spin_the_wheel

Ahh, I get it!

Run lights and sirens and make everyone move, just so we can get a good video!

All those people in the car's behind the rig must be thrilled... Not to mention scaring the piss out of Grandma and her dog at the end.

UUmmmm looks like those cars were not staying 500 feet behind the rig.

As for the dog he wasn't even barking. My 2 (choco lab and Catahoula leopard dog) would have been going bananas!

Good luck with the new rig!!!!

Great stuff everyone post the vintage shots you have as well!!!!!

Classic Millwood Kenworth

One of my favorite all time Westchester rigs. Mamaroneck Seagrave tiller. Anyone out there have any good stories about this rig?

Hastings on Hudson Protection Engine company B model Mack.

A couple last thoughts. We all do this because we love it. Love it by doing the job and RESPONDING to alarms. The biggest thing that promotes pride, from what I see, is RESPONDING to alarms.

How many runs did you have? How many runs did they have? We beat you!! We beat last years total!!!! We broke 500 for the first time, 1000 for the first time, 2000 for the first time!!!!!!!

How many workers did you have? That Dept just signed on with a house fire "ACROSS FROM", we are the FAST lets start heading to the firehouse!!!

Haven't we all heard this stuff before? I know the younger guys who are new to this and still have an unmolested, virgin, untarnished view of things hate it when there is no Chauffeur for the rig and they have to stand around. Thinking to themselves while responding to the fire house "I hope we get out for this one" You know the guys who still bust a$$ to get to the firehouse for the regularly scheduled automatic alarm at McDonalds. There are a lot of older guys who still have this fire burning in them and still love responding to the alarms.

With this in mind for the love of me I don't see how guys like this, the future of your fire companies, would not want to be a part of a larger organization. Would you rather do 200 calls a year or 1500 or more? Pride is in the numbers. Hell you like to play with the siren when your in the front seat, instead of 3 minute rides in your 2 square mile area, now you get to play with them longer responding in your new 20 mile district!!!!

The last time I said something about the "older" guys in certain organizations I got hammered with negative responses. However I still think in this case it is the older guys in certain departments who are holding back progress in this direction. Pride is not in t-shirts and jackets, but in numbers and activity. Training and workers. RESPONDING and getting the job done the right way.

Keep em' rolling and stay safe boys.

Unfortunately in most cases the Chief's have their hands full just keeping the department going and they're not trained, equipped, or interested in tackling systemic problems when they have their own little local problems to contend with.

There is no bigger problem facing you as a Chief then your response to alarms. If the Chief cannot handle this then he should not be in the position or he should get bounced next time elections are held period.

You're confusing consolidation with converting to paid personnel. That's apples and oranges. I'm advocating consolidating. The need to consider paid personnel would be done after this was assessed.

You can study things until the trucks rust and current FF's are all in the FF Home and nothing will change. Someone has to DO something and nobody is willing or able to step up.

I suggest that a lot of the research you're talking about has already been done and simple consolidations at the town level (instead of 9 FD's in a town, go to one) would be a great start, save money and make more FF available for calls.

I agree with you. I did not know there were studies done. I do agree many think consolidation means paid. There are other things to try before you go down this road.

One thing should be considered by those departments that cant muster a crew. Is it they cannot muster a crew because honestly there is no one around to respond due to work schedules....or is it because members are "blowing" off alarms. Be honest this happens.

After you do a truthful study of your response paterns make sure everyone in your department "buys into" your plan for the future. This is a must.

Duty crew systems can work were crews know its their responsibility to cover a certain time period responding from home. Or go to an in house crew system and eliminate the home response model. It's easier for some volunteers to plan their time around a set schedule. Maybe they cant commit to giving you 30% of alarms each month but can commit to giving you 40 hours a month in the form of scheduled shift work standing by in the firehouse.

if your one of these departments its up to the chiefs to figure this stuff out.

It does include them. Busy enough, yes. Big enough, no. We keep doing more calls with fewer resources. And as long as we stand alone, the powers that be will continue to cut away

So noted. However as much as many will knock the volunteer departments for not giving up there individuality if you will, there is NO way I could ever see a city like Yonkers, White Plains or even New Rochelle give up there "names" to be a part of a "Westchester County Fire Rescue Department"

You would know better then I would ever know...do you think it is remotely possible?

If we were proactive, we would no longer be part of New York State, I'm sure Albany passed a law on that.

Westchester is 433 square miles

59 Depts.

approximatly 125 stations

approximatly 200 engines and spares

approximatly 77 Ladders, Towers and Spares

approximatly 45 Rescues

approximatly 17 Tankers

How many of the 450+ apparatus have manning?

How much are we spending (collectivly) on apparatus we cant man?

On stations to house it?

On maintenance?

On insurance?

On equipment?

Now when everyone points ot the schools, we havethe same problem multiplied by 100 million dollar budgets.

Does this number include Yonkers, White Plains and New Rochelle? I would think any major consolidation would not include these departments. I would think these departments are big enough and busy enough to co-exist outside of a major consolidation plan no?

Isn't it better to be proactive then to be reactive? I no longer live in Westchester, when I was there I was a volunteer fire fighter, so I can see things from the volunteer perspective. I left NY and worked for a combined fire Dept. we had 2-4 full time fire fighters on duty at all time. When we had a Med call, they took the ambulance, the "call Co" volunteers" came in and covered the station. We were ready for the next call. If it was a fire, the career guys took the first due pumper, the call company responded with other truck to support them. If more resources were needed mutual aid was called. This system worked very well. Now I live in an area where there is a county wide fire department. The county is 688 square miles, we have 17 stations, they run 13 engines, 6 quints, 17 rescue ambulances, 3 tankers, 10 brush trucks 3 foam truck and a haz mat unit. The medics man the back of 2 choppers that are piloted by the sheriffs office for air transports. My reason for listing all this is, why is it that here in FL a Dept. like this can operate on 25% of the taxes people in Westchester pay? It can be done there, but it would require some people at the top to realize that things have to change. That's just my opinion for what it's worth.

