Automatic License Plate Reader question

[JM15 386]

So the Myth is busted?

[NWFDMedic 58]

I've heard stories about people getting tickets for speeding between ez pass readers. Is this true or just an urban legend? Anyone?

They won't give you speeding tickets, but they will suspend your ez-pass if you go through toll barriers too fast.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Anyone ever watch that show "Parking Wars" on A&E where the Phily Parking Authority has the vans with 2 license plate readers? Pretty cool technology to see in use. They scan ALOT of plates VERY quickly. Plus, that show is just hilarious...

[Guest]

ALPR Technology is pretty amazing. There are several different vendors out there and you can get some good systems for under $5,000, but that would be a color camera system. Although not as good as infra-red at night, they do work well as long as there is some sort of ambient lighting, like headlights. Check out www.platescan.com for some good inforation. In addition to Elsag, PlateScan is also providing systems to NJ and NY police departments. If you have ever seen the show on A&E, "Jacked", those are PlateScan systems. They have the infrared systems too, but also have several color camera systems available that make them attractive to smaller agencies, detective units and task forces. A 4 camera ALPR system on a squad car is capable of reading 4,000 plates an hour. It checks them for wanted/stolen/BOLO/Amber Alert/Sex Offender in under a second. If the system HITS on a plate, it lets the officer know with an audible alert!

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Huh? What do you mean?

What I mean is that the statement "if have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear" is nothing more than police propaganda/mind tricks in-order to have suspects/members of the public to wave their constitutional rights. The right being waved is the forth amendment, the right against unusual search and seizure.

The forth amendment is designed to protect American citizens from the government going in with little or no evidence from searching and seizing property in search of evidence without probable cause. The above statement implies that one should wave their rights because they have nothing to hide, which then completely ignores the 4th Amendment. While I know trickery and twisting words are part of police work, all it takes is a police officer to exploit the ignorance of one member of society who thinks "they have nothing to hide" when they do and dont know it and someone goes to jail.

For the record, an officer quoted "if you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear" to me when asking to search my person and my belongings and I promptly told him to get a warrant otherwise I was leaving and you know what, I left and the officer was stuck with a nothing but a waste of his own time.

[Just a guy 493]

the reader does scan every plate it sees and it does record them... like one of the posters said, you have NO expectation of privacy in public and your plates are New York State Property. Let's remember driving is a priviledge not a RIGHT .... I also agree with the above posters who said if you have nothing to hide then don't worry about it.... and if you have a real problem with it then either walk or buy a bicycle. Maybe in New Windsor crime isn't that much of a problem but down here it is but i bet if you ask the cops in newburgh or middletown they would welcome a tool like this....

[JM15 386]

What I mean is that the statement "if have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear" is nothing more than police propaganda/mind tricks in-order to have suspects/members of the public to wave their constitutional rights. The right being waved is the forth amendment, the right against unusual search and seizure.

The forth amendment is designed to protect American citizens from the government going in with little or no evidence from searching and seizing property in search of evidence without probable cause. The above statement implies that one should wave their rights because they have nothing to hide, which then completely ignores the 4th Amendment. While I know trickery and twisting words are part of police work, all it takes is a police officer to exploit the ignorance of one member of society who thinks "they have nothing to hide" when they do and dont know it and someone goes to jail.

For the record, an officer quoted "if you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear" to me when asking to search my person and my belongings and I promptly told him to get a warrant otherwise I was leaving and you know what, I left and the officer was stuck with a nothing but a waste of his own time.

I agree with you. In this day and age a police officer can trick you in so many ways. I think that our generation was brought up in a society with more legal teaching. In high school I had to take a criminal law class, and now in college I am minoring in criminal justice. Legalities of laws like this have peaked my interest lately, mainly laws regarding internal possesion of alcohol. I believe that I am a strict interpreter of the Constitution.

BTW thanks for the Link Chris, definatly a good read if anyone is interested.

Edited February 8, 2009 by JM15

[50-65 205]

Kind of reminds me of the saying, "I love my country, but I fear my government." And for those who say you have nothing to fear, the quote "You can trust the government, just ask any Indian" (i.e. Native American for you PC type).

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

We have an LPR and I kinda like it. I find it is easier to be stationary. The other day there was an AMBER ALERT I think from upstate and we manually programmed the plate of the suspect veh into the database. I don't think it is big brother. As others have said, if you haven't done anything wrong, then you don't have anything to worry about.

[Just a guy 493]

not to get off topic here but i have seen a few posts that disturb me. to the posters here that are volunteer firemen and are not cops, you are entitled to your opinion but you sound pretty stupid commenting on police procedure and how we do our jobs when you now NOTHING about it. From you locations on your profiles you guys live where crime really isn't a problem but here in the real world cops have to use every tool in our arsenal to get the job done which most times isn't the easiest task because liberal morons who worry about civil rights and the 4th amendment make our job more difficult than it already is.

