Highway Responses

[JBE 328]

I had a question about this, and if this is the wrong forum for it, then kindly move it. I was noticing in the Alert about the MVA/Fire on 287 that the White Plains Chief added a truck to the assignment. How often do you guys up there operate on a highway without a second piece of apparatus(Chiefs cars not included) backing you up and blocking traffic??

[NoWestFF 21]

In Golden's Bridge (one of the many towns intersected by I-684), our SOP requires a second large unit to respond to calls on the interstate to block traffic and provide a safer working area. Note that I did not say "safe" working area as you always have to keep an eye on the traffic when operating on a highway.

Case in point: we had a car fire on I-684 this evening and had a few units operating. E-140 was first due and R-24 was second due in this case since the original dispatch said possible entrapment. Normally our tanker would be second due to ensure a sufficient water supply since you never know what you'll be confronted with on I-684. In either case, the first-due engine is backed up by at least one large unit that acts as a blocker. Aside from one or two chief's cars depending upon circumstances, we may run our Suburban (Rescue 25) onto I-684 to augment the fire police / traffic control detail.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

The department I work for, never unless it is a car fire. In fact, despite numerous discussions, there is a serious lack of attempting to block the scene with an apparatus.

[CAM502 6]

FDMV sends 1 Engine, 1 Truck, and the Rescue to a reported MVA on the highway.

[robert benz 344]

in New Ro we have I-95 which gets 2 engines one coming north one going south because you cant assume the info you are getting is correct, also a heavy rescue and deputy chief,

also have the Hutch which gets 2 engines same deal, ladder 13 w/ extrication equipment, and the deputy chiefs vehicle.

depending on the call, the rescue can be added to the Hutch assignment and

Ladder 13 can be added to I-95

as many lanes as needed are to be blocked, and that has caused major problems with state pd over the years.

too many firefighters and police officers injured and killed every year on thruways and parkways, stop whatever traffic you have to to operate safely

[res6cue 67]

We cover between exits 10 and just past 13 of the Palisades Interstate Parkway, around 12 combined miles total northbound and southbound. We're very lucky in that the PIP is only 2 lanes wide each direction with no paved shoulder, which means that just about any incident shuts it down completely anyway. But in cases where the vehicle is off on the grass shoulders, we shut it down anyway. The Troopers not only don't complain when we do so, but they usually have it shut down before we even get there. On the flip side, that makes it very hard at times to even respond since it gets backed up so quick and there's no shoulder to respond on. Generally once we have confirmation that all traffic is stopped, we'll get on the next exit and come the wrong way. We roll no less than an engine and rescue from each station for both vehicle fires and extrications regardless of where it takes place.

Edited August 18, 2006 by res6cue

[turk182 37]

Rye is waiting on additional lighting (arrow stick and some leds) on the rear of ladder 25. Once the new lighting is in place Rye will respond a engine and ladder on all highway calls. The ladder is to be used solely for blocking. We are also working on getting the chevron pattern on the rear of both pieces.

[JBE 328]

It's good to see that some departments are taking that step in the right direction when it comes to safety.

[Guest]

As a paramedic I don't feel safe on the scene of an MVA untill I see a Fire truck blocking traffic. Police cars and chiefs cars aren't going to stop a car going 70+ mph.

[cas2383 22]

Down in PC I know they just recently added a pop up arrow board to U65. Almost every engine in the Village is equipped with arrow sticks or some type of device on the back.

[hudson144 150]

fdmv up until recently sent an eng with 2 ff and a officer,as safety issues were brought to the attention of the supervisors of the dept. the assignment now stands for 1eng,1 trk and the rescue,something long overdue which needed to be changed!!!

[Shantz02 0]

Hudson,

I noticed that change not too long ago and find it to be very beneficial.

Here in Pelham, we currently run with an Engine and our Rescue. Do note however, any call that Pelham takes in on the Hutch is a Dual Response with MVFD. So when it boils down, you are putting a lot of trucks on a two lane highway which can then be very effectively shut down.

There had been some brief discussions a few months back about sending the ladder out as well. They occured after the ladder had been out on the road when an MVA call came in. In that case, the Ladder responded instead of returning to quarters and having the FF jump on the Engine. I must say, the amount of space it blocked made everyone on scene breathe a little easier.

