STAT213

There are plenty of good EMS systems out there. Boston, King county, la county, some of the counties around DC come to mind. Westchester is not a system. It's a patchwork of solutions to issues. Without leadership, it won't change. Because, quite frankly, the people don't care. They do not care what the ambulance has written on it. They want someone to show up, be nice to them, fix them and get them to a hospital. With a pillow and a blanket. Seriously, that came out in a study/survey in Syracuse.
So unless someone inside or outside the system will step up and begin to build solutions, y'all are stuck with what ya got.
Ever notice that those model systems have a tribute page on their website to the visionary that made it happen? That's not by accident. Step up and lead if you want it fixed. Take charge of the EMS council and push. Read some of the tributes to visionary leaders. They have words like relentless, tireless, pursuing, energetic in them. Again, for a reason.

Will it be available for any type of call needing the foam it carries, or just certain types of calls?

Will it be available for any type of call needing the foam it carries, or just certain types of calls?

I mean, really, who doesn't want bigger fire house?

Just reading this I am VERY glad that the tallest building in my town is four stories.
Whole different kind a firefighting.

Just reading this I am VERY glad that the tallest building in my town is four stories.
Whole different kind a firefighting.

Chief to Fire Alarm (at the scene of a working fire): Fire alarm, Car 1, gimme a second.
Fire alarm reply: Take all the time you need chief.

GBFD109, Thanks for taking the time to explain conditions, and the eloquence of your reply, especially in the face of a Monday morning QB questioning the amount of resources called.

GBFD109, Thanks for taking the time to explain conditions, and the eloquence of your reply, especially in the face of a Monday morning QB questioning the amount of resources called.

Not sure how consolidation fits into this discussion. Needing eight tankers is needing 8 tankers. True that a county department would (hopefully) allocate resources in a more even fashion so areas with the need for tankers would have them. But anyway...
For those of you not familiar with tanker operations, there is a formula that determines how many tankers you will need. For example, a 2000 gallon tanker driving a three mile loop can only supply 150 gallons per minute. Sooo, if they were flowing 1200 gallons a minute, they would need...8 tankers. Or if the three miles was over crappy roads, you just might need the 8 tankers to flow even less water. Having been a water supply officer on a similar fire, until all those tankers get in the right line, and into the flow, it seems like more, more, more is the answer.

Not sure how consolidation fits into this discussion. Needing eight tankers is needing 8 tankers. True that a county department would (hopefully) allocate resources in a more even fashion so areas with the need for tankers would have them. But anyway...
For those of you not familiar with tanker operations, there is a formula that determines how many tankers you will need. For example, a 2000 gallon tanker driving a three mile loop can only supply 150 gallons per minute. Sooo, if they were flowing 1200 gallons a minute, they would need...8 tankers. Or if the three miles was over crappy roads, you just might need the 8 tankers to flow even less water. Having been a water supply officer on a similar fire, until all those tankers get in the right line, and into the flow, it seems like more, more, more is the answer.

I know of a fire up here in NH where the fire chief decided it was a loser from the get go (and from what people on the scene told me, it was a reasonable call) and said we're done here, let it burn. Well, guess what happened....homeowner sued the town and WON, saying the FD had a duty that they did NOT fulfill. Sucks, but it is the world we live in.
The member from GBFD explained quite nicely why so many tankers were needed. Why all the grief?

I know of a fire up here in NH where the fire chief decided it was a loser from the get go (and from what people on the scene told me, it was a reasonable call) and said we're done here, let it burn. Well, guess what happened....homeowner sued the town and WON, saying the FD had a duty that they did NOT fulfill. Sucks, but it is the world we live in.
The member from GBFD explained quite nicely why so many tankers were needed. Why all the grief?

GBFD109, Thanks for taking the time to explain conditions, and the eloquence of your reply, especially in the face of a Monday morning QB questioning the amount of resources called.

GBFD109, Thanks for taking the time to explain conditions, and the eloquence of your reply, especially in the face of a Monday morning QB questioning the amount of resources called.

GBFD109, Thanks for taking the time to explain conditions, and the eloquence of your reply, especially in the face of a Monday morning QB questioning the amount of resources called.

GBFD109, Thanks for taking the time to explain conditions, and the eloquence of your reply, especially in the face of a Monday morning QB questioning the amount of resources called.

I belong to two of these kind of sites for the fire service. The other one is dead. Kaput.
They both got going around the same time, had their ups and downs and had their usual fights between members.
So, seeing as they both are trending down, I would guess that it is a waning of the popularity of forum based sites. Now that I think of it, a third site that I visit has a similar downturn. The implications of our jobs and postings on social media are also very valid. What we do off duty and on the web reflects on our departments, regardless if we put disclaimers up or not. That is the way of the world now.
I will say that the holiness on this site more so than the negativity is what turned me off the most. It frequently felt preachy. Anyway, that's my two cents and what comes to mind. I think the points raised above are also valid, so it's likely a whole bunch of different reasons for different folks.

