jack10562

The Incident Commander doesn't always have to be the most senior or even most knowledgeable person on a scene. In many cases an incident command is established and being managed at a scene by the first arriving qualified responder, often someone other than a Chief. And then just because the Chief or other senior member arrives that alone doesn't necessarily require an automatic transfer of command.
Many incidents turn out to only require a minimum level of response, and the Chief or other "senior" arriving individual can always elect to maintain the existing command structure without necessarily assuming the white hat, provided the incident is either under control or not expected to escalate further.

The interest level in posting photos has (unfortunately) taken a nose-dive, in part, due to the negative comments about the operations depicted, that almost always seem to find their way into these threads.
Many of our members who have posted numerous photos in the past have become jaded from the same, tired comments, about masks and straps and whatnot being worn improperly, and as a result, no longer do so.
In fact, a new site policy eliminates public comments in photo threads so they can be more like a gallery, to view without members "input".
We are hopeful this policy will encourage those who formerly posted great photos to resume sharing their work.

The interest level in posting photos has (unfortunately) taken a nose-dive, in part, due to the negative comments about the operations depicted, that almost always seem to find their way into these threads.
Many of our members who have posted numerous photos in the past have become jaded from the same, tired comments, about masks and straps and whatnot being worn improperly, and as a result, no longer do so.
In fact, a new site policy eliminates public comments in photo threads so they can be more like a gallery, to view without members "input".
We are hopeful this policy will encourage those who formerly posted great photos to resume sharing their work.

The interest level in posting photos has (unfortunately) taken a nose-dive, in part, due to the negative comments about the operations depicted, that almost always seem to find their way into these threads.
Many of our members who have posted numerous photos in the past have become jaded from the same, tired comments, about masks and straps and whatnot being worn improperly, and as a result, no longer do so.
In fact, a new site policy eliminates public comments in photo threads so they can be more like a gallery, to view without members "input".
We are hopeful this policy will encourage those who formerly posted great photos to resume sharing their work.

There are frequently intelligent and thoughtful discussions on this forum; sometimes they become contested and members passionately debate the issue(s). This is one of the great things about the site.
On the other hand, some members find it necessary to create screennames just for the sake of stirring the pot and don't contribute anything at all to the discussions. This artificially aggravates perceptions on all sides and about this site and don't serve any valid purpose.
If you don't know the forum rules please review them and abide by them to keep this site operating as it should be.
The forum staff is researching accounts created solely to stir the pot and offending members will be banned permanently. Likewise, it may be necessary to block specific IP addresses to prevent frequent abuses. If you suddenly find that you can't log in to EMTBravo from your firehouse, EMS agency, PD, DPW, etc. it is very possible that one of your colleagues has been abusing forum rules and spamming the forum. Don't like it? Exert a little peer pressure on those who think they can post whatever they want just to see what problems they can start.
The overwhelming majority of members here are positive, contributing members. To keep those members and encourage new members to join we're going to remove the bad apples and their posts.
Thank you for your understanding and cooperation! As always, if you have any questions or concerns feel free to PM or e-mail someone on the staff.
The EMTBravo Staff

A friend found this in his house. It lists Box locations in Scarsdale. The card states, "Effective May 15, 1927."

To back up what 25Truck26 said. I posted apparatus photos of what was on display at Fleet Day. Who cares if Stiloski's trucks have red/blue/green lights. All these departments took part in this event, without them there would be no Fleet Day. Being from Yonkers I was very impressed with the Yonkers Fire Department. All my years photographing and posting apparatus photos of FDNY, Yonkers and Westchester County, I never saw a topic get so off track. This posting is on apparatus photos. If you want to bash and and make critical comments take it somewhere else.
Joe Pinto

OK Now I will post for the second time in four years.
Recently I was called in from home and paid overtime to stand-by in a White Plains firehouse while they battled a blaze on Lake St. There were other Mutual Aide companies in the city as well, I believe two, all on stand-by all at the expense of their taxpayers NOT the City of White Plains taxpayers.
Now that the City of White Plains has shown that it is unwilling to pay for a minimum level of protection will the surrounding departments continue to subsidize the City of White Plains at their own taxpayers’ expense but sending in Mutual Aide to stand-by? How do you justify this?
Now let’s be very clear I am not, nor would I ever say if a Department needs help you don’t go. If White Plains or anyone else has a fire or other emergency and needs help at the scene they should get all they need from their neighbors. But to expect that other communities should pay for the manpower and apparatus to stand-by in your fire stations when you are not willing to pay for your own employees is ludicrous! Especially for a city like White Plains that enjoys such a broad and lucrative tax base. How come no one is asking where the tax dollars are being spent?

