Sleepy Hollow FF Involved In On-Scene Scuffle Considers Criminal Complaint

[dadbo46 50]

Injured Sleepy Hollow firefighter considers criminal complaint

By SHAWN COHEN

THE JOURNAL NEWS

(Original publication: November 27, 2007)

TARRYTOWN - Two Sleepy Hollow firefighters fought at a weekend fire in Tarrytown, and one of them - who wound up in the hospital - is considering filing a criminal complaint, police say.

http://lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID...338/1018/NEWS02

[helicopper 1,050]

So the Sleepy Hollow saga(s) continue. Is it something in the water there or what?

[calhobs 110]

I guess we missed the article about the Tarrytown hydrants being privately owned, I guess this gets most of the attention then the residents of the Wilson Park area of Tarrytown’s lives to be in danger, or I guess we should let this over shadow what a good job was done by all departments, or maybe we stop the Sleepy Hollow Saga NOW.

As a member of Sleepy Hollow FIRE DEPARTMENT I find this article and post disgusting. Sleepy Hollow has one of the finest fire departments around, and I am tired of hearing of us bashed here and on the streets. I am proud of our leadership and of our membership. I would trust my life with anyone in my department. How many of you can say that. I can’t believe the press ran this story of a two firefighters pushing each other. Then for it posted here is real professionalism. I am soooooooo sure that this will be a constructive post. Thanks a lot for posting it!!!!

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

I posted that in the other thread.

Failed fire hydrants privately owned, Tarrytown says

By GERALD MCKINSTRY

THE JOURNAL NEWS

(Original publication: November 27, 2007)

TARRYTOWN - Fire hydrants that failed during a Cobb Lane fire were not the village's responsibility because they were on private property, officials said yesterday.

http://emtbravo.net/index.php?showtopic=21720

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

I guess we missed the article about the Tarrytown hydrants being privately owned, I guess this gets most of the attention then the residents of the Wilson Park area of Tarrytown’s lives to be in danger, or I guess we should let this over shadow what a good job was done by all departments, or maybe we stop the Sleepy Hollow Saga NOW.

As a member of Sleepy Hollow FIRE DEPARTMENT I find this article and post disgusting. Sleepy Hollow has one of the finest fire departments around, and I am tired of hearing of us bashed here and on the streets. I am proud of our leadership and of our membership. I would trust my life with anyone in my department. How many of you can say that. I can’t believe the press ran this story of a two firefighters pushing each other. Then for it posted here is real professionalism. I am soooooooo sure that this will be a constructive post. Thanks a lot for posting it!!!!

Wait so now all of a sudden anything in the paper about Sleepy Hollow can't be posted? I happen to be very good friends with the WHOLE FAMILY of one of the participants. I don't know what happened and I really don't care. If you have a problem with somebody don't do it in public. Some how the paper found out about it and now it should be talked about. I don't see it as being a bash.

This same type of incident happened in out Town last year around this time and one of the person involved was hurt pretty bad and lost lots of time at work. How come people don't get along? We are not saying that there wasn't a job well done by everyone there, we are saying it isn't very PROFESSIONAL TO BE FIGHTING WITH YOUR FELLOW FF's.

[x635 4,066]

People need to stop getting so defensive, and relax! I don't see this as being a "bash", this was published in the COUNTYWIDE newsletter, as well as on the WORLD WIDE WEB. This is going to be discussed whether here or on the street, civilians and firefighters from all over. I wouldn't be suprised if this made it to Firehouse.com or further. With that said:

IF THE FACTS IN THE PAPER AREN'T TRUE, THEN WHY NOT USE THIS FORUM TO STRAIGHTEN THE STORY OUT?????'

I find it quite interesting that over the past few years, there have been a few incidents involving emergency services in Sleepy Hollow. These have made it to the local media, time and time again. Yet when it's discussed on this forum, people from SH come on here and cry that they're being bashed, and get really defensive-yet never seem to give the facts on what happened except to say that they are proud of their department and they are perfect, and don't understand why people are "picking on them".

