M' Ave

Wow! Considering the fact that 252 had water out the windows and the fire knocked down within a couple of minutes of arrival, it appears that your criticism is fairly harsh and uncalled for. It appears that 252 took the hydrant that was closest to the fire building, I don't see another hydrant on the block had they passed up the one that they hooked up to. I didn't see any truckies running, it did appear that a couple of firefighters were jogging toward 252's rig (probably firefighters from the 2nd due engine coming to assist with stretching the first line). I agree that reckless running at a fire scene could cause a slip / fall incident, but there does need to be an accelerated (albeit controlled) level of movement by responding personnel due to the rapidity of fire growth coupled with the dangers of smoke, heat and toxic gases on exposed victims as well as firefighters who are operating in the fire area as well as above it.
To the Firefighters who operated at this incident, a job well done.

95 footers in the city are, (Off the top of my head) 9,12,14,44,51,58,107(presently operating 75 foot spare, 95 footer was wrecked in 09),117,119,121,152,161,163,172.

I was a real Bloomberg supporter for years. I though, "Here's a driven, self-made man who can run this town. He's not a politician, he's a worker. He's above politics and nonsense. HOWEVER, now I see that he's just plain above everyone. He does have the financial know how to keep the city going through this great recession, however he's a little too far removed from the lives a actual New Yorkers to keep me feeling positive about his time as mayor. He's gunned for the FDNY every year since 2008 and with no good reason. WE'RE CHEAP! We have a fairly high Fireman to Civilian ratio and we're a great tool box for a big city. You can't buy a better insurance policy for this kinda dough.
Stop cutting us off at the knees

He's correct, in so far as trying not to take a hydrant before the fire building. However, this is more of a preferential move rather than rule of law. It's one more step, having to stretch around the rig and towards the fire building. However, this building was pretty close to the corner and it looks like the next hydrant was across the perpendicular cross street. You're better off stretching around the rig than trying to stretch a line across a two way street and an intersection.
If this were a building or area that guys responded to a lot, the chauffeur might know to respond up the block from the other direction. However, we so many streets and hydrants, it's unlikely that you'll have the luxury of that knowledge. Who know's, might be a detailed ECC from another borough, or maybe that was typically that engines 2nd due area.
All in all, it does look like the job went well in a pretty text book fashion. Those dopes running looked a little silly, but the engine was bringing the line in in a steady professional manner. This was a bread and butter kinda fire. It was already vented, you didn't have to go hunting for the seat and the door couldn't have taken too long to force. The roof was laddered within a minute of the trucks arrival. There was water on the fire and the main body of fire was knocked down in under 3 minutes. I'm sure that there were 2 roof-men on the roof and at least one O/V had gotten up there. With a top floor fire in a building like this, the second due truck woulda sent a couple of guys to start checking the top floors of the adjoining buildings.

He's correct, in so far as trying not to take a hydrant before the fire building. However, this is more of a preferential move rather than rule of law. It's one more step, having to stretch around the rig and towards the fire building. However, this building was pretty close to the corner and it looks like the next hydrant was across the perpendicular cross street. You're better off stretching around the rig than trying to stretch a line across a two way street and an intersection.
If this were a building or area that guys responded to a lot, the chauffeur might know to respond up the block from the other direction. However, we so many streets and hydrants, it's unlikely that you'll have the luxury of that knowledge. Who know's, might be a detailed ECC from another borough, or maybe that was typically that engines 2nd due area.
All in all, it does look like the job went well in a pretty text book fashion. Those dopes running looked a little silly, but the engine was bringing the line in in a steady professional manner. This was a bread and butter kinda fire. It was already vented, you didn't have to go hunting for the seat and the door couldn't have taken too long to force. The roof was laddered within a minute of the trucks arrival. There was water on the fire and the main body of fire was knocked down in under 3 minutes. I'm sure that there were 2 roof-men on the roof and at least one O/V had gotten up there. With a top floor fire in a building like this, the second due truck woulda sent a couple of guys to start checking the top floors of the adjoining buildings.

He's correct, in so far as trying not to take a hydrant before the fire building. However, this is more of a preferential move rather than rule of law. It's one more step, having to stretch around the rig and towards the fire building. However, this building was pretty close to the corner and it looks like the next hydrant was across the perpendicular cross street. You're better off stretching around the rig than trying to stretch a line across a two way street and an intersection.
If this were a building or area that guys responded to a lot, the chauffeur might know to respond up the block from the other direction. However, we so many streets and hydrants, it's unlikely that you'll have the luxury of that knowledge. Who know's, might be a detailed ECC from another borough, or maybe that was typically that engines 2nd due area.
All in all, it does look like the job went well in a pretty text book fashion. Those dopes running looked a little silly, but the engine was bringing the line in in a steady professional manner. This was a bread and butter kinda fire. It was already vented, you didn't have to go hunting for the seat and the door couldn't have taken too long to force. The roof was laddered within a minute of the trucks arrival. There was water on the fire and the main body of fire was knocked down in under 3 minutes. I'm sure that there were 2 roof-men on the roof and at least one O/V had gotten up there. With a top floor fire in a building like this, the second due truck woulda sent a couple of guys to start checking the top floors of the adjoining buildings.

