Is EMS required for HS football games?

[ex-commish 490]

I was at Haldane ( Cold Spring) High School today to watch my son play football and noticed two ambulances there standing by for the game. I know that it is required to have ems at the games but do the VAC's that stand by at games get reimbursed for the time spent there? Are these rigs OOS throughout the duration of the game?

[MoFire390 118]

Here in cortlandt When we take a rig to a football game the rig is in service. usually its the second or third due rig. so if a call does come in and does not get covered we can respond with a full crew. there is also usually a DR or and emt/off duty paramedic and the trainer at the games as well.

[IzzyEng4 427]

When dispatching for C-MED in New Haven, any ambulance conducting a stand-by was committed to the stand-by and could not be pulled for another call. If the ambulance was pulled, the game would have to stop. I think this is something regulated by the school system and / or the state department of health. I will have to find out who sets the regulation in CT.

[ENG47INE 17]

In Dobbs They will bring both Ambulances and park one off to the side and one inside the park. If they recieve a call the one on the street will go and if they recieve a second call they will call for a M/A ambulance.

[antiquefirelt 994]

Not NY, but here we hire OT guys to man an ambulance for the duration of football games, they are considered fully OOS. If they need to transport from the game a duty staffed crew responds for the duration of the coverage. Similarly, it is required they have a staffed ambulance at the field to play HS football.

[GAW6 66]

If I am not mistaken, Section I does not require an ambulance, just an MD. I believe it is the individual school board's discretion to require an ambulance for the games.

A few years ago, Pleasantville VAC stood by for Westlake H.S. home games. We were given a donation at the end of the season as well as one of the 50/50 raffles were given to us.

Pace U. requested us for this year. We have done it the past 2-years, without getting a dime from them. They were told they we could not do it this year. As far as I am concerned, when they are getting upwards of $40k for tuition, they can hire an ambulance!

[DR104 141]

For a football game to take place at the High School level in NYS there has to be a DR at the game(The funny thing is the Dr dosn't have to be a sports med or even a ER Dr just any MD will do) Also an AED(People trained to use it). I do not know about the ambulance. The game i was at on Saturday the ambulance left the game as a player was down on the field and the Dr and trainer were working on him.. The bus turned on its lights and everybody on the field was thinking it was going pick the kid up, but it left the grounds to go to a MVA( I was told) PD was at the game got on the radio and called for a bus.I was told later that the player dislocated his elbow, and that they put it back in place and splited it. Turned out that one of the staff on the players team was a cop or something b/c he pulled up in an unmarked crown vic with his lights on and took the player to the hospital. So I would say that The ambulance and crew at this game were not out of service for the game.

[mikeinet 37]

I know from being in Syracuse... I was always told that any event over 5,000 people in attendance required a BLS ambulance decidated to the stadium. As previously said, if the ambulance leaves, the event must stop.

That's the only *actual* regulation I know of.

[Danger 160]

I did a few standbys for high school and college football games for a commercial company. The fire district I belong to provides the service for free to the high school in town and it's covered by a BLS ambulance. If there is an injury, a second ambulance transports. The first one never rolls a tire from kick off to final whistle. I imagine if no transporting unit was available, the standby crew would take it and the game would have to stop until the spot was filled. Also, the feeling of the ADs and school officials was that it was required, not just gravy.

Edited September 8, 2008 by Danger

[Guest]

If I am not mistaken, Section I does not require an ambulance, just an MD. I believe it is the individual school board's discretion to require an ambulance for the games.

that is true, i believe high school games need an MD and college games need an ambulance - at least that's how it is with the local high schools and Pace U.

for valhalla ambulance i do the westlake and valhalla high school games and have done almost all of them for the past 3 years and the rigs are always still in service. when i was in pleasantville i also did many games and the ambulance was always still in service. i tell the dispatcher if any 911 call comes in on the campus we are on, to tone out the stand-by crew not the duty crew. there's no need to bother the other crew, since we're already there. and, we have never gotten money from doing the stand-by's. it's a PR event and the people that come up to us asking questions, is the reason why we are there. if they wanted to give us money that's fine, but we won't be saying 'no' for no money. i have recruited some members over the years - also a benefit.

