Kingston’s new two-driver fire truck is nothing new

[BFD1054 1,552]

Link to Mid Hudson News article;

 

http://midhudsonnews.com/News/2016/October/03/King_new_FT-03Oct16.html

 

 

 

Side note; I personally don't care for the last sentence of the article which refers to the professional firefighters in Kingston as "paid drivers." 

But, I suppose that's the media for ya...

[fdalumnus 165]

reporters should get their facts straight before writing an article. 

 

paid driver ? want one, go to the cab stand. its an archaic term, used by, heck, don't want to even go there.

 

glad the brothers got the rig they wanted and needed. regarding middletown, the volunteers stormed the city council meeting wanting another tiller. the city fathers went the rear mount route, citing cost differences, and the real reason, to be able to cut four jobs. most of the volunteers were against that also. 

 

give me a tda anytime.

[201/65 94]

12 hours ago, fdalumnus said:

 regarding middletown, the volunteers stormed the city council meeting wanting another tiller. the city fathers went the rear mount route, citing cost differences, and the real reason, to be able to cut four jobs. most of the volunteers were against that also. 

 

give me a tda anytime.

 

Trust me when I say there was no storming of city hall by the volunteers.

 

In fact, they had a rear mount aerial specification completed which was proposed by a councilman who was a former chief from Truck 1 and chaired the apparatus committee. In exchange they were able to select their manufacturer of choice, regardless of the price (somewhere in the area of $170k high bid).

Edited October 4, 2016 by 201/65

[AFS1970 504]

Paid Driver is a historical term, nothing more nothing less. Nobody really thinks teamsters still work with horses do they?

[fdalumnus 165]

3 hours ago, 201/65 said:

 

Trust me when I say there was no storming of city hall by the volunteers.

 

In fact, they had a rear mount aerial specification completed which was proposed by a councilman who was a former chief from Truck 1 and chaired the apparatus committee. In exchange they were able to select their manufacturer of choice, regardless of the price (somewhere in the area of $170k high bid).

 

Just going by the word of some ex-chiefs.

2 hours ago, AFS1970 said:

Paid Driver is a historical term, nothing more nothing less. Nobody really thinks teamsters still work with horses do they?

 

Alan,

In the career sector, its taken as an insult, like calling a volunteer a volunqueer. I'm not looking for a debate on this, do anybody really think a so called paid driver just drives a rig to a call ?

Enough said.

Edited October 4, 2016 by fdalumnus

[SECTMB 612]

Some departments still refer to the driver as a chauffeur or an engineer though neither is driving a limo or a train.  No need to be insulted, its just terminology.  The people you want to know the difference, do.

[fdalumnus 165]

We had a mayor publicly call us "A bunch of glorified truck drivers" when we were negotiating a new collective bargaining agreement. He also stated in the newspaper article that we "just drive the trucks to the fire, the volunteers fight the fire." We kicked his butt in arbitration. His motives (I think) were to divide the career and volunteer members. Didn't work.  But the public, unfortunately, thought otherwise till we educated them on how our department worked. But that's ancient history.

Edited October 5, 2016 by fdalumnus

[SECTMB 612]

1 hour ago, fdalumnus said:

We had a mayor publicly call us "A bunch of glorified truck drivers" when we were negotiating a new collective bargaining agreement. He also stated in the newspaper article that we "just drive the trucks to the fire, the volunteers fight the fire." We kicked his butt in arbitration. His motives (I think) were to divide the career and volunteer members. Didn't work.  But the public, unfortunately, thought otherwise till we educated them on how our department worked. But that's ancient history.

 

First you have to get the apparatus to the scene quickly and efficiently. Position it properly, secure your water source, feed numerous lines at different pressures and volumes, proportion foam additives, continually monitor all those lines, communications, equipment leaving the truck, some with electrical or hydraulic lines connected to the truck, etc. etc.  That 'glorified driver' is like a conductor for a Philharmonic Orchestra.

[dwcfireman 656]

"Two-driver fire truck."  I guess the reporter really knows what the T and D stand for in TDA! hahaha

 

I find it a bit funny when people are surprised that a TDA requires two drivers, but it is absolutely awesome what the rig can pull of when it needs to make those tight turns.  Even better, those two "paid drivers" also happen to be firefighters, so once the rig is placed and the stick is up, they go to work!  Amazing how that works!

[AndyC3J 190]

Why did they say Middletown's tiller got "scrapped"?   It is still very much alive and well (privately owned).....and they still don't have enough manpower to keep all seven rigs in service 24/7, but that's another story for another time.  

