gamewell45

6 hours ago, FireMedic049 said:

 

That hasn't exactly been what I've seen from the large city near me.  They've had several employees across different city departments that have been reinstated, largely due to violations of due process, in some cases, rushing into terminating the employee.

I've been involved as a union rep in numerous discharge cases and as a rule have the burden of proof; in most of them management doesn't do their "homework" and the employee ends up being reinstated, many times with full back pay and benefits as well.  It's also important to remember that the  union is not there to "protect" the employee, rather they are there to "represent" the employee .

On 9/26/2017 at 0:11 AM, dwcfireman said:

I'd like to preface this that I am 100% asking this question for a friend.  It does not concern me nor my employer.

 

So, recently a friend of mine approached me about the termination of a union employee.  My friend looked to me because I have union experience as a local president and representative.  Without getting into the details of the termination,  I would like to find out some information from other emergency professionals whether you have information or experience regarding the termination of a unionized emergency services employee.  If anyone could provide an example of a situation, how the termination was handled, if a grievance was filed, and the outcome of said grievance, I would appreciate every bit of information that you could provide.  I've never dealt with a situation like this, and I would love some assistance from my fellow brothers and sisters to help our brothers and sisters who are currently dealing with this situation.

 

I will reiterate that I cannot share information of the situation out of the sheer respect for those involved.  I understand that it may be difficult to share information or experiences without knowing the full story, but if any one can provide basic examples or situations it would be highly appreciated.

I might be able to be of assistance; I have quite a bit of experience in the labor field serving as a union officer as well as grievance chairman, most of it being in the private sector.  If you want I'll supply you with an email address to contact me.

14 hours ago, TheBuffWhisperer said:

It looks like we all share the same concerns about this up and coming team. It ultimately comes down to the number of members on this team and their level of commitment to training. S1720G brings up a very valid point. 

If the county can claim that we have this elite team, but one day this team is truly needed and there are not enough members to respond. I feel we will start to see a pushback from our community and they will start to usher in the idea for the county to hire career FF. We've seen it starting to go that route with the paid ambulances. 

As long as the public is aware that there is a price tag that comes attached along with it (and accepts it), there should be no problem with forming a career department to handle this elite team.  However given the mindset of today's taxpayers, any increase in tax dollars paid will most likely be met with resistance on their part. Whoever is going to form this career team will need to have their homework done before going public with their plans.

On 8/6/2017 at 11:02 AM, Dinosaur said:

How will they get there? By POV with a blue light?  Absurd!

 

 

 

Give them emergency vehicle status; that solves that issue.

35 minutes ago, 210 said:

I can see that. I grew up in PC. I have very good friends both volunteer and career. Im sorry it's come down to this. I'd like to meet everyone at the old Terry Lodge for drinks and food like the old times. 

 

P.S.

Kelly's in Rye is always an option.  Lol.

Never let a few bad apples, whether career or volunteer, spoil the entire barrel because to the core in our hearts we are all there to help those during their time of need.

19 hours ago, kinkchaser said:

Regional approach, the only real answer

Agreed. Especially in area's where the volunteer turnout is dismal on a regular basis.  Westchester has changed over the past 40 years and many departments have failed to keep up with the times and its come home to roost.  The AHJ has an obligation to provide fire protection to its residents and if it means conversion from volunteer to combo or a fully career department, that's what is going to happen regardless of opinion.

My suggestion to fire commissioners/city managers would be when a member of your department appears before you to make a suggestion that they would feel improve recruitment/retention/participation that you give it serious consideration; the mindset should be how can we make it work as opposed to why it won't work.  A positive outlook usually works better then one of negative as people tend to support what they help to create, something I think many departments have forgotten over time.  Younger members bring enthusiasm, dedication and Ideas; the older members offer experience and wisdom; combine both and you have a chance to allow the fire departments mission statement to succeed. Just my opinion.

On 2/24/2017 at 8:48 PM, dwcfireman said:

170?  So, over 22 years WP has cut 36 positions? (The current number was found here)  That equates to 12 firefighters per shift, assuming a 24 on/48 off schedule.  I know this would probable cost about $5 million per year to cover these firefighters (pay/benefits/overtime), but wouldn't the end result be worth it?  The article stated that the LODD (in 1993) was the first since 1954.  Why should there be any?  Yes, we can train harder and learn more about how to do our jobs, but you still need manpower on the scene to safely conduct our jobs.

I would explain to the mayor and residents that the firefighters will do the possible; the impossible will just have to wait like it or not.

2 hours ago, nfd2004 said:

 

This is repeated so many times over in America. Most taxpayers consider firefighters as just a burden on their tax dollars. That is UNTIL......... it's too late.

 

For many, they pay for education, police, public works, but by far paying for firefighters seems to be the biggest problem. Sometimes, these firefighters don't even get the support from other firefighters, right within their own communities. Such is the case where in my own community, so often other firefighters will try to push for the cutting of manning.

