STAT213

You're not safe in any ambulance. No manufacturer does adequate testing. Horton won't release their crash test data. The way to ensure safety is to insist on specs that increase occupant safety i.e. restraints, equipment securing and design features.
Most importantly, you need to train your drivers. Do background driving checks on them. Don't let them speed. Speed and these vehicles are a match made for disaster. Train them to drive safe and slow.

You're not safe in any ambulance. No manufacturer does adequate testing. Horton won't release their crash test data. The way to ensure safety is to insist on specs that increase occupant safety i.e. restraints, equipment securing and design features.
Most importantly, you need to train your drivers. Do background driving checks on them. Don't let them speed. Speed and these vehicles are a match made for disaster. Train them to drive safe and slow.

"Vacant" structure with someone inside. Take note for the next time someone tells you to write off a vacant building...
Nice job YFD.

See, now this thread coulda gone places if you would've left the disclaimer off. Shame on you, SOUSGT.

Wait juuuuuust a minute here. Are you trying to tell us that a dept in Westchester County handled a building fire without ANY mutual aid to the scene?

Agreed, huge kudos to them.
See folks, it CAN be done.

An answer to a question that no one asked.

And there goes the thread.
Bottom of the hill, his point is a valid one.
It, however is, like many other posts on here, lost in the delivery. As soon as you call me names, or insult me or my involvement in whichever service I'm in, you've lost me.
It is VERY easy right now to type away on your computer, phone or whatever device a snappy reply to an internet posting. If it makes you feel good when you're typing it, wait 24 hours to post it.
Best to keep your virtual mouth shut and let folks wonder if you're an idiot than to open it and remove all doubt.
Now, as for that sexy black pooooooleece truck...riddle me this...how many times a year is it used? And by used I mean driven to a scene where stuff on it gets deployed. Not just parked.
And, how far away is the next closest one like it? If we ALL asked those questions when specing apparatus, think where we would be!
Regardless, it is a nice pic, Seth. Thanks for posting it.

My helicopter was a DOH inspected vehicle in THREE states. NJ, PA and NY. No plates. Just a big N117NY on the tail.
Yes, I'm being funny, but the point remains that it was an inspected and inspect able ambulance. While we did have a waiver for certain items in the Part 800 list, I doubt that they have an exception that limits the type of registration an ambulance shall have, just that it is valid - based mainly on the reasons above. It's a big state, and there are many agencies along its borders that provide either mutual aid or are the sole responders to calls that are based out of state.

you got my interest, you have staffing for 4 pieces of apparatus, but the truck isn't a priority. If it is sometimes last, and sometimes not at all, you don't need water, you need firefighters.
Ok, I'm not sure how my points about being firefighters first and being task oriented translate to a discussion of my department.
But I'll bite. We ALL need more firefighters. There are probably a handful of departments that would consider themselves fully staffed in the nation. And even those can find room for more guys.
I don't get why you feel the truck needs to be a priority all the time. Do you know how we operate? Do you know what equipment is carried on our pumps? Do you know that our coverage area is mostly rural and only 40% covered by hydrants? Would we like to have the truck on every call? Heck ya! Is it possible? Right now, no. How do we fix that? For now, a ladder is added to the rural district working fire run card. Problem is...it gets there way late. Can't win em all, but I think we do the best we can with our staffing.

For those of you on departments big enough to have engine companies and truck companies...bravo, good on you. I work for the fourth largest department in my state. We staff four fire companies, an ambulance and a duty battalion chief. Why do I saw four FIRE companies? Because depending on when you get to the fire will depend on your assignment. Yes, we have a truck, a 100 foot TL. It is crossed staffed by three guys who also staff en engine and our second due ambulance. They may be LAST due to some calls. Some calls, they don't take the truck (gasp!), they take the engine. So engine guys - wait for it, this'll blow you away - do TRUCK work. I did it last night myself on the 4th due fire engine.
Having engine guys and truckies is a luxury we just don't have. We have firefighters who do tasks assigned as needed. So to me, the answer to the original question is this: YES. Until you can get BOTH pieces out the door every time, fully staffed, you need that first piece to have water on it. Having a piece of apparatus that could show up at a fire and operate alone for an extended period without water seems pretty dumb. My district is 10 minutes from the next closest station. So even if we did have an engine AND a truck out of my station, to run a dry truck that could end up operating alone for an extended period unable to extinguish the fire is stupid. Do what needs to be done based on tactical priorities, not based on what kinda vehicle you're riding on that day.

Ok, so how does NCIS and Mr. Harmon then take over every investigation on the show????