This is a good question and I agree that many may choose not to answer because they don't want to offend anyone and / or look in the mirror. I'll jump in though because I think this is an important topic.
In the career fire service a good senior man should have several qualities...calm, confident, lead by example, minimal or no whining, an advocate for the men to the officers and an advocate for the officers to the men. A good senior man praises in public and criticizes in private. A good senior man does not take things personally nor does he make personal attacks.
A good senior man does not need to be the most intelligent, skilled, or physically fit firefighter...he realizes that his years of experience entitle him to respect automatically and this respect will be lost only if he is dishonest, uncaring, a bully,or a loudmouth.
A good senior man rarely, if ever, asks for special privilege due to his senior status. The less he asks, the more it will be given.
Good senior men have many different styles and personalities but I have found the most effective, comforting, senior men to be the type who are more likely to be found quietly observing from a corner of the room than loudly carrying on in the middle of the crowd.
Now, maybe we should talk about what makes a good junior man, because we can have the best Officers and senior men in the world, but if the guy or guys at the bottom and in the middle don't do their job and just want to blame their own bad attitudes and work ethic on those above them, all the best intentions of the bosses and senior men are useless.....

Virtually all of these single story stand-alone fast food establishments are built using inexpensive light-weight truss construction.
Good rule of thumb is if the fire has extended outside of the exhaust ductwork and has been working more than ten minutes prior to your arrival, don't even go inside.
Odds are very high everyone is already out, anyway.
The HVAC air handlers up there on the roof are just waiting to come down.
Factor in ice and snow load, depending on location and season.

Well, very presumptuous (or clairvoyant) of you to assume what other Members are thinking. It seems like the Union doesn't need help discrediting themselves here. Just like in volleyball, sometimes when someone sets you, you spike it. And coming from a Union that has had 14 line of duty deaths in 10 years, with all associated expenses paid by the Union, I have no qualms about saying so.
As for the secondary debate that has evolved, in full disclosure, I think use of taxpayer funds to stock bars at volunteer stations is equally unethical and an abuse.

105 views so far...I bet I can double that at least...

Chris, you make some excellent points here. I have nothing to do with water ops in Yonkers but from where I sit we are as guilty as anyone...everyone has to have their own boat and be in charge...if all of the police-fire agencies on both sides of the river got together and combined resources it seems to me that we could provide 24/7, 365 coverage with good response times, and trained personnel for less $ than everyone is spending now, and we wouldn't even have to pull over every poor slob with a jet ski to justify our existence...I was working the day the cessna went down off the Yonkers shore in November or whenever that was and it really sucked watching those two guys doing the backstroke in the middle of the river through binoculars until NYPD and the Coast Guard showed up and saved the day.
In my mind, this is definiely an area ripe for consolidation and regionalization, including Police and Fire, and perhaps even career and volunteer, as long as all the parties could agree to live up to the same training, medical, and physical fitness standards.

The Westchester Special Operations Task Force (WSOTF) consists of 10 departments operating a Technical rescue, Hazmat unit and 6 squad companies. The squads are from Yonkers, New Rochelle, Mt Vernon, White Plains, Eastchester & Scarsdale, and Greenville/Fairview/Hartsdale. All squads are trained and equipped for in Hazmat/WMD and Confined Space, all are trained for trench & building collapse, but only 4 of the squads are equiped for that. We train together, we would like to train together more, but sometimes funding is funneled elsewhere and not to WSOTF ($400,000 from a WSTOF major collapse drill went far north). If you wanted the services of WSOTF they can be requested thru 60 Control, but you have to ask for them, if you want WSOTF otherwise they will send the team they feel is "best".
Yonkers, Greenville and New Rochelle responded to Hawthorne for a building collapse after a tornado strike (about 2 years ago). 18 minutes after dispatch we had approximatly 56 technical rescue techs onscene which included 3 collapse units and 2 heavy rescue units. This was on a weekday afternoon.
Is it a duplication to have the Westchester TRT? what kind of response can they provide? Last weekend Valhalla FD had a vehicle into a building and they requested the WTRT to respond. The onscene time was 20 minutes from time of dispatach. How many members arrived in 20 minutes?
WSOTF was able to get 56 fully trained members to Hawthorne in the same time it tok WTRT to respond to Valhalla with "X" number of responders. Note: as of last summer they had approx 25 members who had completed the states building collapse course.
New Rochelle (and others) have responded M/A to other counties and even north to the Canadian Border. When we were trying to establish a county wide system (years before the WTRT) we traveled north a number of times to show volunteer depts that we wanted their participation.