The county you live in probably went to this system in the late 60's early 70's. That was the time Westchester, Nassau, Putnam etc...should have done this IF it were to happen. A firefighters salary and benefits is probably nothing near what a firefighters salary and benefits is like in our area of NY.

Introducing 100 paid firefighters as "county" firefighters who will make historically what their counterparts make salary wise in the same geographic area may be a savings in the short term. But 20 years from now this system will probably be more expensive then the current system with salary cost factor NEVER going lower.

One thing the volunteer system does have going for it is that the powers to be, commissioners, wardens, trustees whatever you call them do have the power to LOWER the cost of fire protection. Unlike a system with salaries in place that will always rise. Now I know this does not solve the manpower issue, but if it is taken by a district by district solution, a single department can probably find a way to cut costs to budget and hire one or two paid personnel for daytime responses.

In a total county model years from now the people in charge will probably want to cut firefighters as is the trend everywhere. I dont see this reversing itself. 20 years from now you will have less apparatrus and less firefighters then you do now in a county wide system IF a strong volunteer base is not sustained.

When do you have to? When you can no longer get out for anything or when you have so few members you're ineffective? NOW is the time to start regionalizing and consolidating small departments to make viable, effective ones.

You would study specific geographic areas, alarm totals, manpower and response to alarms.

If an area of departments does not have a problem with getting out why would they need paid personel? You may cut down on the number of apparatus they would be responsible to man. Instead of getting 6 rigs out with 15 people among the 6 rigs, they now would have 15 on 2 rigs. Nice size crews in any system.

On the other hand if an area involving 2 or 3 departments has a problem then have a paid person or 2 on duty to work with the volunteers. Regionalizing and consoildating smalle departments/companies does not automaticaly mean going paid.

Very well said and I agree with you. I no longer live in Westchester, but what I wonder is, why is it so hard to change whatever law it is that prevents a county wide fire service. Other states do it with much lower taxes. I think a county wide fire department would help. The volunteer companies could support the county fire fighters, but at least an engine would be able to respond quickly. In citys where there is already a career department in place there would be no need for county firefighters. I agree this is a long way out, but someone should be at least getting a plan in gear.

You wouldn't have to even go paid in a county wide fire service. See how it would work out just having one system and response plan in place with less apparatus. Instead of one department having to man 5 rigs they may now be responsible for only 1 or 2. NOW if they cannot even man 1 rig, that is another story. But I don't think going paid right off the bat would be the right choice. Transition into a combination department is very rough. Don't cross that bridge until you have to.

Tarrytown Mack CF Glenn Vincent photo.

Ossining Mack CF Neil Van Deusen photo.

Croton on Hudson classic Mack rescue.

Mack factory photo Hastings on Hudson

Mack Factory photo Port Chester Hook and Ladder.

Pleasantville Hahn patrol.

I'm "assuming" this is Pleasantville Westchester...but you know what happens when you do that. ALF factory photo.

Sunday Aug 25th 1 to 5pm with special ceromony to be held at 2pm. Eng.2 firehouse Elmont Ave. just north of Hempstead Tpke. minutes from the cross island parkway/queens border. Rides, food, beverages, t-shirts.

This is a failure that the volunteer fire service has come to accept. If a rig responding to an alarm gets into an accident, this leads to a delay in getting this particular rig to the fire. A failure of sorts. The Chauffeur probably will have his driving privileges taken away for some amount of time. maybe re training will take place. However a failure, WHICH someone will take the responsibility for and a corrective measure will take place to try and make this not happen again.

While stretching a line there is a substantial delay in getting the line charged. The hydrant man did a butcher job hitting the hydrant, screwed it all up, leading to a big delay. A failure and a fire ground embarrassment witnessed by many. The person involved after getting their balls broke to no end will go back to training and learning what they did wrong and hopefully it will never happen again. Again someone is held accountable for the failure.

Your dispatcher types in the wrong address into the CAD system for whatever reason. Mistakes happen they are human to. This leads to a 6 minute delay before the correct address can be figured out. Luckily it's nothing serious. A failure none the less. The Chiefs will complain to whomever they need to and a letter will be written. It will be put in the dispatchers file and some re training will take place. End result someone is held responsible and the mistake-failure is expected not to repeat itself anytime soon.

Someone is held accountable in all these situations.

BUT the failure to cover alarms for some reason-Chiefs have become immune to. If you are a Chief of a department with this problem you are the one who is held accountable for these failures. Just as you would be quick to find out who was responsible for the above scenarios occurring you must also look at what is responsible for the failure to cover your alarms. And the solutions lay on your shoulders as well. Are you a department that accepts failure?

Port Chester Seagrave tiller. This rig must have seen a lot of fire duty in its time. It just went out of service a few years back correct? Gotta love the open tiller cab and to think the tillerman was still tooling around the village in an open tiller cab in the 2000's Cool. Photo by Mike Martinelli

Next time Pleasantville "patrols" and some more Macks.

Besides Maxim I think Mack made some of the best looking fire apparatus. Some people think the American LaFrance 700 series "bathtub" look is the "definitive" American fire engine, I think the Mack B model is. It had its lines in the right places for sure and was the best looking fire engine model ever, in my opinion. Here is Peekskill Centennial Hose Co # 4 semi open cab. Again this was taken I believe at a parade in Nassau county. No photo credit for this and the White Plains rigs. M.Cap collection.