 

 People will say, "but firefighters aren't fighting enough fires to make that manning necessary". I say to that, we all are paying for our military and I'm glad when we're NOT fighting a war. Most of us also pay insurance premiums on our homes, cars or apartments. Yet, we don't use that insurance policy unless needed. 

 

 To the average taxpayer, a group of career firefighters is merely a burden on their pocketbook. But tonight if they are one of the unfortunate one's, they could very quickly change that attitude. They now call them THEIR HEROs. It happens quickly and without warning. It's happened before and it will happen again. Meantime firefighters are forced to take much more risk than is already required. But most took an oath to perform "the saving of lives and property". We are talking human lives and most firefighters will throw themselves into danger to do whatever is possible to get those human lives out of danger.

 

 To some, Firefighters are a Burden.

 To some, Firefighters are a Hero

 

As long as the public know that firefighters will throw themselves into danger to do whatever is possible to get those human lives out of danger, nothing is going to change their mindset.  For the firefighters they are caught between a rock and a hard place; many of us took an oath to help save lives and property and if we know someone's life is in danger all the rules of OSHA and NFPA generally go out the window as opposed to standing around waiting for the minimum requirement of firefighters arrive on the scene.  The best thing I think we can do is to educate the public as to the importance of proper staffing and ideally change their mindset.  Most likely it'll be an uphill battle but you have to start somewhere.

14 hours ago, x635 said:

What always gets me about Greenwich is that they are one of the wealthiest communities in the entire nation. How they can not afford to properly staff an engine is beyond me.

They can afford it, just that they hate to spend their money unless absolutely necessary.   

I'm sure if, God forbid, their house were on fire, I'd bet they'd want to make sure that all the first responders would hear the siren(s).  

13 minutes ago, FF402 said:

 

http://www.lohud.com/story/news/local/westchester/new-castle/2016/10/26/chappaqua-fire-station-expansion-rejected/92765618/

There you have it; democracy in action.  Perhaps a much scaled down version can be presented to the public down the road.

5 hours ago, FF402 said:

Here's the official response:
 

 

Looks like the Board of Fire Commissioners did their homework; now all they have to do is sell it to the public.

6 hours ago, calhobs said:

I don't understand. If Hartsdale has six members and they do not respond to emergency calls. How are they even a department. Why are they even given that money. It makes no sense. If that payment of day to day living is for the volunteers that is disgusting. Why are they even allowed in the fire house. Is this a legit combo department or are they hangout to just watch TV read the paper and drink coffee. If that's the case sign me up for that thank you pension!

Do you know for a fact that there are only six volunteer members?  Do we know it to be factual that they do not respond on emergency calls??  Why shouldn't the volunteers have access to the fire station they serve out of??  Do you know for a fact that all they do is "hang out to just watch TV, read the paper and drink coffee??  IF you want to enjoy that so-called "thank you pension" then you will have to no doubt move to Hartsdale and join the volunteer fire company.  Either way, there are a lot of questions that need to be answered before you begin to cast aspersions upon the volunteers and department as a whole.  

1 hour ago, dwcfireman said:

 

What about if you are a CFR?  Or first-aid/CPR certified?  It would be kind of silly to show up to a cardiac arrest and not conduct CPR just because an EMT or medic isn't present (IMO).  If you don't mind, could you clarify if your department's policy pertains to certain situations like the topic in this thread, or if it is a broad policy for all medical calls.

You raise a good point, which I failed to post in my initial post; our Policy is Paramedic, EMT or under the supervision of one; the one exception to the rule is if the call involves CPR and you are currently a holder of a valid card, then you may actually engage in administering CPR.  Otherwise hands off.

On 8/12/2016 at 1:08 PM, SECTMB said:

At least send over the two FF in a command car rather than tying up the engine. If a call comes in they can meet up with the engine.

In my department, unless you are a paramedic, EMT or under the supervision of either, you cannot  lay a finger on a patient, so we have to wait until the arrival of either.

1 hour ago, fire patrol nyc said:

One would hope there was a good reason,but i can't think of one.......PC?......god save us from ourselves....joe....911 first responder

While this obviously is a show of patriotic display, there are strict guidelines contained within the US Flag code for the proper display of the flag and displaying the flag as they have (and many other departments have as well) is considered in violation of the code.  I'm including a link which shows the proper way to display the American Flag.

http://www.legion.org/flag/code

On 8/12/2016 at 9:55 PM, bad box said:

This video does a good job of showing what commonly happens when a house is on fire in an area not protected by a full time staff of on duty firefighters. By the time the fire department arrives, there's no home left to save.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW70mP_bbfo

 

That's why most people have fire insurance; you hope you never need it, but if you do, it's there.

On 7/27/2016 at 10:01 PM, PCFD ENG58 said:

Rye Brook has hired one of the fired Port Chester firefighters . Its a start !