[GAW6 66]

when i was in pleasantville i also did many games and the ambulance was always still in service.

Not when I did the games; the ambulance was dedicated to the game. If we transported an injured player to the ER, the game did not stop. (as I said previously, the MD was required, not the ambulance).

"we have never gotten money from doing the stand-by's" "if they wanted to give us money that's fine, but we won't be saying 'no' for no money"

Of course not, since you bill your patients.

[Guest]

Of course not, since you bill your patients.

nice pun, i actually knew you were going to mention something about the billing process the second i pressed 'post'

but, too bad we didn't recieve money prior to billing process as well.

Edited September 8, 2008 by vacguy

[ex-commish 490]

For a football game to take place at the High School level in NYS there has to be a DR at the game

My next question is is it just for football? My son also wrestles and plays baseball and I have never seen a doctor at any of those games. I am trying to make a case for our school district to have doctors and athletic trainers at every game and practice for all sports both male and female. I see a doctor at every football game but not at the other events.

[COMMANDCHIEF 4]

When dispatching for C-MED in New Haven, any ambulance conducting a stand-by was committed to the stand-by and could not be pulled for another call. If the ambulance was pulled, the game would have to stop. I think this is something regulated by the school system and / or the state department of health. I will have to find out who sets the regulation in CT.

I dont think it would be the Department of Health. Check the Department of Education.

[JRS2817 1]

in Mahopac they have a ambulance and a trainer from school on standby but i don't know if its in service or just in service for the game you would have to ask a Mahopac Falls guy

[MoFire390 118]

My next question is is it just for football? My son also wrestles and plays baseball and I have never seen a doctor at any of those games. I am trying to make a case for our school district to have doctors and athletic trainers at every game and practice for all sports both male and female. I see a doctor at every football game but not at the other events.

It all depends. the high school does have the trainer in the building at the time of the wrestling match; also i have seen ambulances at baseball games when i was playing ball.

[texastom791 31]

Carmel actually just got a trainer last year. I think the ambulance did do stand-by's but not anymore if we get a call for a football player that's injured at the game they tone us out we aren't that far from the high school anyways it's literally two seconds away from the ambulance shed . And when I played for the last three years the nurse was at the games in case somebody got hurt at the varsity games nobody is there for the other levels jv and freshman .

Edited September 9, 2008 by texastom791

[OLDGUY19 6]

Here in so west CT a trainer must be on location at high school events. but I do known it is great PR for your Dept

[ATCff 0]

This will be my fourth year working as an Athletic Trainer for a high school in Westchester. All that is required at a high school football game is one of the three: a MD, EMS, or a ATC (Athletic Trainer). To provide the best care possible I still make sure that our local EMS and an orthopedic MD is there. There is not restriction on what type of MD or EMS level. This type of protection is really only warranted for full contact athletic events like football. The school that I work at does not have a lacrosse team or a hockey team, so I can't really speak to that. But if anyone really wants to know, PM me and I can find out for you. Coaches are required to have CPR with AED and First Aid from the ARC, AHA, or another approved provider. At the college level it is a whole different story. The NCAA requires a certain level of care for each sport game and practice. That can be found under the Sports Medicine section of the NCAA handbook off of their website.

[NWFDMedic 58]

ATCff's post is correct; one of the three is required for high school football: (1) MD, (2) EMS, (3) ATC. Interestingly enough, NCAA football requires a "certified" ambulance to be available to the players in addition to whatever resources are required for the event itself. My service does standby for the Army football games and we are there for on-field coverage while the West Point EMS system takes care of the crowd. I'm sure we would be utilized in an emergency (best for the patient), but our primary coverage is on-field.

I can't speak for the other sports, but NCAA Division 1 hockey has the same requirement. At my college, the local EMS squad provided coverage for the games. If a fan got injured, they would be attended to by on-scene personnel and the "duty" ambulance would respond to the arena to transport unless the patient was critical, then the game was held up and they did a switch (or at least that was the plan... it never happened while I was there).

