efdcapt115

Cap, your recollection of the events of that day is almost my recollection to the letter. I was duty DC, so I stayed back. We too were loading up with EMS supplies, and fueling up, and off-duty guys coming in with their own sawzalls and pry bars in anticipation of a major rescue effort that never happened. My Capt that went to 233rd St recounts the same occurrences as you. Be it known, also, that you and I have never discussed this before, but the recollections are still vivid, and the same story line.
Unfortunately the heroism of the 343 has been forgotten today by most Americans. When I half-mast my flag on Sept 11, I am now asked what's the half-mast for. A hundred years from now the 343 will only be remembered by future Firefighters, and then, only if we don't let our Brotherhood go by the wayside.

GREAT QUESTION!
NFPA standards are considered consencus standards. That means they must be "accepted" by some level of government to become law.
The level of government can be Federal, State, or Local and can be "accepted" by an of the 3 branches: executive, legislative or judicial.
Many NFPA standards for building construction have been accepted or mandated by NYS Codes Div. (state executive) making them law.
Turnout gear NFPA standards are set by FED OSHA (& NYS PESH) (both executive, fed & state)
Bailout rope NFPA standards were mandated by NYS Legislative and enforced by NYS executive.
The NYS courts have "accepted" most if not all consencus standards, unless a law supercedes it.
Now to the heart of your question:
NFPA 1403 has been accepted by NYS OFPC (executive) and turned into state law. Allowing it to be used in the courts.
NFPA 1710 has not been accepted by any state as a standard. It is slowly starting to crop up in civil litigation. Once it hits the NY courts during civil liability it most likely will be accepted by the courts, unless the defendant (the FD or municipality) can prove they were following a comperable consencus standard (there are none).
NYS law does not allow career firefighters to sue their employeers for injury or death and that is extended to cover thier families.
Who is the most likely plantif? A civilian who has a fire loss, an insurance company that wants to be covered for its loss, or a firefighter from another community who is hurt going mutual aid into an under staffed dept? I dont know, but at some point I suspect some smart lawyer will figure out its worth some bucks, until then municipalities will continue the gamble that they are saving $$$.

Our rig roles with a qualified driver at least, with qualified personnel in tow, but more often than not with an interior qualified FF in the shotgun seat, and since we do not have cabs that fit more than two there is usually a trail of pov's with qualified members meeting up at the other departments barn.
Typically the requested departments OIC will decide staffing unless something specific is requested from the home department.

Great news for NRFD-I am sure that the cuts projected were not voluntarily given to the city by the Fire Chief unlike a neighboring dept that proposed demoting 9 officer positions to butter his own bread! Real fire service leaders don't cut! Especially when it took hard work from previous Chiefs and union leaders to bring the staffing up for the past 25+ years and you are one of the busiest departments in the region! Happy New year to all!

The recent post about NIMS compliance which referred to the tragic LOD's in Manlius, NY, has spurred me to post this topic concerning one of the most cardinal rules of Firefighting which is often ignored with tragic consequences:
If You Can't See Where You Are About To Place Your Foot.......
CRAWL!!
Inside a fire building, on the roof, even in the street, crawl when you can't see your feet, regardless of the heat conditions. If you are crawling, you will move more quickly and safely because you won't have to worry about stepping into a hole or shaft, or tripping over unseen obstacles. Many Firefighters are seriously injured and killed every year because of trips or falls that would not have happened if they were crawling instead of walking.
P.S. What you are looking for (fire victims) are more easily found (bumped into) when crawling, and what is trying to kill you (heat, smoke, flashover) is more easily avoided when crawling.
P.S.S. Don't forget to continually monitor conditions at the ceiling for signs of flashover.
* Of course, the above information will not receive nearly as much attention as posts on the latest parade or new shiny apparatus, but hopefully it will make a positive difference for some of you. Qtip...