I'm sorry, these incidents obviously can't be swept under the carpet, especially with the reporter who's covering the story. I don't know what happened at the scene, but since no one there wants to straighten out the Journal News story, then that's all I have to go on. I don't know what the argument was about, or how it went down, but I hope the appropriate disciplinary action is dealt out swiftly....this nonsense, no matter how trivial, does not need to occur on the fire scene, especially with the news media so hypervigilant about things like this. According to the JN, Tarrytown FD found it serious enough to call the PD, and one of the involved was transported to the hospital. This was a noteable incident, that I'm sure has occured elsewhere in the county at various times through the years.

I guess when something goes well, people want all the glory in the world. But when something goes wrong, no one wants so accept responsibilty or admit their may be an (isolated) issue. I'm suprised that no Sleepy Hollow FD member tried to emphasize that this was an isolated incident.

Am I wrong, or do other members feel this way?

[Guest alsfirefighter]

No....I don't find Chris192's comment as being a bash. I find it to be comical. We even use that same phrase where I work all the time "Don't ever drink the water," when on a scene and things are nuts. Its a tension breaker. Constructive yes...but lets not get nuts, having a sense of humor is a must also. There is nothing constructive to be said here about the incident reported.

Not for nothing, but no one on here writes the articles that end up in the paper. And whether it was Sleepy Hollow FD or Tinbuktu FD anyone reserves the right to comment. You've either some issues that are above just a few articles or just one hell of a run of bad luck when it comes to the news catching on. As far as letting this article overshadow everything else that happened that can be viewd as a positive....all it takes is one screw up (would have liked to use the F word here for impact) to erase 99 atta boys. Your only as good as your last negative. We don't live on our merits for long in emergency services, we find our weaknesses and mistakes and work to improve them. As far as residents lives being in danger...they should no longer be. The issue is known and with effective pre-planning those private mains should no longer be an issue.

No one here is immune from criticism, no one in emergency services profession is immune. You need to sit down and look at the comments and take your medicine like it or not. It is what it is. If it honestly bothers anyone that much...don't read it.

[Goose 188]

If you're that scared of criticism you could always take the advice of Elbert Hubbard: "To avoid criticism do nothing, say nothing, be nothing."

Edited November 27, 2007 by Goose

[nycemt728 49]

Look criticism sucks, but if you don't want to be criticized then don't do stupid things that affect other people. A fight on the fireground between two on duty firefighters, no matter how important is innappropriate and unprofessional. If thats not what happened, then thats fine and I would be happy to see that its not, but until new facts come out, thats what we've got to go on.

A fight is somthing that is completely in ones' ability to control: the two people involved made a conscious decsion to engage in that course of action. I am proud of where I work and where I volly same as you calhobs, but theres a limit. Public saftey personel need to be professional and think rationally, and that includes not sweeping things under the rug b/c they're embarrassing or allowing a work enviornment where tention is brought to level of physical violence.

[firecapt32 282]

Again as I have stated before and stated in classes that I instruct WE ARE HELD TO A HIGHER STANDARD there are no doubts about it. I am not certain but I dont thinnk they were arguing about line placemenets or maybe they were any case fire ground is not the place---

[Guest]

Sleepy Hollow firefighter suspended following weekend altercation at fire

By SHAWN COHEN

THE JOURNAL NEWS

(Original publication: November 27, 2007)

SLEEPY HOLLOW - A Sleepy Hollow firefighter accused of fighting with a colleague at a weekend fire has been suspended from the department and could face expulsion, the fire chief said today.

The department has ordered an internal investigation and hearing into allegations that Patrick Hayes repeatedly shoved Miguel Valle at a fire Saturday in Tarrytown, said Fire Chief John Korzelius.

FULL UPDATED STORY: http://www.nyjournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...EWS02/711270405

[JBE 328]

What I find laughable about this whole situation is the fact that the guy who got shoved can't settle this without getting the PD involved. Settle it after the fire, back at the firehouse. Get the chief involved and get it straightened out in house. No need to get the cops involved.

