Just a guy

You are absolutely right in that the blame starts with the parents or lack there of. But seeings how you can't change what has happened in the past that got these kids where they are today, the only thing you can TRY to change is their future. Until they start making birth control mandatory (temporary sterilization if possible) for those on the Government's wellfair programs, the only thing that people can do is help change the direction the kids are heading. I am a little surprised that you being a police officer, wouldn't want to change these kids before you have to deal with them on a adult level with much more serious crimes. I know it takes a special type of person to take on that challenge and I know it is not for everyone, myself included, but someone has to do it.

Contrary to what people may think, it's not the job of the police to change people, thats the job of schools, councelors, families, and sometimes, institutions. What everyone here has to realize is that by the age of 12, a kid growing up in the ghetto already has a negative opinion of the police, they don't want to deal with us, never mind talk and open up to us.

We barely have time to eat dinner most nights, never mind sit and talk to people and try to figure them out and change their lives.

Do you know who we need to blame for these troubled 12 year old kids ?.. we need to blame fathers that abandon their families and abandon their girlfriends or their one night stands after getting them pregnant...and people that refuse to work because living off the government dole is easier...

I refuse to take responsibility because I am not part of the problem, my tax money that is taken from my check every 2 weeks is part of the solution.

I would love to volunteer my time but I can't because I am busy working my A job and my B job so I can pay my ever increasing property taxes so the government can pay for social welfare programs for these kids and their families, programs that I or my kids will never benefit from even though I FUND THEM.

The kids' 12. He'll loop through the system again, and what will be the benefit? He'll come out more of a criminal then before.

The false alarm issues can get someone killed in a variety of ways, and needs to be stopped.

However, why not try to point these kids in the right direction, if applicable? Have them pack hose, mow the lawns at the firehouse and do janitorial duties, get if they prove themselves, get them to join the explorer program.

I think there needs to be more social responsibilty instead of ignoring these kids and the impact they can have if allowed to go untreated. (burden on law enforcement, courts, corrections over their lifespan). Most people on this forum are lucky to have been born into a good part of society and have, for the most part, had a upbringing where someone cared about them. These kid's don't have that. Nobody ever cared about them. They grew up in poverty and violence. They know that trouble brings them status, attention.

Again, this kid is 12. It's not too late.

Seth, I respect your opinion but I can't agree.

We have no clue why this kid is at this facility in the first place, it could be for any number of crimes... I'm pretty sure that this is the kind of kid that you don't want hanging around the fire house and I could bet you apples to oranges that this kid would rather start fires rather than help put them out.

As far as social responsibility goes, I'm a cop, my job is to hold people responsible when they break the law and thats what I do and thats what happened to this kid, he is being held responsible for what he did.

As far as the whole " poor, nobody cares about them, poverty and violence" argument, enough of my paycheck goes to social welfare and programs to help these kids and their families.. their situation is not my fault.... You have to draw the line somewhere

These are a great set of pictures, thank you for sharing them

I don't care if this kid is there court ordered, or becuase he didn't listen to his parents and was a pain in the a** or because his mommy left him on a doorstep..... we are a society of laws and with breaking the law comes the consequences.

I'm sure the local FD has to go there many times because some deviant feels like pulling the alarm, God forbid there is an accident and a member is injured or killed going to one of these false alarms, or if there is an actual working job somewhere else in the district and the units are tied up at this place.

Will the charge stay a felony ? No, this is westchester county, very few crimes actually stay as charged.

I'm very glad to hear that once they started arresting people for pulling false alarms, the incidents of this happening has dropped.

As far as the courts being overwhelmed with this, this matter will be dealt with in family court ( which is a joke anyway) but even so, I would rather family court be dealing with juvenile crime like this rather than dealing with silly baby mamma drama orders of protection and nonsense like that.

Anyone who has been in Law Enforcement long enough knows not to take anything that you "Hear" as truth until you can verify it yourself and even then you should still doubt it a bit.

Referring to Rob Astorino as the "boss" of the county police just because he is the county exec. would be like me saying that phil amicone is my boss just because he is the mayor of yonkers - It wouldn't make sense.