I'm sure this will be deleted by the admin or i will catch hell from the other posters for this but I think it had to be said.

[Guest]

I agree with you Crime Cop. What everyone needs to understand is that Automatic License Plate Recognition (ALPR) systems are JUST a tool for law enforcement. They are not doing anything that hasn't been done since the invention of the automobile and when that first vehicle was stolen. Law enforcement has always checked motor numbers (back before 1954), VIN numbers and registrations, etc. They use to do it manually at first, then over the radio, then later through their MDC or MDT and now the cameras will do it for them. Yes, the ALPR systems remember where the vehicle was seen, but then again, so did the officer when he was using the more primitive systems. Now it is just all computerized.

[redmack 0]

What I mean is that the statement "if have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear" is nothing more than police propaganda/mind tricks in-order to have suspects/members of the public to wave their constitutional rights. The right being waved is the forth amendment, the right against unusual search and seizure.

The forth amendment is designed to protect American citizens from the government going in with little or no evidence from searching and seizing property in search of evidence without probable cause. The above statement implies that one should wave their rights because they have nothing to hide, which then completely ignores the 4th Amendment. While I know trickery and twisting words are part of police work, all it takes is a police officer to exploit the ignorance of one member of society who thinks "they have nothing to hide" when they do and dont know it and someone goes to jail.

For the record, an officer quoted "if you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear" to me when asking to search my person and my belongings and I promptly told him to get a warrant otherwise I was leaving and you know what, I left and the officer was stuck with a nothing but a waste of his own time.

Come on...........I am sure you said that to the Officer! Why would the Officer be asking to search you and your belongings in the first place? I don't remember attending that class in the Police Academy (police propaganda/ mind tricks), and it's the fourth amendment which protects against unreasonable searches and seizures NOT unusual ones!

[EFFD4091-MLSS emt 13]

Well first and foremost look at the posters ages who are trying to argue about being tricked... They have little experience, I am not saying I have been through it all but, I have had my fair share. I personally think the ALPR are a great tool. I also now that it is upon the officer to go and make a move on the "vehicle." At one point last year I think I had a 3 day point of being unregistered. As a NYSP drove through the gas station my car caught an alarm. He simply warned me at that point and I had it fixed on that following Monday. I asked if it would be a problem that he didnt do anything bout it and he said no it was unsafe to turna around and catch the vehicle. now again that is my experiance with NYSP that I knew vey well, considering I used to service all the NYSP Trooper Vehicles, and some PV as well. As far as logging where the location and time of where the plate was read, anyone think that feature was designed so as when your car is stolen at 3 am and you don't wake up till 10a, the plate reader can match a last known location. I think that would be some valuable info esp if that is where it is later found, because the plate reader saw it on Elm street at 5a, and no flags/alarms were generated at that time because it wasn't reported stolen. It is not to "track everones move" but be able to recognize any vehicles that may later be known to have been involved in a crime....

[helicopper 1,050]

There have been some markedly anti-police posts in this thread and on two grounds I have to call "foul".

The first is the violation of forum rules about derogatory comments directed at other members.

The second is the fact that police officers swear an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States and do so in a quite personal and dangerous way. To assert that they are all corrupt and/or incompetent is an inappropriate generalization and categorically untrue. Police officers literally risk their lives to fulfill their oath and are monitored, supervised, second-guessed, and challenged on a daily basis.

This thread is about automated license plate readers that can scan license plates on public highways and identify stolen, wanted, or otherwise noteworthy vehicles. The fourth amendment doesn't apply to a camera looking at the State's license plate on your car.

"Trickery" may be used by the police in some cases but those tactics are going to be reviewed by the courts, the lawyers, and ultimately if the tricks were not Constitutionally sound, the results will be excluded from the proceedings.

If you want to debate Constitutional issues, fine. But please refrain from making derogatory remarks about the few people in this society who have actually sworn an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution and do so under the most adverse conditions. There are of course bad apples and cases where mistakes are made but those are not the majority.

So, if you'd like to point out your legal prowess and highlight your superiority over a police officer you encountered, fine, just do it without painting them all with the same brush.

[INIT915 1,119]

At one point last year I think I had a 3 day point of being unregistered. As a NYSP drove through the gas station my car caught an alarm. He simply warned me at that point and I had it fixed on that following Monday. I asked if it would be a problem that he didnt do anything bout it and he said no it was unsafe to turna around and catch the vehicle.

Was your Registration "Expired" or "Suspended"? The NYSP LPR's do not hit on expired registrations. Also, an interesting note, the early models we bought did not handle out of state plates, while the new software we use, can differentiate.