This incident really concerns me. I cannot recall ever hearing or reading of an incident of this type; an exploding dumpster that killed a firefighter. We've all seen BLEVEs in our time. I also recall one incident where firefighters were cutting open the side of a Silo with a partner saw, hosing down the blade to prevent sparks when the particulate matter inside the silo exploded, blowing the cut section out and killing a firefighter.
But this incident is unique. Naturally with hindsight it's easy to say the department involved should have been aware of the occupancy; an aluminum sand casting plant, that should have raised red flags with regard to the contents of the dumpster.
Do you know the industrial sites within your response area; what they manufacture, and what they would be disposing of as a biproduct of their manufacturing? Sure if you have a furniture plant in your district you would be aware of the fire load and chemical hazards within the plant, but how many of us have the awareness to think that the disposal areas outside the plant could be time-bombs just waiting for water to be added to create an explosion hazard?
In my time, the thing that most concerned me was auto-exposure from a dumpster to the structure itself. I mostly thought if the contents contained something dangerous it would be latex paint cans, or possibly spray paint. We had numerous dumpster fires, and pulled the engine close enough to extinguish the fire with a 100' trash line. But now, after this, I think I wouldn't do it anymore.
What about a gasoline can in the dumpster, like Bill pointed out? Or a discarded propane tank, that somebody just dropped in the garbage in the dark of night?
I really think this incident should be given GREAT attention by all fire departments. The NIOSH report should be poured over by everyone. And immediately, ALL dumpster fires should be approached as if they are ALL capable of exploding, and causing death or injury to firefighters.
How about this; if there is no exposure issue with a burning dumpster, why not just automatically create a hot-zone, and do not attempt to extinguish it? I mean, what are we actually "saving" anyway? A dumpster? Certainly not the contents. IMHO, let it burn out, and stay away.
This fatal incident should be given high priority and put all departments on notice to NOT continue business as usual. Dumpsters have become EXTREMELY hazardous, and ALL dumpster fires should be treated as haz-mat incidents from now on. For God sake, this thing went off like an IED!

This incident really concerns me. I cannot recall ever hearing or reading of an incident of this type; an exploding dumpster that killed a firefighter. We've all seen BLEVEs in our time. I also recall one incident where firefighters were cutting open the side of a Silo with a partner saw, hosing down the blade to prevent sparks when the particulate matter inside the silo exploded, blowing the cut section out and killing a firefighter.
But this incident is unique. Naturally with hindsight it's easy to say the department involved should have been aware of the occupancy; an aluminum sand casting plant, that should have raised red flags with regard to the contents of the dumpster.
Do you know the industrial sites within your response area; what they manufacture, and what they would be disposing of as a biproduct of their manufacturing? Sure if you have a furniture plant in your district you would be aware of the fire load and chemical hazards within the plant, but how many of us have the awareness to think that the disposal areas outside the plant could be time-bombs just waiting for water to be added to create an explosion hazard?
In my time, the thing that most concerned me was auto-exposure from a dumpster to the structure itself. I mostly thought if the contents contained something dangerous it would be latex paint cans, or possibly spray paint. We had numerous dumpster fires, and pulled the engine close enough to extinguish the fire with a 100' trash line. But now, after this, I think I wouldn't do it anymore.
What about a gasoline can in the dumpster, like Bill pointed out? Or a discarded propane tank, that somebody just dropped in the garbage in the dark of night?
I really think this incident should be given GREAT attention by all fire departments. The NIOSH report should be poured over by everyone. And immediately, ALL dumpster fires should be approached as if they are ALL capable of exploding, and causing death or injury to firefighters.
How about this; if there is no exposure issue with a burning dumpster, why not just automatically create a hot-zone, and do not attempt to extinguish it? I mean, what are we actually "saving" anyway? A dumpster? Certainly not the contents. IMHO, let it burn out, and stay away.
This fatal incident should be given high priority and put all departments on notice to NOT continue business as usual. Dumpsters have become EXTREMELY hazardous, and ALL dumpster fires should be treated as haz-mat incidents from now on. For God sake, this thing went off like an IED!