I wouldn't mind paying extra taxes if it meant that my brothers and sisters in the county police or any police department for that matter could have the newest and the best equipment on the market.

As I said in my prior post, with all the money that this county spends on social welfare, nobody should have ANYTHING bad to say about the county cops getting new cars with a paint job that may cost a little more per car.

In many municipalities, vehicles are purchased through the Capital Improvement Plan which is voted on by the legislative body at least a year in advance so the cars keep coming in when you need them. I remember 7 or 8 years ago when yonkers didn't vote on a CIP and instead of having a fleet or regular cars and a fleet of spares, we had half a fleet of spares, thats is, we had no cars, the DPW guys tried their best to keep us at the bare minimum but there is only so much you can do with a car that is a few years old and runs 24/7 up and down the hills of yonkers.

Thank God the county PD has kept up their fleet and has new cars coming in.. those guys and gals put a hell of a lot of miles on those cars and at times drive at some pretty high speeds so they need and deserve the best no matter what the cost !!

I'm usually the first one to associate posts with politics but this time I have to throw a flag on the play. To think that Rob astorino has any say with the color scheme on the county police cars is pure nonsense.

I was involved in a pursuit that the county PD had in Yonkers the other night and that was the first time I had seen the new colors and after ribbing a county cop I knew about them converting to the colors of the new york mets ( which I totally agree with) I told those guys that I liked the new colors. The colors look sharp and professional and they stand out. This is one topic that politics can 100% be left out of. The amount of money spent on the new colors is negligible compared to what the county spends on welfare, section 8, etc.... I would rather see the money go to the PD all day !!!!

Mr. Fiorino was going about his lawful business, carrying openly, when the Sgt. initiated an encounter with him. The open carry was clearly the only issue; he wasn't suspected of any crime. Mr. Fiorino declared at the very outset that he was lawfully carrying and offered to show his permit. This was refused and he was ordered to kneel in the dirt. Things went downhill from there.

As I said to lad12derff, if the 'price' you pay for exercising your right to open carry is to be required to kneel in the dirt on a semi-regular basis, then the right becomes entirely theoretical; and in my view the legality of those orders becomes dubious to say the least.

Posts I've read in other fora, describing encounters in other states, or even other parts of PA, where open carry is legal, describe encounters that are polite, of the 'keep your hands where I can see them while I check your permit' variety, and in a couple of minutes it's 'have a nice day'. If the Philly Sgt. had conducted himself in the same manner we wouldn't be having this conversation.

*edit* I'll add a thought; I appreciate that if the Philly Sgt. had conducted himself in the 'polite' manner with the wrong guy, he might be dead. It's difficult. How to set the balance right? Dead cops are a bad thing. Hassling legal gun owner so much they give up is a bad thing; it makes an a** of the open carry law. What to do? I DO see both sides. But - correct me if I'm wrong - very few bad guys open carry. And it was obvious as soon as this guy opened his mouth that he was intelligent and articulate. The guys in Seattle sounded like, and were, gang members. This guy didn't. He sounded like a geek. He sounded a bit of a smartass, but that ain't a crime.

Mike

You say this guy fiorino sounded like a geek , Is a geek any less capable of killing a cop ?

You say that other examples of people being stopped for open carry in other parts of PA have been "polite"... did you ever think that there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between getting stopped in northwest pebnnsylvania where it is very common to carry a weapon legally as opposed to being stopped in the ghettto of philly where it is very common for people to carry a wepon illegally.

Unless you have encountered an armed suspect on the street then you can't say how you would feel or how another cop should feel or act. In my 13 years on the job I have been forced to draw my weapon and disarm many people on the street, once even chasing a male with a handgun while I was off duty... and at no time was I nice about it and if people take issue with that I could honestly care less because at the end of the day I got the job done and I and my partners went home at the end of the tour.

You point out that he told the sergeant that he had a permit and was carrying legally... you do realize that people lie to us pretty often right ? I stopped a male in downtown yonkers one night that had a handgun in his waistband who told me the gun was legal in south carolina and after disarming him at gunpoint and informing him that his weapon was not legal in NY, it turned out that he lied to me and that his weapon was not even registered in S.C. (not that I evan began to believe him anyway).