SOP is for the engine to stop with the back of the rig parallel to the entrance to the fire building, the men then stretch 1 3/4" or 2 1/2" into the building depending on the size and nature of the fire. The chauffeur then drives to the hydrant and connects or if this is not possible (because a truck blocked him out) he can be supplied or stretch 3 1/2" back to a previous hydrant. FDNY uses dead lays, nothing is preconnected, it is up to the control man to determine how much hose is needed, pull it, break the line, give it to the chauffeur and provide the chauffeur with the details of the stretch. The high rise packs are for use in high rise buildings with standpipe systems. These standpipe systems are supplied by either a gravity tank on the roof or a main fed pump, all of these systems can also be supplemented by an engine streching 3 1/2" hose to the siamese connection.

The control man, while not the most glamorous, is the most important position in the engine. When the nozzle-man, Back-up and doorman(no longer) run off with their lengths, the control man continues to pull hose until enough has been pulled to leave a length for the fire floor. This must be done quickly while counting the number of lengths as they come off. One must estimate how many lengths are needed to get from the outlet to the interior stairs, then figure out how many floors they are taking the line up. Then, are they stretching in the well if the building has one? Once enough has been pulled (you have to figure this out, odds are the nozzle team isn't going to tell you when they're in place, they have enough to do) break the line off from the bed and give it to the chauffeur, telling him how many lengths you have out. Hopefully he's had enough time to get on a hydrant and is ready to go.
Estimating the correct number of lengths is essential to being able to swiftly perform the rest of your Control tasks. Flake out the line and chase the water up, pulling out kinks and flaking it out. If you have too much hose pulled, you're going to have a hard time will all the spaghetti in a tight tenement hallway. Of course, this is better than having too little....obviously stretching short is pretty much the worst thing ever.
The absence of a door man makes double work for the back-up man and the control man. One can no longer take up a good position at a doorway or turn in the hall to help advance the line. The two positions behind the nozzle must jump around a lot to insure that they line can advance. Once advancing steadily, the back-up is no longer free to leave the nozzleman, so this leaves the control man humping a lot of hose.
Hopefully the normally assigned second due engine isn't on another box, or you're looking at a bit more time operating that line alone! It doesn't take much more than one other box out in the area to delay incoming companies by several extra minutes. LONG extra minutes.

I'll throw a few random comments in to get things going, and I'll second the request to keep it civil:
1. Freedom to associate also implies freedom NOT to associate; I really don't like the idea of a closed shop.
2. The article mentions forbidding vollies from responding in the hours immediately before a shift. Excuse me, I'm an adult. I don't need anyone telling me what I can and can't do in my off hours; it's your responsibility to see you show up at your job - any job - fit, sober, rested, and ready for work.
3. I can absolutely see where the union is coming from. If I was a career firefighter and union member, I would still volunteer - but I wouldn't do it in a combo department with union firefighters. That's MY choice - quite apart from union rules, I'd consider it professional courtesy.
4. Maybe the British model provides an answer. They don't have pure vollies, they only have 'retained' - a bit like paid per call. They're welcome to join the union, and many do; contracts may only affect career guys & girls, but there's a whole raft of other issues - health, safety, legal, disciplinary - that affect all firefighters, paid or otherwise. So, should vollies be able to join the union?

the engine is a 4 man engine and we catch a fair share of our work in the projects and have long stretches in large H type buildings. we have been doing these stretches with 4 men for years and everytime you get pissed because the stretch always seems to get caught up or kinked somewhere. the one thing that has to be done now is that truckies are going to have to stop walking over and past a kinked line or caught up lines. we all have a job to do but passing a f'd line is ridiclous and will get soemone hurt. also second due engine is going to have to start helping more with stretches right away and stop thinking about maybe stretching that 2nd line. the attack line with proper water save the most lives.

I "love" this line:
How about: "No other department in the country deals with the incredible number of high-rise buildings in such a concentrated area; therefore necessitating the need for the original agreement to staff as many engine companies with 5 firefighters IN THE FIRST PLACE DUH...."

Nothing against the hard work of the moderators (particularly in this case FDNY 10-75) But this section is hurting the quality of EMTBravo.
I enjoy seeing what depts are getting. but this is just filler. This morning 80% of the recent board is about rigs being delivered or that might be put out to bid. With half the info either unknown or TBD.
Meanwhile it replaced, a LODD thread, Chains, Grants and other great threads.
If posters have real info on a new rig great, lets see. But this is just filler and is taking away from what makes EMTbravo great.
Rant over.

