Piranha174

Neither one is a MERV. They are both METU's (Medical Evacuation Transport Unit)
The same UASI grant was used to purchase both.

Its actually the other way around. NYS mandates Counties to maintain a Sheriff's Office which Westchester does through the Police Department. Cities are also required to maintain Police. Town's and Villages are not.

Its actually the other way around. NYS mandates Counties to maintain a Sheriff's Office which Westchester does through the Police Department. Cities are also required to maintain Police. Town's and Villages are not.

Its actually the other way around. NYS mandates Counties to maintain a Sheriff's Office which Westchester does through the Police Department. Cities are also required to maintain Police. Town's and Villages are not.

The following link is to the WCPD PBA's response to the decision www.pbawcpd.org
The following is a link to the Town of Ossining and the questions raised of the village's proposal http://www.townofossining.com/j25/news/375-press-release-regarding-provision-of-police-services-now-available-online
There are some very valid points raised and it will be interesting to see if the Village is able to meet them.

The following link is to the WCPD PBA's response to the decision www.pbawcpd.org
The following is a link to the Town of Ossining and the questions raised of the village's proposal http://www.townofossining.com/j25/news/375-press-release-regarding-provision-of-police-services-now-available-online
There are some very valid points raised and it will be interesting to see if the Village is able to meet them.

The following link is to the WCPD PBA's response to the decision www.pbawcpd.org
The following is a link to the Town of Ossining and the questions raised of the village's proposal http://www.townofossining.com/j25/news/375-press-release-regarding-provision-of-police-services-now-available-online
There are some very valid points raised and it will be interesting to see if the Village is able to meet them.

I think STAT213's post is a good way to end this discussion. He gives some good advice and hopefully some will listen.
For the record, EMTBravo and me supports Westchester County Police Department and it's mission based on numerous years experience and familiarization with the agency.. It's one of the very few agencies in Westchester that truly understands and utilizes the "shared services" concept. I'm dismayed that there are some people who forget this equipment is there to protect us all who are in Westchester, resident or not. We're very lucky to have these relatively standard (to most major metropolitan areas PDs across the country) resources available to us. And lucky enough to have officers brave enough to man these type of units. It's unacceptable to bicker for bickering's sake and cause misconceptions on issues like this.
To anyone STILL questioning the need, please re-read my post below:

I can't tell if you're putting on an act and playing dumb, or if you're actually involved in emergencies services when you can't even structure a written sentence into a logical, cohesive manor with proper syntax, grammar and annunciation, so the rest of the world can understand you.
I get that it's the internet, and that people really could care less about spelling late vs. L8, or Lmao.... But seriously brotha, pick up a book and learn the difference between a period and an apostrophe.
People might actually take what you're trying to convey to us seriously.

They really aren't "toys". Yes, it may seem like (PD-wise) there is a lot of equipment, but if something big goes down those 'toys" will be saving lives. And WCPD had much of this equipment WAY before any of the local jurisdictions even considered obtaining their own. They were the first and only department in the area to have things such as a riot control unit, DWI Enforcement and prevention, and one of the first and only "Jaws Of Life" in Westchester County. Post-9/11 grants made it possible for many cities and municipalities to obtain their own equipment when it previously would have been financially impossible, and County PD used it to build and improve on what they already had.
As far as municipalities that have a lot of specialized equipment and units, Greenburgh has a lot of their own.
WCPD and their SOD not only supports and trains with the "big cities", but nearly all jurisdictions in the county. They cover both primary jurisdictions (Westchester County facilities like Playland, all County Parks, the County Office building, the County Center, the Medical Center/Grassland Campus, Westchester Community College, and HPN Westchester County Airport. They also cover busy contracted highways, and are the primary PD's for the Town Of Ossining, Cortlandt, and Village of Mount Kisco). They also work protective details at many high profile events in Westchester, and maintain security of the massive infrastructure in the county.
And, it doesn't matter whether it's a "big city" or not. Incidents as like Newtown and Eastchester PD Officer Michael Frey are a tragic example of something that could happen anywhere. The Eastchester incident made aware the need for specialized equipment and training in Westchester.
There have been many stories over the past few years where WCPD resources have been credited with saving lives and apprehending suspects, as well as preventing and interrupting criminal acts. Many local jurisdictions depend on WCPD's specialized shared services every day, and all county citizens and visitors benefit from it.
Take a close look at the WCPD vehicles and the equipment they carry. They get used, it's quite obvious. And a lot of time has been invested into training personnel so they always have proper staffing in a timely manner 24/7. I hope one day I am extended the privledge to photograph some of their equipment to illustrate what they are capable of.
The only level that County PD disappointed me on was the disbanding of the mounted unit. Mounted units are a great and positive outreach tool for law enforcement-public relationships....especially nowadays. Mounted units are also great at crowd control and just their visibility can be very intimidating and a deterent to many. I hope they bring it back someday.
For more reading, the following link details all the different specialized units within WCPD, and many aren't even in the everyday public eye:
http://publicsafety.westchestergov.com/shared-services-sp-139