This might as well just be closed now, because the answers were not provided last time I highly doubt they willl be provided this time and its just going to set everyone off all over again.

And so it begins yet again.

I didn't see anyone lining up to bash the original poster, much less 10. If I'm wrong please correct me with some specific factual information.
The original poster claimed that there are people who are allowed to "stir the pot in multiple threads", "bash", and to be "unprofessional and counterproductive", yet he has given no specifics. Where is the evidence of this???
Yet, no one has bashed him. Several members have made great, eloquent, FACT BASED responses which were
respectful and did not in any way make a personal attack. His post was rebutted. He was not attacked personally. Why can't some of you see this? I know most of you do see this of course which is why I, and others, will continue to speak out on here or elsewhere as we see fit in order to, in my case, attempt to improve fire and EMS in this area of the country. (I'll leave law enforcement to the professionals in that area)
It really is hard sometimes to believe that the members on this forum are all (or mostly all) in emergency services what with all thin skin.
I really do believe the acronym QTIP is so applicable here...I often use it to remind myself to do the same...why not try it guys?

This is not targeted to anyone but I am a firm believer in "if you can't take the heat"...you know the rest. We all have opinions and should be able to express them without being accused of bashing. I have read many comments about volunteer departments such as training (or lack of) manning, response time, too much equipment, blue lights. consolidation..etc and you know what....most of them are true so I suggest either get thick skinned about and fix the problem or do something else. The politically correct tone is ruining the fire service. I am seeing it first hand and it disgusts me.

I don't post on here often, and when I do I keep my posts to a minimum. I like to get involved in debates about sensitive issues just as much as some other members do, but I don't get involved in serious debates on this site because you say one thing and right away 10 people are crying that you're bashing or criticizing. Quite frankly, it's a turn off for a lot of people who may be able to contribute positively to the forum, but don't want to get all mixed up in the nonsense.
I don't think that outright attacks should exist in this forum. I don't think this forum should become the equivalent of an NYPD Rant type forum where a bunch of disgruntled emergency services personnel talk about who is the worst paramedic, or the laziest cop, or the buffiest firefighter. I think this forum should remain a constructive place for local emergency services personnel to debate and discuss the issues that exist in emergency services, whether at the local or national level. Chris192's post in the other thread related to this topic is a perfect response I think... if only I could put it so eloquently, but honestly I don't care much about being eloquent.
Emergency services personnel generally have Alpha/dominant personalities. They're leaders, they face things that the general public does not face, and we do things that the general public does not do. Having an alpha personality means sometimes you have to grow some thick skin. If someone throws a jab at volunteers, don't cry about it. Come up with an educated rebuttal that disputes what that member is saying. Problems exist across the board with paid, volunteer, and combination departments. Discussing these problems is not bashing, it's a discussion to talk about the problems that exist. If you don't like the fact that your agency has faults that someone pointed out in this forum, get over it. Maybe the points brought up here are valid points, so instead of crying about it, do something about it. Make necessary changes, ask how things can be improved, ask what you can do to bring your agency up to the recognized standards.
The simple fact is that in an area where there is so much diversity amongst its emergency service personnel, there's always going to be conflict and debates. Just because someone's views on a certain person, agency, service, or method of doing things aren't your own views, as JFLYNN says, QTIP.
I can only hope that too many members of the general public don't read the nonsense that goes on here. Some of the threads are fantastic, with great input from a lot of educated and experienced individuals. The moderators do an excellent job of weeding out posts that are not constructive.
While I don't personally know you Seth, I know you value this forum for what it is and I know that you and the staff have put a lot of time, effort, and money into creating this forum. All I can say is, don't let all the petty complaints and other nonsense get to you. If people have a problem with things that are said here or topics that arise, let them move on, and find another forum where everyone holds hands and sings songs around a campfire. If they choose not to move on, then they are going to have to learn not to be so sensitive and grow some thicker skin.

The topic started here is to find out some direction of question in the Topic Title.
A little background on the subject, the other day a local Fire District was requested to respond to another District's firehouse for stand-by coverage on a relocate and the requested Department responded with only two individuals, a Driver & an Exterior/Support member, on the rig and were met at the Stand-by station by one of thier Asst. Chiefs... So, in reality what was this rig that relocated ready to handle should they had to go to a AFA, Structure Fire, MVC or even an EMS Call ???
So here are the questions this topic brings out that I would like to have some input from all you out there on.
Should an Engine or Truck when they are dipatched to a neighboring District for stand-by relocation coverage be staffed with just anyone?
Just a Driver?
or Fully Staffed with Qualified interior people in every seat?
and
Should they all come on the rig?
or Can you have Engine or Truck respond and have the proper personnel meet that rig in the relocate station?
and
Who Decides this?
The District being requested?
or The District Requesting the coverage?
What is your protocol and who decided it??
I welcome all and any comments and thoughts on this topic.
Thanks in advance..