And, as some of the other posters pointed out, your vehicle is in the public domain, therefore you waive your claim of privacy, and furthermore, your plates are the property of the New York State Department of Motor Vehicles, therefore, they have standing to even dispute the practice of having the information stored.

[Oswegowind 17]

Also, an interesting note, the early models we bought did not handle out of state plates, while the new software we use, can differentiate.

I didn't know they could differentiate that now...A while back the Yonkers 3rd pct had a detail and they got a hit on a stolen car. One of the officers on the detail was broadcasting the description, of the car he saw, and being the dispatcher covering the detail I informed him that it didn't match the stolen cars description. Later we located the car, Ohio license plate, not stolen just same letter number combo of 1 active in NYS. A bit of confusion, but no one was hurt, thankfully. When I met up with a friend a few weeks ago using the new "313" car I didn't notice the difference in states, but it was only a 5 minute thing so we may not have seen any out of state cars. We were at S Bdwy/Radford and the thing was making more noise than a rock concert...lol

[INIT915 1,119]

I didn't know they could differentiate that now...A while back the Yonkers 3rd pct had a detail and they got a hit on a stolen car. One of the officers on the detail was broadcasting the description, of the car he saw, and being the dispatcher covering the detail I informed him that it didn't match the stolen cars description. Later we located the car, Ohio license plate, not stolen just same letter number combo of 1 active in NYS. A bit of confusion, but no one was hurt, thankfully. When I met up with a friend a few weeks ago using the new "313" car I didn't notice the difference in states, but it was only a 5 minute thing so we may not have seen any out of state cars. We were at S Bdwy/Radford and the thing was making more noise than a rock concert...lol

Perhaps I could have been more clear. The new units we use will read the plate and compare the sequence of digits against hits from any state which has entered a File 1 matching it.

[EFFD4091-MLSS emt 13]

Was your Registration "Expired" or "Suspended"? The NYSP LPR's do not hit on expired registrations. Also, an interesting note, the early models we bought did not handle out of state plates, while the new software we use, can differentiate.

And, as some of the other posters pointed out, your vehicle is in the public domain, therefore you waive your claim of privacy, and furthermore, your plates are the property of the New York State Department of Motor Vehicles, therefore, they have standing to even dispute the practice of having the information stored.

Sry meant Suspended for Ins. Lapse had to pay $7 a day i think or w.e. it is....

[INIT915 1,119]

Sry meant Suspended for Ins. Lapse had to pay $7 a day i think or w.e. it is....

I figured. That makes more sense. With Insurance Lapses, you can now have valid insurance, but the Suspension holds until you satisfy DMV's Civil Penalty.

[Oswegowind 17]

They put a LPR on 313 car?

Yes, on the trunk.

[robert benz 344]

What I mean is that the statement "if have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear" is nothing more than police propaganda/mind tricks in-order to have suspects/members of the public to wave their constitutional rights. The right being waved is the forth amendment, the right against unusual search and seizure.

The forth amendment is designed to protect American citizens from the government going in with little or no evidence from searching and seizing property in search of evidence without probable cause. The above statement implies that one should wave their rights because they have nothing to hide, which then completely ignores the 4th Amendment. While I know trickery and twisting words are part of police work, all it takes is a police officer to exploit the ignorance of one member of society who thinks "they have nothing to hide" when they do and dont know it and someone goes to jail.

For the record, an officer quoted "if you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear" to me when asking to search my person and my belongings and I promptly told him to get a warrant otherwise I was leaving and you know what, I left and the officer was stuck with a nothing but a waste of his own time.

wow when i was that age you never mouthed off to the police different world we live in now

[STAT213 332]

Statements along the lines of "you have nothing to fear" are exactly why the fourth amendment exists. While I respect my law enforcement brethren to a degree, many of you take on the idea that everyone is guilty of something. This leads to statements such as the few above, which to me are truly frightening. If you want to search me, get a warrant. These are the rules, and you must play by them. Its what keeps us from becoming a police state.

[helicopper 1,050]

Statements along the lines of "you have nothing to fear" are exactly why the fourth amendment exists. While I respect my law enforcement brethren to a degree, many of you take on the idea that everyone is guilty of something. This leads to statements such as the few above, which to me are truly frightening. If you want to search me, get a warrant. These are the rules, and you must play by them. Its what keeps us from becoming a police state.

Only to a degree???

Yes, there are rules and there are also exceptions to the search warrant requirement of the fourth amendment. One is that a person can consent to a search if he or she so chooses. This is probably what everyone here is referencing with these anecdotes about being asked to submit to a search. If you allow a search, the chips fall where they may. Some interesting exchanges take place during an investigation leading up to a consent search or an arrest pending a warrant, those are the rules of the game and that's how it's played. That doesn't make it a police state and it doesn't give criminals carte blanche.