[Guest]

Sounds like the one guy was made of porcelain! He blew his knee from being shoved? Perhaps he was trying to stand in the way of someone who was trying to help? I agree with the other posters who stated this is not something that should be in the publics view. Apparently this guy has a lot of other problems stemming from a mistake made with the gasoline true or not. I miss the old days when you could get down to it and then it would be over.

[ex-commish 490]

I miss the old days when you could get down to it and then it would be over.

So do I. The climate I have been used to was one where you settled things like men in house and when it was over it was over.

[Goose 188]

Sounds like the one guy was made of porcelain! He blew his knee from being shoved? Perhaps he was trying to stand in the way of someone who was trying to help? I agree with the other posters who stated this is not something that should be in the publics view. Apparently this guy has a lot of other problems stemming from a mistake made with the gasoline true or not. I miss the old days when you could get down to it and then it would be over.

I agree with everything you have to say, with the exception that this shouldn't be in the publics view. While they are volunteers, they are charged with a public service and likely receive some sort of public funding. Given that, they are ultimately accountable to the taxpayers and the people have a right to know about things of this nature, especially if its costing the village/town resources (an ambulance in this case). Likewise, i want to know the caliber of people that are protecting my life and property and if the vollies can't maintain a decent standard, mitigating efforts need to be taken. If there was a history of in fighting between these two particular individuals, why wasn't it resolved earlier? Clearly this situation is much larger than a simple in-house personality conflict. I hate to sound rash, but i'm glad i don't live in Tarrytown.

Edited November 28, 2007 by Goose

[gpdexplorer 46]

Before we start making comments about these two guys, we should try to find out all the facts. I'm gonna tell a story about what happened because I've heard it second hand, and thats how rumors get started. The gasoline incident has nothing to do with this incident. I do know that while we working at the scene I heard one of the SHFD chiefs call for the PD to take a report.

[Guest]

Sounds like the one guy was made of porcelain! He blew his knee from being shoved?

....he had "knee-replacement surgery" according to lohud.com prior to this inicident

Edited November 28, 2007 by vacguy

[RescueKujo 130]

Sounds like the one guy was made of porcelain! He blew his knee from being shoved?

It probably depends on how he landed. Land at a bed angle and there goes a ligament or 2. I've seen where someone was being taken down and resisted so hard that in forcibly taking the him down he blew out his knee. Look at Milton Bradley when the Padres manager was trying to keep him from the umpire, he blew out his knee when being pushed.

[Bababoosky 24]

It probably depends on how he landed. Land at a bed angle and there goes a ligament or 2. I've seen where someone was being taken down and resisted so hard that in forcibly taking the him down he blew out his knee. Look at Milton Bradley when the Padres manager was trying to keep him from the umpire, he blew out his knee when being pushed.

And he was forced to give up baseball forever, and then fall back on his second love, board games.

[johnvv 20]

I have a question regarding the incident that maybe someone knows- How is a firefighter with a recently repaired knee allowed to operate on a fire scene and why he was not on light duty?

As for the rest of the incident, I hope I don't read about the facts of the incident. I would rather have the situation go away, and let the black eye it gives all firefighters time to heal.

[helicopper 1,050]

I guess we missed the article about the Tarrytown hydrants being privately owned, I guess this gets most of the attention then the residents of the Wilson Park area of Tarrytown’s lives to be in danger, or I guess we should let this over shadow what a good job was done by all departments, or maybe we stop the Sleepy Hollow Saga NOW.

As a member of Sleepy Hollow FIRE DEPARTMENT I find this article and post disgusting. Sleepy Hollow has one of the finest fire departments around, and I am tired of hearing of us bashed here and on the streets. I am proud of our leadership and of our membership. I would trust my life with anyone in my department. How many of you can say that. I can’t believe the press ran this story of a two firefighters pushing each other. Then for it posted here is real professionalism. I am soooooooo sure that this will be a constructive post. Thanks a lot for posting it!!!!