My helicopter was a DOH inspected vehicle in THREE states. NJ, PA and NY. No plates. Just a big N117NY on the tail.
Yes, I'm being funny, but the point remains that it was an inspected and inspect able ambulance. While we did have a waiver for certain items in the Part 800 list, I doubt that they have an exception that limits the type of registration an ambulance shall have, just that it is valid - based mainly on the reasons above. It's a big state, and there are many agencies along its borders that provide either mutual aid or are the sole responders to calls that are based out of state.

Ok, so how does NCIS and Mr. Harmon then take over every investigation on the show????

It is also quite possible that they landed at Stewart and started the motorcade from there. Whole lot easier to lock down a base that already is gated than to land somewhere like HPN. And seeing as Stewart is within the coverage area of MLSS, that would be the point of origin for the call, and well, you can figure the rest out.
I've also worked for agencies that have been part of the presidential motorcade in the past. The members who were part of the motorcade were vetted by secret service well ahead of time, and they were detailed to the motorcade while it zipped ALL over upstate NY on a campaign junket.
And lastly, do you really think that the secret service cares about CON issues? Or that if NYS DOH/EMS showed up in his state issued SUV and told them that they needed to suspend their motorcade because, well, that um ambulance at the back of the, um motorcade isn't licensed for this area that they would?

Watching it again, I now agree that it wasn't a kick to the head. But, that was my first impression. Could've been someone else's too.
For the LEOs in here...Why put hands on and risk injury to officer and perpetrator? I'm not up on my escalation of force police policies. Can you go right to the taser, or do you have to escalate through hands on and pepper spray? Seems to be a high risk of injury rolling around and grappling.

Watching it again, I now agree that it wasn't a kick to the head. But, that was my first impression. Could've been someone else's too.
For the LEOs in here...Why put hands on and risk injury to officer and perpetrator? I'm not up on my escalation of force police policies. Can you go right to the taser, or do you have to escalate through hands on and pepper spray? Seems to be a high risk of injury rolling around and grappling.

The kick to the head is really the only questionable action in my mind.
I am all for tasers. Use them early. Resist like he did and get tased.
Yes, it is painful as all heck, but it reduces injury to suspect and officer alike. That in turn reduces liability. The only downside is public opinion, but that kick to the head will NOT help their case. Taser earlier, and it is done.

It is also quite possible that they landed at Stewart and started the motorcade from there. Whole lot easier to lock down a base that already is gated than to land somewhere like HPN. And seeing as Stewart is within the coverage area of MLSS, that would be the point of origin for the call, and well, you can figure the rest out.
I've also worked for agencies that have been part of the presidential motorcade in the past. The members who were part of the motorcade were vetted by secret service well ahead of time, and they were detailed to the motorcade while it zipped ALL over upstate NY on a campaign junket.
And lastly, do you really think that the secret service cares about CON issues? Or that if NYS DOH/EMS showed up in his state issued SUV and told them that they needed to suspend their motorcade because, well, that um ambulance at the back of the, um motorcade isn't licensed for this area that they would?

And there goes the thread.
Bottom of the hill, his point is a valid one.
It, however is, like many other posts on here, lost in the delivery. As soon as you call me names, or insult me or my involvement in whichever service I'm in, you've lost me.
It is VERY easy right now to type away on your computer, phone or whatever device a snappy reply to an internet posting. If it makes you feel good when you're typing it, wait 24 hours to post it.
Best to keep your virtual mouth shut and let folks wonder if you're an idiot than to open it and remove all doubt.
Now, as for that sexy black pooooooleece truck...riddle me this...how many times a year is it used? And by used I mean driven to a scene where stuff on it gets deployed. Not just parked.
And, how far away is the next closest one like it? If we ALL asked those questions when specing apparatus, think where we would be!
Regardless, it is a nice pic, Seth. Thanks for posting it.

And there goes the thread.
Bottom of the hill, his point is a valid one.
It, however is, like many other posts on here, lost in the delivery. As soon as you call me names, or insult me or my involvement in whichever service I'm in, you've lost me.
It is VERY easy right now to type away on your computer, phone or whatever device a snappy reply to an internet posting. If it makes you feel good when you're typing it, wait 24 hours to post it.
Best to keep your virtual mouth shut and let folks wonder if you're an idiot than to open it and remove all doubt.
Now, as for that sexy black pooooooleece truck...riddle me this...how many times a year is it used? And by used I mean driven to a scene where stuff on it gets deployed. Not just parked.
And, how far away is the next closest one like it? If we ALL asked those questions when specing apparatus, think where we would be!
Regardless, it is a nice pic, Seth. Thanks for posting it.