The bottom line is that police work is not always pretty, it's not always like the movies or like it is on cops, people fight, people run, people resist arrest and people question EVERYTHING WE DO.

You took this small clip and ran with the whole " some cops don't respect the courtesy campaigns " or whatever you said and that is just complete nonsense.

Perfect end to the pursuit, no cops hurt and one murder suspect dead... thats a good day in my book

Is this chief kidding with this nonsense ? These are pice of s*** MS-13 gang members who were threatening to assault the officers, etc... they deserved a lot more than a few f*** you's. This is another example of political correctness gone awry. Chief Bratton said a few weeks ago that he firmly believes that the number of officer related deaths are up this year because cops are weary about people with cameras and are holding back during their encounters with the public and are therefore giving up the upper hand. In this case you have cops who did the right thing and refused to give up the upper hand and now they get called to the carpet for it. What a joke.

This is another example of a boss forgetting where he came from

I didn't see an instance where the officer could have used deadly physical force but what I did see is an officer that was afraid to use the amount of force necessary to put down the resistance of the suspect due to the presence of a camera in the car. The taser didn't work and this guy took a fighting stance with the officer after the officer told him to put his hands behind his back, at that point the male was violently resisting arrest. The officer should have used his baton at this point but I wasn't there and can't judge from the video how this should have been handled.

The one thing I can tell you for sure is that when the perp hit the truck, that should have been lights out for the suspect, DOA now that would have been justice !

Clearly I am in the minority here but I happen to be a huge fan of due process. I don't care how many hoops you have to jump through, if the guy is actually committing a crime and you are any good at doing your job as a LEO then you should have no problem finding evidence for a warrant or to make an arrest. If you are grasping at straws or having trouble nailing the bad guy well then maybe you should try and get better at your job or maybe, just maybe they weren't doing anything illegal in the first place....

(Note this is a general statement not aimed at any one person , merely at the complaints, Oh well its hard for me to lock up the bad guys because its so damn hard to prove they are doing anything wrong)

I'm going to write off the infamatory nature of this post to the fact that you are young and in not in any way involved in law enforcement and therefore have no clue how Law Enforcement works or better yet how to make a case against someone.

I could deduce by the fact that you say you live in Westchester and that you are a volunteer that you live in a relatively low crime area due to the fact that there are no volunteer agencies in any of the higher crime areas of Westchester. With this in mind you are more than likely one of those people I spoke about in my previous post who proclaim that they are supporters of due process, until the problem is in your neighborhood or better yet, next to your house, then you want the police to go all out to solve the problem because it affects you.

I'm going to end my post with this, you posted "If you are grasping at straws or having trouble nailing the bad guy well then maybe you should try and get better at your job or maybe, just maybe they weren't doing anything illegal in the first place...."

Did you think before you posted this ?

Crime Cop, you're correct in what you say, and most cases are as clear-cut as you describe; I don't want my post to be misinterpreted as disagreeing with that. But as I said in my post, I think it's in the hard cases where things are less clear-cut than the neighbourhood crack house that things will get legally sticky.

(I'm a Brit by birth, and the UK legal system has no concept whatever of 'fruit of the poisonous tree'; you can be convicted on the basis of ANY evidence there, no matter how many laws were broken in getting it - so it's an issue I take some interest in)

Mike

I understand where you are coming from. I take pride in my work and pride in our justice system no matter how silly it can be at times.

Although I become frustrated with all of the hoops we have to jump through to get search warrants etc... I never want to see the law circumvented just to make an arrest.

There are too many restrictions put on law enforcement and every time there is a new more restrictive ruling we have to adjust so this ruling is a breath of fresh air. People really have no clue what we have to go through to get our jobs done, we hit roadblocks and nonsense every step of the way and all we are trying to do is get the bad guy off the streets but in many cases we are the bad guy it seems.

For those of you that are concerned about the police having too much "power", this doesn't give us any more "power" than we already have.

When you are a cop that works in a busy area or in a special unit that deals with search warrants frequently, you know what the destruction of evidence sounds like as opposed to " putting up a shelf," and you know what people scurrying around in an apartment trying to hid or escape sounds like as ooposed to people getting off the couch to come open the door."

