppose this is a slightly more dramatic form of everyone off on their own with cellphones or laptops.
However the guy who told me of the two day rooms plan plan is a brother. We have been to training together and later at fires and other calls together. I would work side by side with him again any time. He is now a career firefighter.

When my city first did DWI checkpoints (before DWI became OUI) they used to have a fire stand by. This was new and they were just learning how to do this and the thought was that there would be some horrible crash as someone tried to run the roadblock. Instead of just stopping cars on the street, they took a really wide section of roadway, one of our only 6 lane stretches. They directed all traffic into a parking lot / driveway where the actual checkpoint ran. They had bails of hay set up behind the barricades. It was quite a show. The Engine crew that was there watched all the action from the cab and said it was very entertaining.
Fast forward a few years and these are now done with a few cars and a truck full of cones and sawhorses. The command post is there as a mobile office. The PD also has their own light trailer now. No on site fire component at all. However I can see where a sloppy reporter seeing firefighters at one of these would write a story like the one that started this.

Thank you cogs, you beat me to it.
I never knew that about him, but I will watch all of his movies now and respect him a lot more. That to me is a true test of brotherhood...here you have a famous actor, successfull, he could have very easily made a big spectacle out of it with video cameras and taking pictures of him in his gear shaking babies and kissing hands and "helping" his former work buddies dig through the pile. But he didnt. He kept his identity secret and did what he knew was right and went to look for the guys that were lost and never made it public. THATS brotherhood.

The brotherhood is still there. However social media outlets where guys can go and cry about mundane immature stuff that should be kept in house and worked out has ruined a lot of it.
And - no disrespect to this website - places like this where everyone climbs on to their high horses and points fingers PUBLICLY instead of manning up and shooting a brother a private message, calling them or dropping in to their firehouse to talk to them man to man has ruined a lot of what we all used to know.
I appreciate the things I have learned here and on other websites. I have made great friends and taken what I picked up here and put it to good use. However, there has been more drama for me and my department because of sites like this, Facebook and Myspace when it was still around. I have been accused of doing things I didn't. My department and members of it have been falsely or inaccurately implicated in things they didn't do. Friendships and professional relationships with neighboring departments have been tested, strained or ruined when someone sees/hears something and reacts to it before knowing the facts.
We live in the information age. Everyone can hide behind a keyboard and be an expert on everything. They can call someone out for something with little to no facts, denouncing them to their easily impressionable audience.
Let this be a lesson to all of you up and coming members of the fire service - WORK YOUR PROBLEMS OUT WITHIN THE CONFINES OF YOUR FIREHOUSE! If you can't say something to someone face to face, DON'T SAY IT!
And to be "politically correct," we're not a brotherhood anymore. Many females have joined our ranks and proven to be exceptional parts of our department families. I like to say that the fire department is a family, and like the families we've been born into, we don't always agree, we don't even always like each other, but at the end of the day - we are (or should be) there for one another when the chips are down.
I'm done. Thanks for listening.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that I am not always liked, and often say things that offend people. It comes with a deep sense of pride in what I do and the department I am proud to be a part of. But, at the end of the day, I can sleep knowing I do what is best for my people and what's in the best interest of keeping our department going strong for years to come.

 If you need to test them, I do not think you should be sending your daughter there. you either know it or you do not

Brotherhood Test:
Here's how you test a firehouse to see if they are Brothers or not.
Send your daughter to a firehouse at 0200 with a flat tire and explaining that her father is a firefighter and he is working tonight.
If they point to a 24hr towing service down the street or give her the number for AAA, they are not Brothers.
If they tell her to pull around back, change the flat, change the oil, rotate the tires, wash the windshield, and give her a cup of coffee and a piece of cake. Then they are Brothers.

You know this is quite simple when you come right down to it. Brotherhood is really just remembering to follow a few core tenets:
Treat others as you want to be treated.
Remember we're here to serve so put others above yourself
The wants and needs of the many outweigh the wants and needs of the few...or the one.
Everyone has a place to serve and all service is valuable and important even if only in small amounts.
I am who and what I am in the fire service because of those who came before me and those who serve with me.
WE are the fire service, I am only one very small part of it.