All members of the Special Response Team are trained to use ALL of the equipment that Grant's (read your tax dollars) have purchased. Its not like we purchased a Rescue, that has to put a piece of apparatus out of service to staff. As far as tax money goes, who do you think pays for all of our equipment? Did the Echo Bay project have money trees grown to aquire equipment and personel? Bottom of da Hill, as far as the County needed more pieces of equipment, don't you think the tax payers could do with a few less firehouses to pay for in Tarrytown?

People who live in a glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

People who live in a glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

So, leave him and his parents there to die while they just watched? If you saw someone trying to get out of a burning car, would you just stand there and watch until FD arrival? If you saw a man collapse in the middle of an intersection, would you just stand there and watch because you didn't have a traffic safety vest? And how do you know what information the officers got from dispatch, and what they encountered. We don't have the facts to be scrutinizing these officers. I'm sure if it were two neighbors or off duty firefighters, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Sometimes, you need to risk some to save some. These officers evacuated the parents immediately, and went in for the son, who was moments away from death. Or, as you put it, "balls over brains". Or booksmart vs. streetsmart. It's easy to anylyze an incidents afterwards, but when you're in the moment, you do what you are trained to do.
Anyone who's had enough experience on the job knows when you are exposed to situations like this, you're often taken to the hospital just as a precaution. Such as firefighters with smoke inhalation. So just because the officers went to the hospital doesn't mean anything signifcant.
And the "previous IDLH incident" you refer to is like apples and oranges and doesn't need to be rehashed here.
The Police Officers in this situation took heroic action, for nothing else but to save lives. I'm not saying whether their actions were right, nor am I saying it was wrong. But 3 people are alive. Again, 'nuff said.

Oh Dinosaur it was almost not worth a response. You seem to have a problem with bashing anything WCPD Marine does. Is it envy?
Since you have so much knowledge of the day to day operations, could you please tell me how there are no cops for much of the year?
Also, how would you better utilize the alleged, by you, squandered grant money?

Oh Dinosaur it was almost not worth a response. You seem to have a problem with bashing anything WCPD Marine does. Is it envy?
Since you have so much knowledge of the day to day operations, could you please tell me how there are no cops for much of the year?
Also, how would you better utilize the alleged, by you, squandered grant money?

Not every field responder gets stabbed or shot (thank God!) but I see your point. I, for one, don't think communications folks should be equally paid with those in the field, but I do believe we deserve more than we get - as do the field units. No first responder should be paid what someone delivering mail or picking up garbage should be - that's a disgrace. But remember, if you ask many politicians, public safety folks are the devil!

Nice job at being critical of the police. You want us to be supportive of volunteers and a statement like that?

Nice job at being critical of the police. You want us to be supportive of volunteers and a statement like that?