And there goes the thread.
Bottom of the hill, his point is a valid one.
It, however is, like many other posts on here, lost in the delivery. As soon as you call me names, or insult me or my involvement in whichever service I'm in, you've lost me.
It is VERY easy right now to type away on your computer, phone or whatever device a snappy reply to an internet posting. If it makes you feel good when you're typing it, wait 24 hours to post it.
Best to keep your virtual mouth shut and let folks wonder if you're an idiot than to open it and remove all doubt.
Now, as for that sexy black pooooooleece truck...riddle me this...how many times a year is it used? And by used I mean driven to a scene where stuff on it gets deployed. Not just parked.
And, how far away is the next closest one like it? If we ALL asked those questions when specing apparatus, think where we would be!
Regardless, it is a nice pic, Seth. Thanks for posting it.

Because in selling it, you reduce maintenance costs, insurance costs, replacement costs and the overall burden to the taxpayer. You can free up budgetary monies for other items. The list goes on and on. There just isn't a good reason for departments like the one I mentioned to have the size fleet that they do.
Same goes for many of the westchester fleets. You take a department with a few square mile coverage area who consistently can only put one piece on the road for calls. WHY do they need a fleet with three pumps? Or more? Why is there a county in NY with something like 57 heavy rescues with a smaller population than NYC who has 5?
It goes back to ones motivation and why you do what you do. Are your decisions made with the taxpayer in mind? Or your departments collective ego? Can you do it better with less? Do you need everything on that floor? Do you even use everything on that floor? Could you join forces with a neighbor and share services?

Having worked for STAT Flight and two other air medical programs, I can hopefully offer some useful tidbits to this discussion.
The helicopter is a resource like any other. It is supposed to provide faster transport and a higher level of care. If either of those will help your patient, then use it. There is VERY good evidence to show that two things are happening right now with helicopters. 1) getting patients to LEVEL ONE trauma centers quickly and efficiently helps them. 2) there is some overuse of aircraft leading to patients being discharged within 24 hours of arrival to the receiving facility.
The days of mechanism based transport should be done, just like mechanism based treatment. So, think. Will using the a/c benefit your patient? Will it get them there faster? I have done flights 6 miles from the med center. Stupid. It takes longer to fly in that case. I can tell you though, it's really tough for a number of different reasons to show up at a scene and not take the patient.
There are a number of STAT Flight horror stories from the early years. They made some poor choices in their staffing model and did not adequately train their crews as to the mission in the eyes of the pre hospital providers. Gotta ask your customers what THEY expect. There is a great photo somewhere of Air 1 on the sprain running with a patient in the back all by themselves. Rest of the wreck had cleared. ALL OF IT. and there they were stabilizing the patient as the capt said. Dumb. But, they thought they were doing the right thing. In a way, they were. In a way, they weren't.
Enough rambling. Peekskill may or may not be a good spot for a/c usage. Waiting for life star from CT with a patient who is lying in the road, prolly not. Load and go, do your best on the way.

Having worked for STAT Flight and two other air medical programs, I can hopefully offer some useful tidbits to this discussion.
The helicopter is a resource like any other. It is supposed to provide faster transport and a higher level of care. If either of those will help your patient, then use it. There is VERY good evidence to show that two things are happening right now with helicopters. 1) getting patients to LEVEL ONE trauma centers quickly and efficiently helps them. 2) there is some overuse of aircraft leading to patients being discharged within 24 hours of arrival to the receiving facility.
The days of mechanism based transport should be done, just like mechanism based treatment. So, think. Will using the a/c benefit your patient? Will it get them there faster? I have done flights 6 miles from the med center. Stupid. It takes longer to fly in that case. I can tell you though, it's really tough for a number of different reasons to show up at a scene and not take the patient.
There are a number of STAT Flight horror stories from the early years. They made some poor choices in their staffing model and did not adequately train their crews as to the mission in the eyes of the pre hospital providers. Gotta ask your customers what THEY expect. There is a great photo somewhere of Air 1 on the sprain running with a patient in the back all by themselves. Rest of the wreck had cleared. ALL OF IT. and there they were stabilizing the patient as the capt said. Dumb. But, they thought they were doing the right thing. In a way, they were. In a way, they weren't.
Enough rambling. Peekskill may or may not be a good spot for a/c usage. Waiting for life star from CT with a patient who is lying in the road, prolly not. Load and go, do your best on the way.