Quite the variations and set up on that pump. 400' of 1 3/4 seems like a loooooonnnng stretch. PDP must be up there, depending on what that fog nozzle needs. Why not reduce friction loss by using a 100 2 1/2 leader line?
Anyway...
My engine in Derry, NH.
1000 gallon tank.
1000' of 4".
600 feet of flat loaded 2 1/2 with a wye at the end for our occasional long stretches.
100' 1 3/4 in a bundle with breakaway fog/smooth bore nozzle and a 50' donut roll. Called our high rise pack, used to attach to the of the 2 1/2 listed above.
200' 2 1/2 flat load off the rear with TFT fog nozzle.
200' 1 3/4 flat load off the rear with TFT fog nozzle.
Two 1 3/4 200' crosslays, one with solid bore, one with TFT fog nozzle.
200' 2 1/2 crosslay with TFT fog nozzle.
That's it folks. As with most places, our hose loads are revised like our SOGs, and can take a while to have change.
Nice thing about our lays is that they give us flexibility, and they are built around OUR buildings. There is ONE garden style apt that we can't hit with the 200' crosslay. Our building mix is mostly single or two family residential, and then a bunch of apartments.

Quite the variations and set up on that pump. 400' of 1 3/4 seems like a loooooonnnng stretch. PDP must be up there, depending on what that fog nozzle needs. Why not reduce friction loss by using a 100 2 1/2 leader line?
Anyway...
My engine in Derry, NH.
1000 gallon tank.
1000' of 4".
600 feet of flat loaded 2 1/2 with a wye at the end for our occasional long stretches.
100' 1 3/4 in a bundle with breakaway fog/smooth bore nozzle and a 50' donut roll. Called our high rise pack, used to attach to the of the 2 1/2 listed above.
200' 2 1/2 flat load off the rear with TFT fog nozzle.
200' 1 3/4 flat load off the rear with TFT fog nozzle.
Two 1 3/4 200' crosslays, one with solid bore, one with TFT fog nozzle.
200' 2 1/2 crosslay with TFT fog nozzle.
That's it folks. As with most places, our hose loads are revised like our SOGs, and can take a while to have change.
Nice thing about our lays is that they give us flexibility, and they are built around OUR buildings. There is ONE garden style apt that we can't hit with the 200' crosslay. Our building mix is mostly single or two family residential, and then a bunch of apartments.

Wait, so all those lights don't do anything?
Huh, wonder if the cops will catch on?

You come up with some odd questions, Seth. What I mean is the slant in this one about a RULE. Why would there need to be one? Is this something that needs to be legislated? That aside, lemme get to the meat of your question.
Here's how we do it at my agency. We used to say one backboarded patient only. Seeing as we don't backboard anyone anymore, it's pretty much one patient per ambulance.
We will take one extra ambulatory patient, and sometimes two based on circumstance. One thing that helped with this was the removal of the full bench seat from our ambulances. Take away the place to put a second backboarded patient, and pow, you call a second bus. Generally, if we do put extra patients in a bus, we add a provider, too. But, when all the seats are taken up by patients...where's the provider gonna sit?

You come up with some odd questions, Seth. What I mean is the slant in this one about a RULE. Why would there need to be one? Is this something that needs to be legislated? That aside, lemme get to the meat of your question.
Here's how we do it at my agency. We used to say one backboarded patient only. Seeing as we don't backboard anyone anymore, it's pretty much one patient per ambulance.
We will take one extra ambulatory patient, and sometimes two based on circumstance. One thing that helped with this was the removal of the full bench seat from our ambulances. Take away the place to put a second backboarded patient, and pow, you call a second bus. Generally, if we do put extra patients in a bus, we add a provider, too. But, when all the seats are taken up by patients...where's the provider gonna sit?

Although he's been on the job for a number of weeks already, our new Assistant Chief of Volunteer Services was sworn in last night.
http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/policereports/article/Stamford-volunteers-get-new-assistant-fire-chief-5874198.php On a personal note, I can think of no one better for this job at this time. Chief Morris has already made more progress in his first few weeks than was accomplished by anyone prior. He is not only one of the most decorated, if not THE most decorated, members of the FDNY with an impeccable reputation and a vast wealth of experience, he is also a man who knows how to bring people together and get things done. He has come full circle, literally, having started his long and storied fire service career as a volunteer here in Stamford and now he's back guiding the ship through the many obstacles which we face. Beyond that, for me personally "Rex" is a mentor, a role model and most of all someone I consider myself privileged to be able to call a friend. Congratulations "Boss"!!!

One thing not mentioned in the article is which generation of firefighters is suing. Is it current? Past? Hired thirty years ago?
Barry pointed out siren placement. When did buffalo move their sirens from the cab roof to the bumper? Who hear has ridden in a vehicle with a siren on the roof? It is ungodly loud.
Everyone knows sirens are loud. Biggest questions I see are where was the siren, and were protections offered to mitigate damage.