Great news!  We should also take notice that the Port Chester firefighters were laid-off and not fired.  Fired would equate to a termination of employment (which has a negative impact on one's employment record) whereas lay-off would be for a reduction of work (and has no negative impact on one's employment record). The only reason I bring it up is that you never know who reads these postings; we want to make sure that the Brothers have every opportunity to obtain gainful employment and don't have to explain that they weren't fired to a prospective employer.

24 minutes ago, JP59 said:

Maybe the revolving blue lights will make a comeback for this purpose. You never know.

I stopped using blue lights since (they are courtesy lights and most drivers are not courteous anyhow) they confused more drivers than not; the last thing you wanted to do was to sit at a red traffic light with your blue light flashing and no one from the other three opposing lanes move because they don't know what to make of it.  The way I look at it, I'll get there when I get there.  Btw I do think you may be right on the comeback of revolving lights; it makes common sense.

3 hours ago, JP59 said:

I think the revision to include blue and green lights/ volunteer fire and EMS is a very good thing. My concern is the following, if we are only allowed one blue light by law, which I personally obey this law, then unless you have a rear facing blue or green light on your vehicle, motorists would not be aware you are fire or EMS. I think the majority of us use a dash light. If they aren't aware, what would prompt them to obey the move over law and give us a safer scene to operate at. Just my thoughts.

I haven't used a blue light in probably 10 or more years now, however come January I'll dig out my old revolving blue light and place it on the roof upon arriving on scene, thus ideally drivers approaching the scene will take notice and slow down, etc.

15 hours ago, 410 said:

 

If you have lights "all over your personal vehicle"  you have already broken the law.

You are very correct; you are permitted to display one blue light (of which the candlepower escapes me at the current time) and that's it.  You are also required to have a "blue light" card signed by the Chief and be able to produce it upon demand.

13 hours ago, Rjsii1432 said:

The "move over law" typically only dealt with vehicles stopped on the road/shoulder. A vehicle approaching would have to move over a lane to the left if save to do so. Is that the case here? I haven't seen the actual bill/law. I didn't think they updated the law to require pulling over to the shoulder for blue/green lights approaching from behind. 

The law is a long time in coming; it'll help to make the scene safer for volunteers and in particular for fire police who have to deal with traffic control.  I wish more laws that benefit the fire service like this would get pushed through as quick as this one was.

1 hour ago, nfd2004 said:

Gamewell, I hope that is the case. They all got other firefighter jobs NEVER to return to Port Chester again. 

 

And I hope they win their case and get all back pay that they should have collected as PC Firefighters before some dictator tried to get rid of them.

 

And let those taxpayers know who just is to blame here for costing them all that back pay and benefits.

If they win their case, then most likely they'll be made "whole" for lost wages, benefits (including pension credits, etc); i'm sure the village officials will attempt to sweep it under the rug if they can.

9 hours ago, nfd2004 said:

 Any updates on what's the latest news on these laid off Port Chester Firefighters. The fund raiser has reached $5,320.

 

With word that these firefighters have NOT been given their jobs back, have they filed for some type of legal action ? With reported 4,300 signatures filed to hire them back, what is the argument given for not doing so.  However, even if they did, that is going to take time. Of course the longer this gores on, the more likely it is to cost the taxpayers much more should those firefighters win their case. I assume they are collecting Unemployment right now.

 

Have any applied for other firefighters jobs ? I assume there has also been an increase in response times ? Does the Port Chester Fire Depts respond to medical incidents as well ?

I doubt they are sitting at home collecting unemployment; it's tough to live on unemployment, especially if you live in Westchester and this case could drag on for years depending how long it takes to get through the court system and I'm sure most of them have bills that have to be paid.  The chances are good that they are already working in either a new department or new career.

On 7/4/2016 at 2:46 PM, Bnechis said:

You seam to be the only one with a real problem.

 

sure lets take Port Chester out, I can change the name to many many other communities that believe the local FD is properly staffed when it is operating at such low numbers it can not even meet two in two out without mutual aid. These depts include volunteer, combo and career. My fight has always been about under staffing and calling people something they are not folks the public and the department.

 

last year acity councilwoman in another Westchester community made the comment that she was so proud of the 120 volunteers in their department. The Fire Chief almost fell out of his chair. He had to explain to her that most of the members were in their 70's and 80's and no longer responded to calls, but they were still "members". That brought the total number down to about 50, with only 18 or 19 being interior he said. And of those only a few were really active. In fact they average less than 2 interior firefighters responding to calls. 

 

Not too worry, their are plenty of members!

Barry, the only problem I had was with your divisiveness, which you have a history of in this forum whether or not you recognize it.  It's counterproductive and accomplishes absolutely nothing except dividing people on this forum, that's why I called you out on it.  There's no need to address it in the manner in which you did was my point.

As for the other issues you bring up, that is something that can be addressed by either contacting the responsible parties or the state and work to create the change you desire.