It all depends on what you plan on doing with it. You need to make sure you have a "plan" if you are going to make the investment with the technology. Will it be integrating with CAD/dispatch? GPS enabled? Security considerations also need to be taken into consideration. Just mounting a computer in a truck with no software or shortcuts is not very useful. You also need to make sure you have someone keeping the computer updated/current. You also need to consider the type of computer and the use it will get. A Panasonic Toughbook (or similiar) will cost $4,000 plus. The newer CF30 computers also have an integrated modem (Gobi). I would also check with your State to see if you can get on a State contract (Verizon, AT&T, etc.)
Before you select a Wireless carrier, I would check the signal strength in your rig. I would be sure to mount an external antenna given the amount of material that will be surrounding the cab of the truck/computer.

CHEMICAL AND PHYSICAL PROPERTIES: AL
* Physical data
1. Atomic weight: 26.98
2. Boiling point (at 760 mm Hg): 2327 degrees C (4221 degrees F)
3. Specific gravity: 2.70 at 4 degrees C (39 degrees F)
4. Vapor density: Data not available.
5. Melting point: 660 degrees C (1220 degrees F)
6. Vapor pressure at 1284 degrees C (2343 degrees F): 1 mm Hg
7. Solubility: Insoluble in hot or cold water, concentrated nitric acid, and hot acetic acid; soluble in hydrochloric acid, sulfuric acid and alkalies.
8. Evaporation rate: Data not available.
* Reactivity
1. Conditions contributing to instability: Contact between aluminum powder and ignition sources may create a severe explosion hazard. Because it is strongly electropositive, aluminum corrodes rapidly in contact with other metals.
2. Incompatibilities: Aluminum is an extremely reactive metal. Contact between aluminum and acids, caustics, combustible materials, chlorinated hydrocarbons, and strong oxidizers should be avoided.
3. Hazardous decomposition products: None reported.
4. Special precautions: Aluminum may corrode in contact with other metals.
* Flammability The National Fire Protection Association has assigned a flammability rating of 1 (slight fire hazard) to aluminum (dust or powder).
1. Flash point: Data not available.
2. Autoignition temperature: Data not available.
3. Flammable limits in air: Data not available.
4. Extinguishant: Do not use water, carbon tetrachloride, or halon to fight fires involving aluminum. Control small fires with sand, talc, or sodium chloride. Dry chemical or carbon dioxide extinguishers are also acceptable. Fires involving aluminum should be fought upwind from the maximum distance possible. Keep unnecessary people away; isolate the hazard area and deny entry. Containers of aluminum may explode in the heat of the fire and should be moved from the fire area if it is possible to do so safely. If this is not possible, cool fire exposed containers from the sides with water until well after the fire is out, but be careful not to get water inside containers. Stay away from the ends of containers. Firefighters should wear a full set of protective clothing and self-contained breathing apparatus when fighting fires involving aluminum.
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/healthguidelines/aluminum/recognition.html

You're right to ask these questions; what is the baseline from where it would be appropriate for the prospective probie to begin a physical fitness program. I should have added to the nutrition info I posted that it is for building a stronger physical foundation to be able to tackle the testing and maintenance program he wants to develop.