I've said it in training classes time and time again - the incident will be moved to the back burner by the media if they can find something more "sensational" to report. A conflict between firefighters at a fire is definitely ripe for that.

calhobs, I'm sorry that you feel that your integrity or reputation is being impugned by these posts but WE'RE not the ones creating the news stories. If your fellow members can't keep it in the firehouse, shame on them. Every agency has internal politics and even conflicts but they strive to keep it within the department. Your agency has had a really bad series of articles come out in the media over the past several years - that's not bashing or criticism, that's just a simple observation. Perhaps your frustration should be directed at the people within your organization generating the media coverage.

[Goose 188]

Wow, this is such a joke. You have absoloutely NO CLUE what happened. Regardless of what I think about the situation...aren't threads in the incident workshop supposed to be FACTUAL, PERTINENT INFORMATION?! It is very disappointing to see everyone making ASSUMPTIONS about a brother firefighter. How do you know what this Firefighter's medical history is?

FYI - the Firefighter in question was aquitted of all criminal charges related to the "gasoline incident"...mainly because no one could prove that it even came from the firehouse at all. So why not give a brother Firefighter a break?

"Perhaps he was trying to stand in the way of someone who was trying to help?" Maybe he was kidnapped by aliens too!?!

Why don't we wait until ALL the facts are released...then pass judgement. Stop making assumptions, especially when it comes to a brother Firefighter. This is how rumors get started and reputations get ruined.

But the fact remains that he got into a physical altercation on an emergency scene. Not only does that display a total lack of professionalism and personal restraint, but of all people an emergency responder should know better. Sorry pal, I'm not for cutting these two guys a break. It's as simple as Newton's third law of physics " For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."

[helicopper 1,050]

No....I don't find Chris192's comment as being a bash. I find it to be comical. We even use that same phrase where I work all the time "Don't ever drink the water," when on a scene and things are nuts. Its a tension breaker. Constructive yes...but lets not get nuts, having a sense of humor is a must also. There is nothing constructive to be said here about the incident reported.

Comical, hopefully - sarcastic, without a doubt.

Edited November 28, 2007 by Chris192

[Remember585 815]

It seems like someone with a direct line to the local media is following around the guys & gals from Sleepy Hollow anymore.

An on-scene confrontation isn't new - but actually airing it out in the media seems to be a growing trend.

It's true gang - Big Brother REALLY is watching - be smart out there!

[JM15 386]

Everyone has conflicts especially on a fire scene. BUT I don't think that is the place to get into a physical or even vocal fight. I just shows less proffesionalism wait till you get back to the firehouse to discuss your problems. Also like someone said in this day volunteers in the emergency services are being held to higher scrutiny especially with everything that is going on around our area.

[gpdexplorer 46]

I dont think it was a recent surgery, just a prior surgery. Not sure.

[Goose 188]

But if you read the newspaper article, it states one party shoved the other.

I think your forgetting that it takes two to tango...

[firecapt32 282]

Can any one tell us are they in the same company?? Is one an Officer?? or is it just 2 firefighters with a personal gruge.

Dicipline on the fire ground is an important detail to be concidered-- not knowing the facts we should be carfull when rushing to judgment. the fact remains all firefighters are held to the higher standard no if ands or buts.

If its a fireground situation then it envloves everyone-if its personal take in back to the station.

[calhobs 110]

Its an interdepartmental matter and will not be discussed here or any where else. The incident has been handled by the leadership of SHFD.

[OnTheWheel 43]

I think your forgetting that it takes two to tango...

Im going with 20truck on this, if one person shoved the other person there is no tango, more of a one way thing! Merely a harassment at best (unless there was actually an injury sustained from said shove (rolling eyes), but still shouldnt be done on a fire scene, never! The criminal charges shouldn't even come into play, talk about it at a meeting or in the bay!