This incident really concerns me. I cannot recall ever hearing or reading of an incident of this type; an exploding dumpster that killed a firefighter. We've all seen BLEVEs in our time. I also recall one incident where firefighters were cutting open the side of a Silo with a partner saw, hosing down the blade to prevent sparks when the particulate matter inside the silo exploded, blowing the cut section out and killing a firefighter.
But this incident is unique. Naturally with hindsight it's easy to say the department involved should have been aware of the occupancy; an aluminum sand casting plant, that should have raised red flags with regard to the contents of the dumpster.
Do you know the industrial sites within your response area; what they manufacture, and what they would be disposing of as a biproduct of their manufacturing? Sure if you have a furniture plant in your district you would be aware of the fire load and chemical hazards within the plant, but how many of us have the awareness to think that the disposal areas outside the plant could be time-bombs just waiting for water to be added to create an explosion hazard?
In my time, the thing that most concerned me was auto-exposure from a dumpster to the structure itself. I mostly thought if the contents contained something dangerous it would be latex paint cans, or possibly spray paint. We had numerous dumpster fires, and pulled the engine close enough to extinguish the fire with a 100' trash line. But now, after this, I think I wouldn't do it anymore.
What about a gasoline can in the dumpster, like Bill pointed out? Or a discarded propane tank, that somebody just dropped in the garbage in the dark of night?
I really think this incident should be given GREAT attention by all fire departments. The NIOSH report should be poured over by everyone. And immediately, ALL dumpster fires should be approached as if they are ALL capable of exploding, and causing death or injury to firefighters.
How about this; if there is no exposure issue with a burning dumpster, why not just automatically create a hot-zone, and do not attempt to extinguish it? I mean, what are we actually "saving" anyway? A dumpster? Certainly not the contents. IMHO, let it burn out, and stay away.
This fatal incident should be given high priority and put all departments on notice to NOT continue business as usual. Dumpsters have become EXTREMELY hazardous, and ALL dumpster fires should be treated as haz-mat incidents from now on. For God sake, this thing went off like an IED!

I agree...Beware of Dumpsters, but also look at the "flip side" of this "what's in a dumpster" thread:
Ever have a suspicious car fire in the rear of a strip mall?...I'll be willing to bet you have. Rear of the strip mall is a favorite place to dump and burn the klunker.
Afterward, check the line of dumpsters behind the mall. There's a really good chance you'll find the accelerant container complete with fingerprints in one of those dumpsters.
And it ain't just for car fires, the guy that poured the gas wants to get rid of the can asap. Thence it goes in a nearby dumpster.

A 33 year old Firefighter was killed last night in Calumet County WI while fighting a fire in a dumpster. The Fire Department was notified via the PD of the Fire, as crews were engaged in Firefighting when i violet explosion occured killing the one firefighter and injuring 9 others. One firefighter is listed in crital condition and the 8 others had non life threatening injuries. Neighbors said that the explosion was strong enough to rock their homes. An investigation is underway. As we are aall very much aware of any incident might end up with bad results. In dumpsters you never know what may be in the dumpster. Be safe out there!

How bout this?? WATCH WHAT YOU SAY, WATCH WHAT YOU DO!! We are ALL public servants, regardless of where we came from, how much school we went to, or where we work. We are held to a higher standard, sometimes unfairly, but we are held to a higher standard nonetheless. So what if the guy got 8 plus hours of OT standing around. HE'S DOING HIS JOB!!!! He is protecting the city in which he works. I'd rather he was standing on that street corner, instead of having to chase some skell down a dark alley. I score 12 hours of OT sitting on my duff. So what?? I'm doing my job. We know that, the folks we work with know that. The public doesn't. I know, I'm notorious for putting work related stuff on my Facebook. Usually complaining about the really crappy commute to 11Metro Tech. But, I am sure as hell thankful I got a job.
Bottom line here kids. The public, educated or not, is ignorant when it comes to what goes on in the Emergency Services Sector. They don't know much, if anything that goes on in that radio car, bus, or behind those big red doors. We gotta be a little smarter. Soapbox 10-9. Thank you.