Great advice. I have some information about nutrition that was given to me from Cenegenics Medical Institute in Charleston, S.C. This can be very helpful for everybody;
1. Never skip meals; This will force your body into starvation mode and cause your metabolism to slow down, basically hoarding whatever calories you eat. Rather, eat smaller meals more frequently, based on the following suggestions. Think of food as fuel for your body.
2. Base each meal around a lean protein source: fish, chicken, turkey, lean beef (occasionally), yogurt (plain, unsweetened), cheese, cottage cheese and legumes (including soy). The serving size of protein should be about the size of the palm of your hand and the height of a deck of cards.
3. Cut out high glycemic carbohydrates: Bread, pasta, rice, cereals, candy, baked goods, pretzels, sweets, etc.
4. Eat at least 3-5 servings of fresh vegetables and 1-2 servings of fresh fruit every day: Vegetables are an excellent source of phyto-nutrients and fiber. Choose whole fruits instead of fruit juice because juicing removes the fiber and increases the glycemic index. Avoid corn, potatoes, bananas, dried fruit and tropical fruits (pineapple, mango, papaya, etc.).
5. Add healthy fats to your diet: Essential omega-3 and omega-9 fatty acids are crucial for the prevention of heart disease, arthritis, joint problems and immune system weakness. Good sources include salmon, sardines, almonds, walnuts, avocados, olive oil, canola oil and fish supplements.
6. Drink lots of water: Drink 6-8, 8 ounce glasses of pure(distilled) water daily. Drink one extra glass for every caffeinated beverage and when you exercise.
7. Keep alcohol intake to a minimum: While 4-8 ounces of red wine daily provides health benefits, more than that can increase your health risk. Dry red wine is the best choice. Hard alcohols are also low glycemic. Everything in moderation.
8. Choose natural products: Avoid refined foods, hydrogenated oils, artificial colors, flavors, sweeteners and preservatives. Avoid fat-free products, which usually make up for a lack of taste by adding artificial ingredients and sugar. Shop the perimeter of your grocery store.
9. Take your suppliments daily: Studies show reduced calorie diets without supplementation lower metabolism, but with supplementation the metabolism is unchanged.
It's not easy to keep to these guidelines. If you have to cheat, it's better to have one big blowout day per week, than to keep nibbling here and there. If anyone is interested I have a comprehensive list of the glycemic index of specific foods and a protein reference list. You can PM me here on the site, or e-mail me at efdcapt115@aol.com. Best of luck.

Do lots of deadlifts, squats and kettlebell swings. If you can afford it go to a CROSSFIT affiliate...if you can't follow their workouts as best you can on the crossfit.com website. Cardio is OVERATED, take a run through the woods every now and then or jump on stairmaster with a waited vest once or twice a week. Also climb ropes and do lots of pull ups and push ups...when you get tired do some more. Eat natural food..don't eat processed crap made in a science lab. Follow this advice and you will be a beast at the academy.

One snowy and cold Christmas morning around 1987, I brought a new Radio Shack scanner that I received as a present, to work at Station One. Immediately the b@ll-breaking started; "Oh look what Saaaantaaaa gave you!" "Now you can listen to the Phoenix Fire Dept!" etc. etc. Pile on stuff; the old-timers were still on the job then, and they were expert BBer's.
I sat down at the kitchen table listening to the scanner and catching hell for it. Then the Bronx comes on the radio. This scruffy old school officer with a smokey voice says; "Engine eight-eight to the Bronx k...
"Go with your message Engine 88....
"10-84...10-75 the box and a very Merry Christmas to you too Bronx...." in the calmest, saltiest voice we'd ever had heard.
Immediately the change-of-shift full room erupted simultaneously; "Whooaaaaa!!!!...."
Christmas in the firehouse. It has it's funny moments and memories in the making.
Merry Christmas to all; and a shout out to the brothers and sisters working the shift tomorrow. FD/PD/EMS, all of you who sacrifice that precious time with your families, to protect and serve; never more selflessly than on Christmas day.

Conditions always influence tactics however I'm not one to be in favor of stretching an uncharged handline into a residential structure because of the amount of variables that are present. For one the initial stretch is often the most critical on the fireground based on the tactical objectives identified. Having a good knowledge of residential building types in your district assists with making good decisions for the location of the initial stretch. I know many of the houses in my district that stretching to the rear through the back door gives me a straight shot from that door to the basement door and straight down the stairs. Raised ranch..pretty simple...right at the front door, if the garage is attached I have egress there. Center fed colonial...basement door is often in main hallway that divides the residence in 2.
One of the biggest things with basement fires is attempting to get a read on how involved the basement area is and getting a grasp on extension. If all else fails do what is necessary to keep the fire contained to allow crews to complete searches and achieve completion of incident priority number 1...life safety.
In addition to being able to be facing the way out, going down the stairs backwards allows you to check each step with your feet prior to putting all your weight bearing down on it as well as to spread your weight out. If the stairs fail under your legs, you will still have the friction of your upper body to use to try to keep from falling through. Many instructors have been noticing firefighters going down face first and saying they have been told this. I'm not sure where this is coming from as its not an accepted practice I have read or seen in any major curriculums but most important its not a sound tactic as all your weight is on your a** which is then on a step. If any fails, you are going through.