Let's try to keep this in perspective... we are talking about piece of s*** drug dealers here, the scum of the earth who ruin lives and communities, Who Cares what happens to them... when you live in a community that doesn't have the scourge of heavy drugs in it, it's easy to sit back and say " but we need to preserve their rights too."

If the apartment or the house next door to you had frequent visitors knocking on the door at all hours of the day and night or cars coming up comstantly and there were strange odors coming from the apartment, and you heard rumors that they were selling crack of heroin out of the apratment, the first thing you would do is call the police and ask them why they aren't doing anything about it and when you get the answer of " Our hands are tied and they have rights too," maybe you will rethink your position.

Or if your kids couldn't go to the park becuase the local dealer has taken up residence by the swingset to sell his drugs because the swing set has the best panoramic view to see if the cops are coming.

Or there were drive by's and gang fights on the corner or if your car or your house kept getting broken into becasue the crack heads are staying in your neighborhood becuase your local dealer has the best product.

I am a supporter of the constitution but I am also a supporter of Common Sense

EZ Pass is a different story. You can choose not to have EZ Pass, so if you're cheating on your wife on the other side of the bridge, she won't be able to use that information in divorce court. However, there is no option other than to drive (in most non-urban cases). P.S. I'm not married, so this example doesn't apply to me.

I don't buy the idea that "if you're not doing anything wrong, there's nothing to worry about". If my license plate data were grabbed by someone, maybe an unscrupulous cop or someone who was able to hack the database, they would be able to tell that my house was empty between 2 certain times every day or week and rob it.

As a nation, we were willing to give up a lot of freedom after 9/11 with the Patriot Acts (which should also be challenged for constitutionality). People are starting to realize that their liberties are being stripped from them by government and technology one by one and are fighting to get them back. Just this week, Texas has passed a law to make the "pat downs" of airline customers illegal. Good for them!

You can also choose not to drive a vehicle which would solve your whole problem, then you can pedal your way around or walk and not have to worry about the government or some "unscrupulous cop" robbing your house - which incidentally is one of the more outlandish ideas I have seen on here and a situation that I don't ever recall happening anywhere.

I would love to have things go back to the way they were on 9/10/01 or even on 9/11/01 at 7 am but there are certain people in the world that won't let that happen, look at the 2 terror related arrests in Queens just yesterday.

The patriot act has been challenged for constitutionality many times and has always passed muster, it is an essential part of our nations security.

If you actually read the articles about the texas bill which hasn't been passed yet, it makes touching the sexual organs of a person illegal, not pat downs of airline customers and when it's all said and done, an airport is a federal facility and federal law and federal requirements will trump any law made by the state that the airport is in.

As far as people "fighting" to get their rights back that have been "stripped" by the government, exactly what rights have been taken away because my life hasn't changed since 9/11 and I would wager to say that the majority of people except travelers would say the same thing. I really don't see a large nationwide movement of people "fighting" against the patriot act because deep down, people know and understand that it's in the best interest of the country.

And I will stand by my statement, If you live an unsullied life then you have nothing to fear from minimal government intrusion.

There are different models of LPR's that use different software. There are some LPR's that only scan plates and give you hits on active files, suspended reg, warrant hits on the R/O, etc...

There are some LPR's that can record plates and locations and send them to a database for later review. This is especially helpful at major crime scenes where in the past the cops would have to take EVERY plate in the area by hand and run them later one by one, now a plate reader equipped radio car can come by and drive the streets and record all the plates in the area for later investigation.

I took an auto crimes class in Albany a few years ago and there was a Rep from Elsag who gave us a presentation that said that the top of the line LPR can record plates and you can type the plate in and the computer will tell you when and where you last passed the plate and for those cops who work in the dessert or in remote areas, the computer will even give you the GPS coordinates of your last contact.

There is no expectation of privacy on a public highway? Excuse me? I for damn sure expect to have my privacy protected while traveling. The government has no right to know that I go to Hannaford shopping every Wednesday night. You may be willing to give up your privacy, but I certainly am not.

An automated system to run plates is one thing and I don't have a problem with that (although it does toss probable cause out the window). Storing the information is way, WAY over the line. It is not only unconstitutional but against everything this country has stood for for over 200 years.