Everybodygoes, I'm not looking to get into an arguement with you over what in the end is complete nonsense, but I am up for an intelligent rational discussion, so I'll respond to your post.
"The FDNY has been doing rescues since 1865, ESU was started what in the 20's?"
In 1865 the hodge podge of volunteer fire companies were superceded by the Metropolitan Fire Department, which in its beginning roots only covered parts of what is now Manhattan and later on Brooklyn. The FDNY officially became the FDNY in 1870. It wasn't until 1928 that the Bronx was pretty much completely served by the paid Fire Department, followed by Queens in 1929, and Staten Island in 1937. The Fire Departments main function was Fire Suppression. I have tried to research a bit more on the history of the FDNY and their involvement in rescue work, but have come up short in factual verifiable information. If you know where I can locate this, I'd be interested to read it. I know that Rescue 1 was officially formed in 1915, and Rescue 2 was officially formed in 1925. According to the unofficial website for Rescue 1, the formation of the rescue companies was borne out of several fires (Equitable Building, 1912, a Subway Train fire in 1915) wthere firefighters were encountered with difficult forcible entries, and realized the need for a company that carried specialized equipment to operate at these fire scenes. As time went on, Rescue began to get more involved in the Technical Rescue arena, but their original responsibility was to operate at fire scenes, and perform rescues of firefighters and civilians at structural fire scenes (taken from an unofficial Rescue 2 website). This was a time when the FDNY had their hands full with structural fires. Rescue 1 was first equipped with it's first Hurst Tool in 1972. The NYPD was officially formed in 1854 (20 years before the Metropolitan Fire Dept.). ESU was formed in 1925 from a pool of police officers who possessed special skills (electricians, carpenters, riggers, etc.) with the sole purpose of performing rescue assignments. The Unit was also known as the departments Firearms Battalion, and years later the Unit was coined the Mobile Security Unit, where it was tasked with responding to both rescues and tactical situations. Their role as a tactical unit expanded in the 1970's after the Munich Olympics massacre. Not sure when ESU equipped their vehicles with hurst tools. In a book written about the history of FDNY Rescue 1, it was written that members of the NYPD ESU actually helped train the first members of Rescue 1 (I'm not making claims to the accuracy of the material, just relaying what was written. I'll re-post the title of the book when I dig it up). ESU was formed to serve the cop on patrol. At a time when NYC was burning down and the FDNY had their hands full with structural fires, the members of ESU were a resource for the patrol cop to handle these rescue jobs. Before the formation of FDNY Rescue, members of the FDNY performed rescues with the limited equipment and training they had. Before the formation of NYPD ESU, members of the NYPD performed rescues with the limited equipment and training they had. So to say one was doing it before the other... not sure how much weight that holds.
Westchester County PD has hurst tools before the overwhelming majority of FD's, especially in the northern part of Westchester County, and were the only one's equipped to perform vehicle extrications on certain parts of the County highways for many years.
"You tell me who is better trained at doing it."
I don't know, who is? What discipline are we talking about? ESU members go through a Rope Rescue Technician course provided by a nationally recognized training organization that meets NFPA 1670 and 1006 requirements, and go for continual training multiiple times a year, whether it is self-driven Squad level training, mandated in-house training, or training provided by outside training organizations. ESU members go through an AVET course similar to the Fire Service, and through self-motivation and discipline will often visit local junk yards to train on scrap and derelict vehicles during the course of their normal tour to remain competent on their skills. They go through the EPA Haz Mat Technician course, the FEMA Structural Collapse Technician course, all meet and exceed the NFPA requirements. All ESU members are at a minimum EMT's with several Paramedics and one or two Physician Assistants in the ranks. Unless things have changed, all FDNY members are CFR's (with some EMT's/medics thrown in there). Since we are technically better trained emergency medical responders (as in trained to a higher standard), should ESU take over patient care activities when we arrive on scene?