Yes, FEMA Aid can be requested. Lets take New Jersey as an example...
Full Article

Well M'ave, I am in agreement with most of your posts, but this time we'll have to agree to disagree. I still think there is a time and place for onspots. Just a tool in the toolbox but I don't think they will match The Detroit Door Opener.
Now that I moved to Virginia, all I hear is "we don't get snow down here." This year we had 2@4" and 1@8" and the world shut sown for a week. I offered to my OTJ sons that I'd come to the firehouse and show them how to put chains on. They don't even own chains. And putting plows on garbage trucks is unheard of. Snow removal here is "wait a week or two."

So there you go, by my extremely precise guestimated perception statistics a generous 30% of the calls are accurately typed and get the paramedics they need. The system is toast and I'm sure M'ave can attest to all the improvements UCT has made. The future sure looks rosy for NYC.

Tour is night tour 6:00PM to 9:00AM 15 hours or 9:00AM to 6:00PM Day tour 9 hours, if a member taps out then a member is pulled from nearest 5ff engine, if there are no more 5ff engines then nearest ladder will lose 5th ff, usually OV which is the outside vent man, responsible for ventilation from exterior usually opposite fire entrance like a fire escape window or off ladder. OV conducts searches and other duties. Also depending on what type of ladder apparatus he is working in the OV position does change. Tower Ladder OV usually in bucket, Tillerman is usually OV in Tiller Apparatus.

Because its not a fire based EMS system. Its a fire dept run EMS system. Bellow COD Killduff, we're as separate from Fire as we are from PD. Hell asside from the buried CFR frequency we can't hear what's going on with FD, but I have every PD frequency except CityWide2. 14 years later its still a merger in progress.
A lot of factors combined to kill the 12 hours. Rather than being optional or only affecting some units it was imposed across the entire division. Many people have set up their whole life around a certain schedule and now with only a few weeks notice they were expected to change. So from the outset there was a lot of animosity and resistance. One of the upsides was built in OT to increase our annual hours worked to match Fire and PD. A few chiefs took it upon themselves to do everything in their power to curtail this OT and in the process took away another perk to the program, consistent schedule and regular partner. In the end, the members came to generally support it but so much damage was done by management that the members torpedoed it by banging in sick (the typical EMS response when angry).
Quite a few medics have gone over. We've even lost a couple Lts to the fire side. In the last fire class there were two guys that finished 9 months of medic basic on Friday and reported to the fire academy on Monday. For a little while there was a back and forth about staffing the EMS rooms on the 343 and Firefighter II and Fire had more than enough medics with NYC REMAC cards to put a medic on the boats right then.
Too many ALS units and not enough specificity in call triaging. M'Ave what percent of your calls do the medics keep you around to help? I figure half of the time its a real medical emergency I need the CFR to stick around and maybe you can double that for the calls that should get ALS and a CFR assigned. Then there's the litany of calls where CFRs should be assigned but aren't because the moon is 3/4's and its an even day, now all my cardiac jobs magically become diff breathers.

I think the birds you overheard are nothing more than rumors.
The advantage is huge due to the promotional nature the city is able to hire the entire list prior to those that are on the open list. This equates to someone on the promotional list with a 70 being hired before the 100s on the open list. Also prior to switching to the CPAT you could fail 2 stations on the agility and still have a technically passing grade. While this was the case for the open exam few if any canidates were ever hired from the open exam that did not have a 100 on the physical. In my opinion it should have been pass/fail and failure of any of the stations should have resulted in disqualifications.

The O/v position is also know as the outside Vent Man. Usually this position is for the most senior guy in the truck. He is responsiable for VES (Vent Enter Search) from the outside. He will make his way to the fire floor via the fire escape, ariel ladder ot the bucket. He will ask permission to VES on the fire floor from the boss who is in the fire apartment. The reason for this is so it is in conjuction with the nozzle team. And so he doesnt vent too soon or too late. He will enter the fire apartment and conduct a search. His tools consist of a hook and a hailgan. If it is a tower ladder operation he is resonable for operation of the bucket from the controls in the bucket and the chauf on the turn table. If the job is in a high eise he is resonable for operating fireman service in the elevator and getting the members to the floor below. But there are some other circumstances in which operating at a high rise and the job is on a floor low enough to be reached by a portable or the areial ladder or bucket he will operate how he would at a tenament or brownstone. hope this helps
This is coming from an engine man any truckies can add if i missed anything.
ahh you all beat me

Just got word from our union that our department secured a safer grant for our laid off members. Congratulations! Kudos to all the people who worked so hard on the grant.