This is a great topic and the can has been and will continue to be a valuble tool on the fire ground. If you don't mind I would like to comment on the fire operations. I was not there and will only go by what you have wrote. You stated that you arrived and saw fire pushing up the stairs and out the door. That is a great size up and should help you and everyone else on scene with your next steps towards advancing on this fire. You tell us that the engine company started their "bread and butter" operations by stretching to the basement/garage door. We need to stop here and discuss. This is a residential structure with unknown ( we never assume everyone is out ) trapped occupants. In my opinion the first line should have gone to the front door where the fire was showing and protected the means of egress. The best chance of survival for any and all fleeing occupants is to protect their escape. With that said, you have stated that you and the Lt proceeded to the front door (which I believe is the right place to be) and began to use the can to keep the fire in check. Great move and great job on the Lt and his decission. Lets all go back to probie school or FF1 whichever pertains to you and remember what was taught about opposing handlines. This is a basement job and should be treated as such. In no way whatsoever should a handline have been stretched to the level below the front door. You and your Lt may have saved your own lives by using that can before the engine got water. Had there been a well advanced fire that the can did not control and the engine started pushing in my money would have been on the engine companies handline and not the truckies can. You guys are very lucky to have not received major burns or even have been killed. Take this as a learning aid and teach others what you know. In the end of the day we all (paid or volly ) have families we want to go home to and deserve that. Stay low and let it blow.

I don't think anyone really is saying that. The issue is blind faith in either career tract. This job, not unlike the military takes more than book smarts. All of the knowledge in the world won't help without the ability to make decisions rapidly and without all the variables. It also takes know the difference between theory and what works. They can't teach sounds and smells in a classroom, yet sometimes these are our best indicators. Conversely, you can take someone with very little education and make them a great firefighter if they have motivation. Probably not climbing high on the promotional ladder, but they can do the job well. Without a doubt well rounded individuals have a better chance of excelling. Those who have gone through college likely have better study habits (but not all) and have a system for themselves how to attain knowledge in a certain area they lack it in. To rise to the top it very often takes peers and subordinates assistance. Few company officers exceed when their company thinks they stink. So people skills, the ability to pass on knowledge and their trust is a key factor in your career path.
As I've said before, our FD has no requirement for any degrees, though the city admin is usually pretty hung up on them for the top slot (well at the one time in 14 years we've had a Chief leave). Those that have degrees don't standout in any way I have seen in my time, other than payday. A few have actual fire science degrees and don't seem to be any better at hydraulics, tactics, building construction or any specific topic than those who've learned these things in-house/in the field.
I'm not trying to discourage higher education as those who have it are closer to being "well rounded" than someone who has to start taking classes while working (it's a B**** trust me). But your degree means little in the field, where you'll need to prove your mettle.

Nice post. I wanted to quote you so maybe some of the brothers would sit back for a minute, re-read what you said, and remember how they really all do work together at emergencies, aside from this "pillow for your gun" cr@p. It's a shame that cops and firefighters are taking shots at each other. The Fire Officer that started this thread got upset because he cares. If the job is under pressure in New Rochelle, it spills onto all of it's members, particularly those who care the most. I think that's the biggest thing that the general public doesn't understand about being a firefighter or a cop; the pressure. I used to ride around in the duty car and think about the thirty plus thousand people that lived in the district, the five thousand plus apartments, over eight thousand structures, and think to myself " well whatever is going to happen on this shift, it's going to be my responsibility." That's what I got paid for, and when the proverbial hit the fan that's exactly the way it was. And that pressure did take it's toll on my health. That's why I'm retired now.
The police officer that posted his status came back and explained what he meant. I think now, particularly during the holiday season, and with all of the economic pressures coming down on all the jobs, it might be a good time to remember that everyone, cops and firefighters, are really on the same team. I have to admit I read the status update in question the same way the Fire Officer from New Rochelle did. I thought it wasn't appropriate. But I do know what cops are forced to endure and how difficult that job is. I think back to the day Michael Frey was killed. I'm thinking about Pipi who died in his patrol car. I'm thinking about Fred, who endures his pain and busts his @ss rehabing after being run down by a truck. These men are giants in my eyes.
As far as the public is concerned listen; corporations are squeezing everything they can out of the private work force. Then these same people come home and get their tax bills. They aren't thinking that they might be the next victim that needs a cop or a firefighter; they're thinking fifteen grand for property taxes. They don't take the time to break it down; the County, the City, the District, the School, they are mad as h#ll and can't take it anymore. Not while their 401K has been destroyed and their plans and dreams for the future are in jeopardy.
Yes it's a sad state of affairs that we are all in as a country these days. But to all the brothers on the job; keep your heads held high as you deliver a VITAL AND NECESSARY SERVICE to your community, and stick together k. Merry Christmas.
Edit: to reflect the correct rank of the Brother from New Rochelle. God Bless.