"You show up with 2 we show up with 6"
You are correct, and sometimes 2 is all you need... more is not always better. I agree that on jobs that are manpower intensive (structural collapses, trench rescues) rolling 6 deep is a huge benefit, and necessary for the operation at hand, and something that ESU really can't compete with. But look at the majority of confirmed pin jobs.. they're simple door jobs that are mitigated in minutes. Quite often I'll see 2 guys working and 4 standing around doing nothing. Even on a simple, minor MVA with injuries on the highway when you have 2 and 2 rolling in with 4 (I think) guys on each piece of apparatus. That's 16 guys either standing around or jockeying for position for one totally stable patient. It's not a knock or a low-blow, it's simple observation. On a more technical or complicated job, we should all be able to work together, and I think the concept of working together is more prevalent in the outer-boroughs. I haven't been around that long, but overall I've had no real major issues when it comes to working together. What it comes down to more often then not is not the patch on the sleeve, but the mentaility of the individual.
As I mentioned before, Westchester County PD handled extrications on the County Highways for many, many years before a lot of the local VFD's had hurst tools, and they got the job done in most instances without 6 people showing up.
"But, don't tell me what happened in Brooklyn was a rare occurence, cause it isnt."
I didn't say it was a rare occurence. What I am saying it's that it's not a one-sided problem. I'm not trying to bash anyone or any agency, but I'll give you 2 examples. Queens, 2 ESU members tethered and outfitted in gumby suits are effecting an ice rescue. After making contact with the victims, members of the FDNY show-up and 5 or 6 run out onto the ice in bunker gear. No tethers, no protective suits, just bunker gear. Can you guess what happens? Ice breaks, and all of them fall through the ice into the freezing cold water and now they all have to be rescued. All of this was caught on video by a news chopper. Don't believe me, I'll post the video here. How is that scenario any different then the one you portrayed about ESU guys trying to be the "it guys", and endangering their own safety and the safety of the other responders who now have to get them out of the water? Or a more recent scenario. Water rescue, male in the water up along the seawall. ESU arrives, one member suits up in a drysuit, and while being tethered, enters the water and grabs the person in the water. While this is going on, FDNY members drop a ladder in the water, and insist on putting one of their own in the water, eventhough the person is "in-custody" for lack of a better term. Now the ESU member has to wait for the FDNY member to descend the ladder so him and the victim can climb the ladder out of the water. The FDNY member entered the water, and came right back up the ladder. What purpose did that serve other then to be the "it guy"? If we want to get technical, according to NYC CIMS, NYPD is the lead agency for all water incidents. What it comes down to is the A-type personality that the majority of us possess and everyone wants to be that "it guy", unfortunately sometimes people's judgements get clouded and irrational decisions are made on both sides, not just one. That's the only point I'm trying to make.
"Guys in Truck 4 are all aces, never had a single problem with them and they work with us well, and of course you cant paint with a broad brush, but it does happen and nothing is done to mediate it. "
Like I said before, I think as you get into the outer-boroughs, there's less drama overall. I don't have an answer as to why nothing is done to mediate it.
"Wonder why it doesnt happen in Yonkers?"
I don't know, maybe someone from Yonkers can chime in. Maybe it's a better working relationship. Maybe Yonkers ESU wants little to do with rescue work. Maybe we just don't hear about the problems. Maybe the current workload leads to few occasions where there's a potential for a problem. I honestly don't know.