[Remember585 815]

In my little nook of the world, Croton, it also took many of us (CFD320, 1191stdue, tanker10eng, xchief2x and others) to push our Chiefs to send FD units on MVA calls.

For a short period, we would send E120 from the south and E119 from the north along with R18 and EMS for MVAs on Route 9.

T10 also responds on Route 9 fire calls.

Now, we cut back and send 1 Engine & R18 for all MVAs in our district. The benefits are countless, ranging from lane and traffic control to transporting personnel on apparatus instead of thier POVs.

With the new Engine 119 in service, we can utilize the tower light on R18 and/or the (8) 500 watt floodlights on our rig.

One of these days I'd like to see us and Montrose work out a dual response for incidents north of Senesqua Road....but I don't think it will...

[Guest]

In Brewster we never respond with just an ambulance to the interstate. We cover I-684 to the Westchester Line, the 684/84 Interchange, and I-84 from the CT line to approx M/M 64 (8 miles?).

Whether the call requires fire apparatus or not, an engine always responds with the ambulance for protection of the ambulance crew and traffic control.

[Guest]

I volly in a town so small that we don't even have a traffic light but we have done a lot of work with Brewster on I-684 and I-84 and having an engine or their ladder to back the ambulance and personell up while operating at a car accident or aided case is definitly an added feeling of security even though its not perfect becuase you can always have that one person that finds their way through.

[FirNaTine 370]

fdmv up until recently sent an eng with 2 ff and a officer,as safety issues were brought to the attention of the supervisors of the dept. the assignment now stands for 1eng,1 trk and the rescue,something long overdue which needed to be changed!!!

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I hear ya 144. Unfortunately, it took a pin job with 2 fatalities to get our highway response changed. That's par for the course though!

[hudson144 150]

as mentioned by Mr benz-emergency responders are getting hit out on the roadways,chances are that alot of the accidents that may be minor may only require an ambulance and an eng. In many cases where manpower is an issue 2 man eng co is not sufficent when it comes to working on anything.Even with an officer on board the 2 man eng co. has the mpo who has his assigned task of driving and operating the pump if needed. the nozzleman has his assignment to stretch a line an either stand by or attack the fire,being that we are talking about parkway responses lets say its a car fire. As the 1 man hoseman trys to attack the fire the officer decides to help out and gets on the hoseline with the other member. Now there is no one watching the store. the cars are still buzzing by as 70+ mph and rubber necking. the engine co is in a bad position of being wacked by oncoming traffic.Apparatus must be used as a block to protect our own,this not only standstrue on the highways but even in the local streets. its important to have additional manpower on the scene to help resolve the incident,yes you may tie up another rig but whats more important the rig or our lives?

[FirNaTine 370]

as mentioned by Mr benz-emergency responders are getting hit out on the roadways,chances are that alot of the accidents that may be minor may only require an ambulance and an eng. In many cases where manpower is an issue  2 man eng co is not sufficent when it comes to working on anything.Even with an officer on board the 2 man eng co. has the mpo who has his assigned task of driving and operating the pump if needed. the nozzleman has his assignment to stretch a line an either stand by or attack the fire,being that we are talking about parkway responses lets say its a car fire. As the 1 man hoseman trys to attack the fire the officer decides to help out and gets on the hoseline with the other member. Now there is no one watching the store. the cars are still buzzing by as 70+ mph and rubber necking. the engine co is in a bad position of being wacked by oncoming traffic.Apparatus must be used as a block to protect our own,this not only standstrue on the highways but even in the local streets. its important to have additional manpower on the scene to help resolve the incident,yes you may tie up another rig but whats more important the rig or our lives?

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Unfortunately Hudson, it appears the rigs are more important to some Depts. than our lives, especially if they're brand new. What I always couldn't figure out though, is why a Dept. would send a truck co. on a vehicle fire on the roadway, but not on a highway. I've always liked FDNR's policy of dispatching 2 eng. cos. in either direction, not only for the reason stated which for the most part seems to be the rule rather than the exception, but for the simple reason that I don't know of to many parkways/highways within the area that have an established water supply. God forbid you need more than the 500 gallons on board or the 1st due engine has mechanical problems once on scene! You're going to look pretty foolish standing around watching a vehicle burn, unless it's still within the extingiushing capabilities of a can or two. Just my 2 cents.