My kids are all grown now, but when they were younger and before cell phones, I always told them that if for any reason they were in trouble and needed help, go the nearest fire station and tell them that their dad is a fireman and they would help them. I would hope that fire fighters today with young kids still have that feeling.

Sadly we end up enforcing this lack of brotherhood ourselves. It starts innocently enough with some good natured rivalry between companies that ends up leading to almsot a breakdown of communications. We set up rules that are designed to make us take sides.
Here are a couple of examples. In my old department that was combination when I joined, the career FF's were still allowed to be active Volunteers on their time off, well er sort of that is, they were actually paid for all responses but only a few knew that. However we had a rule that allowed only one career member to be an officer and another rule that said they could not act in that capacity while at work, but then and here is the confusing part, if there was no officer they were considered acting lieutenants. So the Captain who was my first training officer, was also a career FF. As a Captain he wore red gear, however at work he wore black gear because he was no longer a Captain, but then on most calls that same Captain was an Acting Lieutenant. How confusing do you think that was for a new guy to understand?
Our department was very proud of the Truck and many members considered us a Truck company that also had engines. We went to a call once for multiple cars on fire next to a house, we took the truck as it was in another district. This fire was pretty much all engine work as there was no extension to the house. We got there second and grabbed the second handline that the Engine driver had flaked out. The second Engine had long stretch from the nearest hydrant. When all was said and done and it was time to pack up the hose, my Captain told me and another junior guy to get up on the hosebed and help the Engine crew. A senior man on our crew had words with the Captain ON SCENE about having us do engine work. Not exactly a paragon of brotherhood.
One factor I think has a great deal to do with this however is that familiarity breeds contempt. Distance is a great benefit to brotherhood sometimes. In my 13 years as a volunteer I met more firefighters from out of town (or even ou of state), both career and volunteer, that treated me as a brother than I can count. For the most part we were able to treat each other as equals becasue we did not know each other. Some I took classes with and others I stood next to at funerals, but many I saw over and over again and we always greeted each other as friends. I remember stopping by a career house to meet a friend who worked there after a funeral we had both been at. His officer found out I was a volunteer and thanked me several times for coming to a career funeral in the middle of the week. I don't think I did anything special but it was interesting to see his reaction. When I got back to my own station that night I was criticisized by one of our members for going to the funeral because he knew for a fact that everyone just goes to those to drink beer.
There are definately times when I felt like a brother and times when I felt like an outsider in my own station. That loss of brotherhood was one of the main factors in my leaving.

Sadly we end up enforcing this lack of brotherhood ourselves. It starts innocently enough with some good natured rivalry between companies that ends up leading to almsot a breakdown of communications. We set up rules that are designed to make us take sides.
Here are a couple of examples. In my old department that was combination when I joined, the career FF's were still allowed to be active Volunteers on their time off, well er sort of that is, they were actually paid for all responses but only a few knew that. However we had a rule that allowed only one career member to be an officer and another rule that said they could not act in that capacity while at work, but then and here is the confusing part, if there was no officer they were considered acting lieutenants. So the Captain who was my first training officer, was also a career FF. As a Captain he wore red gear, however at work he wore black gear because he was no longer a Captain, but then on most calls that same Captain was an Acting Lieutenant. How confusing do you think that was for a new guy to understand?
Our department was very proud of the Truck and many members considered us a Truck company that also had engines. We went to a call once for multiple cars on fire next to a house, we took the truck as it was in another district. This fire was pretty much all engine work as there was no extension to the house. We got there second and grabbed the second handline that the Engine driver had flaked out. The second Engine had long stretch from the nearest hydrant. When all was said and done and it was time to pack up the hose, my Captain told me and another junior guy to get up on the hosebed and help the Engine crew. A senior man on our crew had words with the Captain ON SCENE about having us do engine work. Not exactly a paragon of brotherhood.
One factor I think has a great deal to do with this however is that familiarity breeds contempt. Distance is a great benefit to brotherhood sometimes. In my 13 years as a volunteer I met more firefighters from out of town (or even ou of state), both career and volunteer, that treated me as a brother than I can count. For the most part we were able to treat each other as equals becasue we did not know each other. Some I took classes with and others I stood next to at funerals, but many I saw over and over again and we always greeted each other as friends. I remember stopping by a career house to meet a friend who worked there after a funeral we had both been at. His officer found out I was a volunteer and thanked me several times for coming to a career funeral in the middle of the week. I don't think I did anything special but it was interesting to see his reaction. When I got back to my own station that night I was criticisized by one of our members for going to the funeral because he knew for a fact that everyone just goes to those to drink beer.
There are definately times when I felt like a brother and times when I felt like an outsider in my own station. That loss of brotherhood was one of the main factors in my leaving.