Another well written article that will fall on the deaf ears of the few. The average citizen, of all races and backgrounds, is not in favor of this ruling. Let merit prevail! I'm so sick of the whining and complaining when things aren't just handed to you in this city. Last week I was sickened watching the NY City Council hearing on the snow storm. Councilmembers wanted to know why Public Housing wasn't adequately plowed and shoveled...uh, to the residents: You get what you (don't)pay for. Other council members wanted to know why people in the "Welfare to Work" program weren't getting paid by sanitation when they showed up to shovel. Uh....'cause you're already getting public assistance and shoveling a little snow for it isn't the worst thing ever. Along the same lines, I love how the FDNY should mirror the population that it serves, like it has some obligation to offer city residents jobs. What? I always thought it was to hire the best from the candidate pool and provide the best possible service. Where would I get a crazy idea like that!?
Guess what!? Life isn't fair. You get an equal shot, a fair written exam. Actually, it's more than fair, it's a veritable bunt! However, someone loses! That's that. In fact, most people lose and you can't please everyone. End of story.
The Judge is still holding onto the final decision, impeding the city's ability to appeal. They will as soon as they have the ability.
***Crack*** There goes my soap box! Thanks for listening, rant over.

Another well written article that will fall on the deaf ears of the few. The average citizen, of all races and backgrounds, is not in favor of this ruling. Let merit prevail! I'm so sick of the whining and complaining when things aren't just handed to you in this city. Last week I was sickened watching the NY City Council hearing on the snow storm. Councilmembers wanted to know why Public Housing wasn't adequately plowed and shoveled...uh, to the residents: You get what you (don't)pay for. Other council members wanted to know why people in the "Welfare to Work" program weren't getting paid by sanitation when they showed up to shovel. Uh....'cause you're already getting public assistance and shoveling a little snow for it isn't the worst thing ever. Along the same lines, I love how the FDNY should mirror the population that it serves, like it has some obligation to offer city residents jobs. What? I always thought it was to hire the best from the candidate pool and provide the best possible service. Where would I get a crazy idea like that!?
Guess what!? Life isn't fair. You get an equal shot, a fair written exam. Actually, it's more than fair, it's a veritable bunt! However, someone loses! That's that. In fact, most people lose and you can't please everyone. End of story.
The Judge is still holding onto the final decision, impeding the city's ability to appeal. They will as soon as they have the ability.
***Crack*** There goes my soap box! Thanks for listening, rant over.

You are correct. If you do not go home at the end of the shift, the other 9 general orders are meaningless.

Another well written article that will fall on the deaf ears of the few. The average citizen, of all races and backgrounds, is not in favor of this ruling. Let merit prevail! I'm so sick of the whining and complaining when things aren't just handed to you in this city. Last week I was sickened watching the NY City Council hearing on the snow storm. Councilmembers wanted to know why Public Housing wasn't adequately plowed and shoveled...uh, to the residents: You get what you (don't)pay for. Other council members wanted to know why people in the "Welfare to Work" program weren't getting paid by sanitation when they showed up to shovel. Uh....'cause you're already getting public assistance and shoveling a little snow for it isn't the worst thing ever. Along the same lines, I love how the FDNY should mirror the population that it serves, like it has some obligation to offer city residents jobs. What? I always thought it was to hire the best from the candidate pool and provide the best possible service. Where would I get a crazy idea like that!?
Guess what!? Life isn't fair. You get an equal shot, a fair written exam. Actually, it's more than fair, it's a veritable bunt! However, someone loses! That's that. In fact, most people lose and you can't please everyone. End of story.
The Judge is still holding onto the final decision, impeding the city's ability to appeal. They will as soon as they have the ability.
***Crack*** There goes my soap box! Thanks for listening, rant over.

Another well written article that will fall on the deaf ears of the few. The average citizen, of all races and backgrounds, is not in favor of this ruling. Let merit prevail! I'm so sick of the whining and complaining when things aren't just handed to you in this city. Last week I was sickened watching the NY City Council hearing on the snow storm. Councilmembers wanted to know why Public Housing wasn't adequately plowed and shoveled...uh, to the residents: You get what you (don't)pay for. Other council members wanted to know why people in the "Welfare to Work" program weren't getting paid by sanitation when they showed up to shovel. Uh....'cause you're already getting public assistance and shoveling a little snow for it isn't the worst thing ever. Along the same lines, I love how the FDNY should mirror the population that it serves, like it has some obligation to offer city residents jobs. What? I always thought it was to hire the best from the candidate pool and provide the best possible service. Where would I get a crazy idea like that!?
Guess what!? Life isn't fair. You get an equal shot, a fair written exam. Actually, it's more than fair, it's a veritable bunt! However, someone loses! That's that. In fact, most people lose and you can't please everyone. End of story.
The Judge is still holding onto the final decision, impeding the city's ability to appeal. They will as soon as they have the ability.
***Crack*** There goes my soap box! Thanks for listening, rant over.