The real issue here is, how much control the city can exude over it's police officers when they're off duty. I don't work for the NYPD, but I DO work for the city of New York and I'll be damned if I let them tell me what I can and can't wear while I'm off duty. Simple fact is, they don't pay me enough to control my life 24/7/365. They barely pay me enough to be on duty 50 hours a week...
Look, it's bad enough that you can get fired for a DWI that's gotten while off duty. I know...DWI's are a terrible thing and I understand the need for the job to enforce it, but it's yet another encroachment on my time and life as a private citizen, not a uniformed officer. Mayor Bloomberg states that NYPD officers are "always NYPD officers"...to that I say....I guess you'd better pay them about 120 hours of overtime a week, because that's the time they're not "on duty", but really always are according the Mayor Mike.

I can answer who was in the Philippines around the same time; his name is Ramzi Yousef. He built and detonated the 1993 bomb at The World Trade Center. Speaking of coincidences, guess who his uncle is; Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. Yes that KSM currently being held in Guantanamo; the "brains" behind the 9/11 attacks. Yousef is doing a life without parole gig in a Federal Prison.
Radical Islamists are here to stay in this world. Don't be a dhimi, a multiculturalist, who thinks these Radicals want to assimilate with us "infidels." Their goal is an Islamic Caliphate, the elimination of the ONLY democracy in the middle east; Israel. They want a Caliphate that extends around the world. And according to their holy book, it is just fine to lie and be deceitful toward the "enemy" to achieve their goals.
I'm really surprised by some of you. A mere ten years later, and you guys sound like a bunch of naive liberal college kids...."everything can be worked out, just accept these people...they have no grand plans at world domination."
I have a great place for you to start if you truly give a cr@p and want to LEARN: "1000 YEARS FOR REVENGE" (International Terrorism and The FBI), BY Peter Lance, ReganBooks.
Do some reading, then get back to those of us, who not only remember 9/11 like it was yesterday, but have educated ourselves about the ENEMY ever since.

Your thanks should be directed to the NYPD Aviation Unit/Air Sea Rescue and NYSP Aviation. WCPD Aviation did not respond.

Mike,
Thank you for again allowing me to have an opportunity to debunk this common misconception that career and volunteer firefighters "perform exactly the same duties" ...
...I will reiterate what has been discussed on this forum on numerous occasions in the past...Career firefighters are generally hired as the result of a competitive testing process...prior to hiring, medical tests are performed...background investigations are conducted....testing is done for illegal substance use, etc...the overwhelming majority of candidates who apply for a job as a career firefighter are not ever hired...once hired, career firefighters are trained in an academy lasting for at least 3 months, and generally longer....testing is done, and not everyone gets through....career firefighters are required to be in the firehouse during their assigned shifts...promotional testing in the career fire service is based on extremely competitive written examinations....minimum annual training standards are more stringent for career vs. volunteer fire service...I could go on and on....
If a career firefighter screws up, he is putting his livelihood at risk...if a volunteer firefighter screws up, he is putting his hobby at risk...it is acknowledged by almost all fire service organizations that the incidence of arson by firefighter is far higher amongst the volunteer fire service than on the career side...
I could go on and on here, but hopefully this will give you the jist of it.
I would have no problem with this proposed legislation if the volunteers in my community were to live up to all of the same standards which are required of career firefighters in other communities in New York State...
...and please, we have been down this road before, so I will ask you not to state how YOU have all of these same qualifications, blah, blah...I have stated what are the MINIMUM standards for ALL career firefighters in NYS, so let's compare apples to apples...save the "I do the same exact job as the career guys I just don't get paid" malarkey for your wives or girlfriends unless you can come with some facts...

I want to d omore to serve the public safety in my community, so I think that becoming a city councilman will give me the ability to improve public safety. THe requirements in my city to run for council are: I must be over 18 y/o and live in the district I'm running for. But wait, I am not allowed to run for office because I am a career firefighter. If I still lived in the district but volunteered as a FF out of town I could run for ofice, but not as a career FF. Dose that not violate my rights? Why am I not allowed to volunteer my time to serve the community I live and pay taxes in?
True its employeers that actually prohibit what I can or can not do. Not the union, since we established that even in a strong labor state I do not have to be a union member, just pay the fee for services they provide.
The States have decided that or lobbying groups have convinced law makers that it was in there best interest to vote on a bill that the volunteers want?
I am sure they are available, you just have to ask. I'm sure CSEA or the Teamsters would have no problem with you volunteering with public works. Funny I thought it was founded by the insurance industry (Ben Franklin) for his own financial interests.