Nice post. I wanted to quote you so maybe some of the brothers would sit back for a minute, re-read what you said, and remember how they really all do work together at emergencies, aside from this "pillow for your gun" cr@p. It's a shame that cops and firefighters are taking shots at each other. The Fire Officer that started this thread got upset because he cares. If the job is under pressure in New Rochelle, it spills onto all of it's members, particularly those who care the most. I think that's the biggest thing that the general public doesn't understand about being a firefighter or a cop; the pressure. I used to ride around in the duty car and think about the thirty plus thousand people that lived in the district, the five thousand plus apartments, over eight thousand structures, and think to myself " well whatever is going to happen on this shift, it's going to be my responsibility." That's what I got paid for, and when the proverbial hit the fan that's exactly the way it was. And that pressure did take it's toll on my health. That's why I'm retired now.
The police officer that posted his status came back and explained what he meant. I think now, particularly during the holiday season, and with all of the economic pressures coming down on all the jobs, it might be a good time to remember that everyone, cops and firefighters, are really on the same team. I have to admit I read the status update in question the same way the Fire Officer from New Rochelle did. I thought it wasn't appropriate. But I do know what cops are forced to endure and how difficult that job is. I think back to the day Michael Frey was killed. I'm thinking about Pipi who died in his patrol car. I'm thinking about Fred, who endures his pain and busts his @ss rehabing after being run down by a truck. These men are giants in my eyes.
As far as the public is concerned listen; corporations are squeezing everything they can out of the private work force. Then these same people come home and get their tax bills. They aren't thinking that they might be the next victim that needs a cop or a firefighter; they're thinking fifteen grand for property taxes. They don't take the time to break it down; the County, the City, the District, the School, they are mad as h#ll and can't take it anymore. Not while their 401K has been destroyed and their plans and dreams for the future are in jeopardy.
Yes it's a sad state of affairs that we are all in as a country these days. But to all the brothers on the job; keep your heads held high as you deliver a VITAL AND NECESSARY SERVICE to your community, and stick together k. Merry Christmas.
Edit: to reflect the correct rank of the Brother from New Rochelle. God Bless.