You know what they say, if you walk up to enough people and ask them for something 9 times out of 10 you'll get told NO, but one time you'll get what you want. What's the difference here?

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Being a cop is a hard job, and I have the up-most respect for those who decide that they want to risk life and limb defending me, my family and those around me from dangers in my community. With that being said, I can not place 100% faith or trust in the government or the police. I have seen it too often fail those who it is designed to protect and extend its reach beyond the scope legally allowed by law. I will not stand for a violation of my rights or the rights of others. Too often in this country under reactionists and hawks who have defined policy for this country for longer than I have been alive, the privacy and the rights of average Americans has been ignored or bent to fit what they feel will make this country safe even it is illegal. (Warrent-less wire-tapping for example). A great American once said "they who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." that man was Benjamin Franklin. From these incidents I, like many of my generation, for example JM15 it seems, have little or no faith, trust in those who "job" it is keeping us safe. Nor should we with the failure of those we give power and their flagrant abuse of laws and rights

My incident with the officer who wanted to search me was based the presumed belief by the particular officer who thought that every teenager out after 11PM has felonious amount of drugs and is intoxicated. I said he needed to A. prove to me he had probable cause B. that I failed a field sobriety test in order for him to gain to right to conduct a search. I passed the test and he could not convince me that he had any cause what so ever so I left, Im sure anyone here would have done the same thing.

And for those of who you care, I should be no more informed about my rights and willing to enact my rights than the average American citizen. It is a shame more people are not aware of their rights or ignore their own rights. Maybe it would be good for those parties involved if this was not the case so things were done correctly and not out of convenience and corruption. I am no more ignorant than I am overly informed and passionate.

It goes without saying, QTIP because I don't and neither should you......

Edited February 11, 2009 by bvfdjc316

[Guest paramedico987]

Metro London is ringed by these cameras in fixed locations to track vehicles and identify patterns that would be indicators of criminal activity and/or terrorism. The data is used to protect everyone working in this high profile area and reduce the likelihood of terrorist bombings like the Manchester truck bomb. The Brits swear by it.

Even if it is recording every license plate what civil liberties are being infringed upon?

I'm actually a big fan of the cameras...

IMPORTANT TO NOTE:

***The rights/civil liberties of man are inherent. While some are mentioned, it should never be construed that one has only the rights enumerated in the constitution.***

The right to privacy is just one such right. Deliberately tracking the movements of vehicles would clearly be wrong, which is why the government doesn't openly engage in such conduct. The clear exception here is that this system semi-automatically identifies those who are KNOWN to be in violation of VTL statutes.

The system simply does what a LEO can do, reading a plate and running it in NYSPIN, but much faster.

[helicopper 1,050]

I'm actually a big fan of the cameras...

IMPORTANT TO NOTE:

***The rights/civil liberties of man are inherent. While some are mentioned, it should never be construed that one has only the rights enumerated in the constitution.***

The right to privacy is just one such right. Deliberately tracking the movements of vehicles would clearly be wrong, which is why the government doesn't openly engage in such conduct. The clear exception here is that this system semi-automatically identifies those who are KNOWN to be in violation of VTL statutes.

The system simply does what a LEO can do, reading a plate and running it in NYSPIN, but much faster.

This is being done by the government here in the US in sensitive locations, around critical infrastructure, and even in lower Manhattan. There is no expectation of privacy on a public roadway (numerous court cases had established this). I understand your concern about tracking people but this is only at certain select locations.

E-Zpass is more of a tracker than plate cameras will ever be but everyone installed that in their cars voluntarily.

[OoO 24]

This is being done by the government here in the US in sensitive locations, around critical infrastructure, and even in lower Manhattan. There is no expectation of privacy on a public roadway (numerous court cases had established this). I understand your concern about tracking people but this is only at certain select locations.

E-Zpass is more of a tracker than plate cameras will ever be but everyone installed that in their cars voluntarily.

Exactly, E-Zpasses are used voluntarily and people can choose to either take them down or remove them if they do not want to be tracked. The same cannot be said with your license plate.

[kevinrichardeaton 11]

ANPR is in widescale use in the UK most police cars have it its also linked into the Police national computer so if theres no tax,licence, driver is disqualifed or on another database it pings up on the screen

I think i'm right in saying certain areas have CCTV linked inot the database

[ajsbear 11]

EZ Pass or similar devices used around the country cannot be used for anything other than to pay tolls. Because of the privacy laws around financial issues it is a financial device.

[Guest]

personally i am not a fan of the plate reader, its a great concept but needs some kinks worked out. some of my friends hav gotten pulled over b.c it said their registation has been expired when it hasnt and they couldnt drive home and need to get their car towed.