While I am not making excuses for his actions, I do know that in the 80's & 90's in more than 1 Westchester combo dept. that only staffed "paid drivers" if the "paid man" ever left the pump panel, he got put on dept charges. In otherwords, if he arrived at a fire and the volunteers had yet to arrive and he stretched the line past the front door, he was yelled at because "only the volunters are allowed to do it". I saw this on more than one occassion and I know of it in more than one dept.
Once that s*** developed, I'm not surprised the "union" mic stuff came next.

This is my opinion and how I look at it. I'm sorry if I offend anyone.
Unfortunately unless you call a bunch of two faced and/or backstabbing babies and/or useless social clubbers a brother, the brotherhood is stronger then ever. In my opinion, to be considered a "brother" in the Fire Department, you would actually have to be a firefighter, one who has fought a fire or has been of use at a fire. A "good firefighter" who can tell you good story about a job at the kitchen table. Don't get me wrong, I am extremely proud of where I come from. I believe we run one of the most professional organizations around. BUT, I do come from 20/80 firehouse. 20% of us put our whole life into it and 80% are here for the food, funny drinks, and parades. I often find myself listening to real estate competition and stay at home dad stories. It is very rare I use the term brother with anyone. Not even a "thanks, brother". Lack of fires keep social clubbers around and do not interest gung-ho guys to stay active or join, the guys I would probably end up calling a brother.
When I think of "brotherhood" I think firemen who cook together, clean together, train together, go on runs together, and come home together. Even outside the firehouse these men are together.
No offence but I don't put an ounce of trust into the 12%'er just getting by who comes around for his 3 free meals a month and 3 nights out on the town with the boys a year. How does anyone of this description make up a "brotherhood"? Or at least a true "Fire service brotherhood"?
Again, my opinion. What brotherhood?

Good topic.
For many of us that have been around awhile it does seem as though Brotherhood in the fire service is dying, because by and large it is. There are a number of specific reasons why this is so, but all share one thing in common, a change in society to one which is far more self serving and filled with a sense of entitlement. Almost every TV show, pop song, movie or other pop culture medium instills the virtue of me me me instead of us us us. It's hard to reach through to someone that has been brought up on a steady diet of: success is measured in the number of thing I have and I must do whatever it takes to get them because I'm entitled to them. There's no room left for us, in fact there is no us in that equation, because it's all about me and what I deserve. And the sad fact is we have all contributed to this change to a greater or lesser degree, not out of malice or greed, but simply because we too succumbed to that constant barrage. To me the slow loss of Brotherhood is ultimately our own fault because we did nothing to stop it. Remember new members only know what they come into when it comes to the culture, camaraderie and tradition of our departments. They can only erode the bonds of Brotherhood within our organizations if we allow that erosion to take place or worse cause it ourselves by our actions (or inaction), even if unintentional.
Now at the risk of offending I feel I must touch on an 800 pound gorilla in the room. In my experience if there is one area in which Brotherhood has taken it's greatest hit overall, it is in the relationship between career and volunteer. Years ago many career firefighters were active and in fact vital members of volunteer departments where they lived and worked. In my City it was a common sight to see a career member working alongside a volunteer, both in the VFD gear since both were members. For reasons stemming from legal constraints and politics to stubbornness and an inability to adapt to change this has waned over the years and now much of our service is plagued by infighting and outright animosity. We ourselves have driven a wedge into the very heart of the notion of Brotherhood because we ourselves are at odds. New members come into this environment and are told the grand tales of Brotherhood among all FFs, only to learn that the words and the reality don't quite mesh many times. And this disparity then undermines the whole principle. It becomes a case of actions speaking louder than words.
In the end Brotherhood will only die if we allow it to. How we act and react, how we conduct ourselves on scene and off and how well we practice what we preach will ultimately decide the future of our Brotherhood...the choice and the future are ours to make.
Stay Safe