Nice post. I wanted to quote you so maybe some of the brothers would sit back for a minute, re-read what you said, and remember how they really all do work together at emergencies, aside from this "pillow for your gun" cr@p. It's a shame that cops and firefighters are taking shots at each other. The Fire Officer that started this thread got upset because he cares. If the job is under pressure in New Rochelle, it spills onto all of it's members, particularly those who care the most. I think that's the biggest thing that the general public doesn't understand about being a firefighter or a cop; the pressure. I used to ride around in the duty car and think about the thirty plus thousand people that lived in the district, the five thousand plus apartments, over eight thousand structures, and think to myself " well whatever is going to happen on this shift, it's going to be my responsibility." That's what I got paid for, and when the proverbial hit the fan that's exactly the way it was. And that pressure did take it's toll on my health. That's why I'm retired now.
The police officer that posted his status came back and explained what he meant. I think now, particularly during the holiday season, and with all of the economic pressures coming down on all the jobs, it might be a good time to remember that everyone, cops and firefighters, are really on the same team. I have to admit I read the status update in question the same way the Fire Officer from New Rochelle did. I thought it wasn't appropriate. But I do know what cops are forced to endure and how difficult that job is. I think back to the day Michael Frey was killed. I'm thinking about Pipi who died in his patrol car. I'm thinking about Fred, who endures his pain and busts his @ss rehabing after being run down by a truck. These men are giants in my eyes.
As far as the public is concerned listen; corporations are squeezing everything they can out of the private work force. Then these same people come home and get their tax bills. They aren't thinking that they might be the next victim that needs a cop or a firefighter; they're thinking fifteen grand for property taxes. They don't take the time to break it down; the County, the City, the District, the School, they are mad as h#ll and can't take it anymore. Not while their 401K has been destroyed and their plans and dreams for the future are in jeopardy.
Yes it's a sad state of affairs that we are all in as a country these days. But to all the brothers on the job; keep your heads held high as you deliver a VITAL AND NECESSARY SERVICE to your community, and stick together k. Merry Christmas.
Edit: to reflect the correct rank of the Brother from New Rochelle. God Bless.

I spent my fire service career working in a very busy ghetto neighborhood. The local cops were always welcome to come in our quarters to: get out of the weather, have a hot cup of coffee, eat dinner with us, etc. Many times after midnight while we were responding from one alarm to next, they would be napping comfortably in our TV room. We never minded, we even covered for them when their 'boss' would come looking for them to put a 'scratch' in their books. The fact that we always went out of our way to do the right thing by the local cops makes it very difficult to accept the 'bed comments' that so many cops like to make about us. My employer always got 110% out of myself and my coworkers. Many of us are permanently disabled due to line of duty illness and injury. Many others were not fortunate enough to survive until retirement. I have always respected the job that cops have to do and never wanted any part of it. I take great exception to any derogatory comments that are made about firefighters.

To those members of the local media who read this forum...don't you think it would be important to investigate and report whether or not the response to this fire was inadequate and / or delayed? Also, who took these pictures? It wasn't a member of one of the departments who responded to the fire, was it?

Most of the fire was K/D when I got there, and the fire that was showing was hidden behind the smoke so the pictures didn't come out so good.

Well, Cap, I knew it was eventually going to happen.
You of all people,actually said "y'all."
The job in question was in NY, so the proper comment should have been "Youse guys was lucky."
...and Nims wants common terminology!
Which one of those terms is NIMS compliant?
Good job prompting that critique/discussion...Oops! I should have said "Debriefing"

Good things I see from these photographs:
1. At this point in the fire there seems to be adequate manpower.
2. The Command Post Board is deployed, with the Chief and Coordinator keeping a close eye on it.
3. There is RIT equipment and apparently a FAST team in front of the building.
4. All members are wearing appropriate gear, including Sanata.
5. Multiple handlines for back-up.
The questions I have are not a critique, I'm just curious:
1. Is this a truss constructed prefab, or a type 5?
2. Is there a basement?
3. Was the home occupied at the time of the fire?
4. How many units responded for the initial attack and what was that manpower number?
5. Was the aerial master-stream used for a knockdown?
6. Were groundladders deployed, maybe to the rear and out of view, or not needed?
4. Is the structure one level on all exposures?
Looks like it was a tough one for the first in units. Glad to see there is no info on here about any injuries.
Thanks in advance for any reply.

It seems like every day another new feature is being introduced on this site. Personally, I think the site is greatly improved. The favorite feature I like is when someone makes a new post the site will update to reflect it. It has to have taken a lot of effort on the part of the administration to make these improvements.
I've noticed the fundraising goal has been fairly stagnant as of late. If a majority of the "active" posters on the site would just step up and help the site reach it's very reasonable goal of a few thousand dollars, it would be a good thing. It would be doing the right thing imho. After all, we all participate here, get good information, share our thoughts and opinions, and for me being retired, it's a way to stay connected to the fire service.
Tis the season, and I encourage my fellow emtbravo members to help the site meet it's fundraising goal.