[ex-commish 490]

I had a question about this, and if this is the wrong forum for it, then kindly move it. I was noticing in the Alert about the MVA/Fire on 287 that the White Plains Chief added a truck to the assignment. How often do you guys up there operate on a highway without a second piece of apparatus(Chiefs cars not included) backing you up and blocking traffic??

←

We roll our rescue-pumper to all mva's. It has been used to block all lanes of traffic. We recently purchased a very large orange sign that says " accident ahead" that is placed about 125' ahead of the accident. We have used it allready and seems to be helpful.

[preemo16 1]

The department I work for covers parts of: The Bronx River Parkway, The Sprain Brook Parkway, and I-287, so we get our fill of highway calls. I know our officers wouldn't even entertain the idea of sending just a single rig out there. (except in the rare case of multiple calls in progress) It is a bit reassuring to see either the engine or the rescue behind us providing lane protection, but as was mentioned earlier in this forum, you still have to keep an eye out. On the lighter side ... come to an incident on the Sprain between 100-B and Jackson Ave, and you will feel about as safe as you can with up to 4 rigs (from 2 depts) and units from 2 PD's.

Take care-

[Cos Cob 215 7]

In Cos Cob, CT (Fire Police Patrol) we respond to incidents on I-95 between Exits 3 and 6 mostly. We always send our big truck (Patrol 2) as a back-up unit for responders from Greenwich PD/FD/EMS and CSP. There were a lot of good ideas in this thread, but some concern about people (who I also realize are out there) that are worried about getting their new apparatus wrecked. Our big truck while it costs about the same as an engine, has been classified as completely and total disposable when it comes to being used as a giant traffic cone. The Byram FD had their Utility 3 demolished near the Weigh Station about 3 years ago and a Greenwich Police Officer lost his leg while getting equipment out of his trunk about 20 years ago. My dad worked for GPD at the time and it was one of the scariest and saddest moments in his career when he got the news.

Also, our State Troopers tend to be very realistic when it comes to adding that extra lane of safety for the ambulance crew, the stretched fire hose, etc. In return we try to act efficiently to get the necessary jobs done quickly.

[robert benz 344]

Unfortunately Hudson, it appears the rigs are more important to some Depts. than our lives, especially if they're brand new. What I always couldn't figure out though, is why a Dept. would send a truck co. on a vehicle fire on the roadway, but not on a highway. I've always liked FDNR's policy of dispatching 2 eng. cos. in either direction, not only for the reason stated which for the most part seems to be the rule rather than the exception, but for the simple reason that I don't know of to many parkways/highways within the area that have an established water supply. God forbid you need more than the 500 gallons on board or the 1st due engine has mechanical problems once on scene! You're going to look pretty foolish standing around watching a vehicle burn, unless it's still within the extingiushing capabilities of a can or two. Just my 2 cents.

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very good point about the extra water, that is another reason for sending 2 engines. I have been involved with vehicle fires that didnt get totally extinguished with 500 gals in the "old' days we used booster lines so you didnt get the right amount of h2o to overcome the btu's. and now with plastic fuel tanks once the fuel gets into the mix you are in for a new adventure. Remember a vehicle fire with nobody trapped and no exposure problems, the responders are the only ones at risk, work safe and smart!!!

[tglass59 27]

THE WHITE PLAINS CHIEF MADE A GREAT CALL, PER OUR SOG FOR A MVA ANYWHERE IN THE CITY, THE RESCUE AND AN ENGINE ARE DISPATCHED, HOWEVER ON THIS RUN IT WAS AN MVA WITH A CONFIRMED CAR FIRE, OUR SOG CALLS FOR AN ENGINE AND A TRUCK ON VEHICLE FIRES. I AGREE THAT AN ENGINE, A TRUCK AND THE RESCUE SHOULD ROLL AN ALL MVA'S, NUMBER ONE REASON IS OUR SAFETY BOTTOM LINE, AND THE NUMBER TWO REASON IS MANPOWER.