As far as high school sports are concerned, I've never heard of standby ambulances being requested for hockey in this area, only football. It's kind of odd actually, as hockey is every bit as dangerous as football. I guess that football is more "visible" to the community and you have the additional issue of crowds.

[IzzyEng4 427]

I dont think it would be the Department of Health. Check the Department of Education.

I think you might be right. It's been awhile since I've done a stand-by EMS wise let alone dispatch one. I'll see if Ican find somethign or atleast get pointed in the right direction.

[pjm1733 22]

Carmel actually just got a trainer last year. I think the ambulance did do stand-by's but not anymore if we get a call for a football player that's injured at the game they tone us out we aren't that far from the high school anyways it's literally two seconds away from the ambulance shed . And when I played for the last three years the nurse was at the games in case somebody got hurt at the varsity games nobody is there for the other levels jv and freshman .

Texas Tom I hate to burst your bubble, I can give you the date and time if you wish. But last year at a kent knights vs yorktown game. I Immobilized a 12 year old for over 22 minutes on the field waiting for your ambulance, thats only two seconds away.

Edited September 11, 2008 by pjm1733

[x635 4,066]

In Texas, it's required to at least have an EMT at every game. Then again, HS football down here is a whole 'nother world then up north!

[helicopper 1,050]

In Texas, it's required to at least have an EMT at every game. Then again, HS football down here is a whole 'nother world then up north!

Isn't it a religion down there? I remember passing a "stadium" and asking what college it was and being told it was just a high school...

[helicopper 1,050]

Texas Tom I hate to burst your bubble, I can give you the date and time if you wish. But last year at a kent knights vs yorktown game. I Immobilized a 12 year old for over 22 minutes on the field waiting for your ambulance, thats only two seconds away.

I'm sure it is only two seconds away - if you're sitting on the ramp with a full crew! But the time from tones to drive to the barn to get the rig to respond to the scene adds up VERY quickly.

[mfkap 0]

This will be my fourth year working as an Athletic Trainer for a high school in Westchester. All that is required at a high school football game is one of the three: a MD, EMS, or a ATC (Athletic Trainer). To provide the best care possible I still make sure that our local EMS and an orthopedic MD is there. There is not restriction on what type of MD or EMS level. This type of protection is really only warranted for full contact athletic events like football. The school that I work at does not have a lacrosse team or a hockey team, so I can't really speak to that. But if anyone really wants to know, PM me and I can find out for you. Coaches are required to have CPR with AED and First Aid from the ARC, AHA, or another approved provider. At the college level it is a whole different story. The NCAA requires a certain level of care for each sport game and practice. That can be found under the Sports Medicine section of the NCAA handbook off of their website.

I find it interesting that no one is mentioning the most dangerous sport for females. Not Field Hocky. Not Rugby (although those people are crazy). It is actually cheerleading, but a LOT. And for men in high school, Soccer carries a higher risk of injury than football. I think it is the spectacle of football that has agencies like Dobbs, which can't get 2 buses (or one bus?) out for patients, to have 2 standby units. If this wasn't the case, we would have an ambulance on standby for every soccer game (men and womens) and every cheerleading competition. Maybe we would if they had soccer under the lights. A bus at the game is a EMS culture thing, and as this board has clearly documented for several years now, there are two facts about EMS culture: 1) EMS culture is terrible for EMS (or at least EMS patients); 2) EMS culture isn't going to change anytime soon.

[DOC22 1]

Back in the 70s my father (A MD) was the School District MD for Somers, North Salem and JFK. My brother-in law was an orthopedic surgeon. Back then, and I don't know who set the policy, but one or the other had to be at the football games, and if Somers and JFK were both home, each one took a game. North Salem didn't have a football team.

[Shantz02 0]

As an Ice Hockey official, I can tell you for fact that there is only a single EMT present at High School games. Some schools do have trainers that are also there, but I have never seen an ambulance on stand by.

[Guest]

I know at Arlington High School for football games they have an ambulance, as to what service it is, I'm not sure. When i go next time i'll update.

[ex-commish 490]

Yesterday we had an ortho surgeon, physical therapist, and a bus. We also beat Woodlands 36-6. What a game