 

How hard would it have been to put a picture of the actual Kingston rig that's being replaced, rather than a stock photo of an unmarked Philadelphia rig?    Gotta love the media.   

[suffernH&Lbuff 117]

Kingston's new TDA Spec Drawings 

[dwcfireman 656]

Random question...As someone that has never driven a TDA from either seat, how difficult is it to drive from the tiller position?  What is the visibility like?  Is it difficult to maintain opposite direction from the cab?  What's the experience like?

[KJ8806 44]

On 10/4/2016 at 5:22 PM, SECTMB said:

Some departments still refer to the driver as a chauffeur or an engineer though neither is driving a limo or a train.  No need to be insulted, its just terminology.  The people you want to know the difference, do.

Growing up In the fire service I always knew the career firefighters as paid drivers they drove the apparatus to fires etc and never went into buildings now they do guess its due to lack of manpower on scenes

Edited October 6, 2016 by KJ8806

[fdalumnus 165]

1 hour ago, KJ8806 said:

Growing up In the fire service I always knew the career firefighters as paid drivers they drove the apparatus to fires etc and never went into buildings now they do guess its due to lack of manpower on scenes

 

Again,

 

The fire service has changed. What you were brought up with is not the way things are now.  Any engine drive or truck chauffer, paid or volunteer, knows the duties.( I hope) First and foremost,search and rescue. If there are plenty of able bodied responders, the chauffer, engineer, MPO, whatever you want to call them, stays and operates the rig with other responsibilities associated with his or her tasks. 

 

Back to the City of Kingston FD; theoretically a combination department, in reality, only five or six volunteers. That's the way things are, no fault implied on the vollies. Again, if you think otherwise, well, go with the "100 years of progress, held back by 100 years of tradition." I stated before, I'm not looking for a debate. I just think its incorrest to refer to someone a term that they are not.

 

Lets get back to original topic. The dept is getting the proper apparatus for their response area. In addition, they will now have a spare TDA, making things better when the new one goes out of service. 

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

I'm tired

 

[KJ8806 44]

me too i tryed to make a comment and it gets twisted around its the same old stories on this fourm monday morning quartering backing OMG 

[fdalumnus 165]

1 hour ago, PCFD ENG58 said:

I'm tired

 

 

And all this time I thought you were RE-tired

[dwcfireman 656]

18 hours ago, KJ8806 said:

me too i tryed to make a comment and it gets twisted around its the same old stories on this fourm monday morning quartering backing OMG 

 

Well, then I'll give you something different!

 

On 10/6/2016 at 8:22 AM, KJ8806 said:

Growing up In the fire service I always knew the career firefighters as paid drivers they drove the apparatus to fires etc and never went into buildings now they do guess its due to lack of manpower on scenes

 

My hometown is a good example.  In 2001 the village decided to hire a paid driver/EMT.  That person (though it has changed hands throughout the years) works Monday through Friday, 0800 to 1600, to make sure the first due gets out the door.  This is the vary definition of a paid driver/chauffeur/MPO/etc.  This position never, EVER, goes inside of a burning building.  I give this example because there are MANY suburban and rural departments that have gone this route in recent times because of a shortage of volunteers during normal business hours (9 to 5 jobs).  The paid driver concept gets the rig out the door with at least a handful of volunteers to respond to alarms.  In essence, this is where a lot of people get the idea of paid firefighters being paid drivers rather than being called firefighters, and the general public thinks that this is normal (again, this is more in the outer suburbs and rural areas).

 

Now, let's move towards major cities, like NYC, Atlanta, Dallas, or Fargo.  The closer you get to major cities, the more paid firefighters you see.  Suburban firefighters tend to be in combination departments or small paid departments.  However, these guys and gals are working in the area that separates the major paid city departments and the outlaying volunteers with paid drivers.  So, now these firefighters, who have been through the academy and are fully certified, are thought of by the public as just drivers and not firefighters.  MAJOR misconception.

 

Here's the difference.  A paid DRIVER is a person who is hired by a department with the SOLE PURPOSE of driving and operating the apparatus.  A FIREFIGHTER is a person hired to drive/operate the apparatus AND conduct all other fireground activities.  Yes, this definition can be contested that a paid driver is in fact a firefighter, but the true definition will actually falls under the job title and job description as laid out by the hiring municipality.  THEREFORE, and technically speaking, every body that comments on the difference here is wrong because the difference falls on individual situations of individual municipalities hiring specifically detailed positions for individual situations.  Yes, we are all wrong on the definition issue, including myself (because my definition is based on my experience and no one elses').

 

As for the original content of the thread, Good Luck to Kingston with their new TDA!