There is nothing "Unconstitutional" about it and if this technology was unconstitutional it would have been sidelined long ago but it hasn't been because it is perfectly legal.

If you are so concerned about your privacy, don't contract with the state of NY to use their license plates on your vehicle and drive a schwinn or a huffy to the store so the government doesn't know.

As far as probable cause goes, the police have many ways to have proable cause but again if you live an unsullied life you have nothing to worry about regarding probable cause, privacy, etc....

My license plate data is stored in NYSPIN. You are correct. That simply tells them that I have a motor vehicle registered in the state. I also don't have an issue with the license plate readers getting the information from my plate and flagging me if I'm wanted. However, the problem I do have is storage of this information. If I pass a cop at the intersection of Main and Union and the reader says "yup, plate ABC123 is ok", that should be the end of it. I don't want these machines knowing that I went through Main and Market at 12:00 on 5/12/2011 three days later.

Smart phone tracking is different and so is facebook. If you choose to allow yourself to be tracked, so be it (and yes, I know it was recently found that some phones were being tracked without the user's knowledge and that is being or has been rectified). I don't want the government keeping a record of my daily travel habits simply because I own a car.

I don't get it... if you aren't doing anything wrong then who cares what the government knows ? If you live an unsullied life then you have nothing to fear from minimal government intrusion and thats what this is... minimal intrusion.

As many of the police officers on here have said already, you have no expectation of privacy when it comes to license plates and DMV information. From a license plate that I run on a traffic stop or as part of an investigation, I can get a name, address, warrants, parole info, drivers license info, past accidents that you have had and if there were injuries or if there were reports made, sex offender info, orders of protection, etc... so maybe 20 years ago it was just that you owned a car, now it's a whole lot more.

Where is the Journal News going ?

HOPEFULLY OUT OF BUISNESS FOR GOOD !!!!!

well there's something you don't see everyday ......

RIP Pretzel, Thank you for your dedication and service .. You found a lot of drugs and put a lot of bad guys in jail. My thoughts and prayers to the Langford Family

I seem to remember a mother and daughter with cerebral palsy in white plains committing suicide by this method back in october... of course I could be wrong

Since Officer Hess was not charged by the grand jury, he is not liable for any damages whether they be punative or compensatory. Officer Hess has been through enough stress but this federal civil trial will only add more stress. Even though he is not liable, these trials take a lot out of you.

I recently had to undergo a federal civil trial in foley square because a perp that got convicted of assaulting me and is currently serving 6 years in prison sued 6 of us for excessive force. After a week long trial I was found not guilty but it sucks because you are the defendant in federal court and thats a position no cop wants to be in.

Hold you head up P.O. Hess, you are a hero and you saved multiple lives that night and NOBODY can take that away from you.

When the trial starts I and I'm sure many Police Officers will male the trip to foley square to support officer hess and his family.

wow dude...wow...

again i ask - what if he is convicted?

will your response be "just because the federal government may convict someone doesn't mean they are guilty?"

maybe?...then that quote is possible for every individual convicted of a crime (irony: today westchester county awarded Jeff Deckovic $6.5 million for a wrongful conviction case)

take down the blue wall and think people, just think for God sakes!!

sometimes i read posts on here and wonder what planet this forum is from

" Take down the blue wall ? " Sometimes the blue wall is all we have because it seems that we have ZERO support from the communities we serve.

You ask what planet this forum is from ? The rest of us are from planet reality, how about you ?

dj henrys father is connected where ? Just because some hack civil rights leaders are leading himn around by the nose in no way makes him connected.

I applaud the PBA for giving this award to P.O. Hess.... he saved lives that night and is a hero.. END OF STORY

As far as the feds go, they are on a witch hunt in westchester county and will stop at nothing to hang a cop, even if it's under false pretenses... we all remember how the FBI agent that was investigating Det. Quinoy in Sleppy Hollow tampered with evidence to try to get a conviction.

But no matter what the feds say, it will not change the fact that PO Hess is the Pleasantville PBA's officer of the year !!!

It doesn't say much for the reporters who didn't check to see that the city doesn't exist and the mayors name is SHIRLEY U. JEST ...... "I am serious and don't call me shirley "