mfc2257

Rural water supply is one of the least understood aspects of the fire service, even among departments who have the equipment to accomplish it. Fact of the matter is that unless it's a straight lay of 5000+ feet on the same road, laying a mile of hose down multiple intersecting streets is a logistical nightmare for incoming units. Couple that with the fact that Westchester County is far from flat or straight with wildly varying hydrant pressures and volumes and successfully completing a mile plus lay of LDH, inserting relay pumpers and establishing a continuous water supply just isn't that easy. This is not an exercise that is easy to practice or drill on because finding geographically unique places to drop a mile of hose to replicate the twisty hilly roads of northern Westchester just isn't practical. Finally the art of fire-ground hydraulics is lost. Most new engineers simply crank the throttle up and ask if the guy with the hose has enough pressure. Balancing hydrant volume/pressure and supply engine intake pressure with elevation changes, friction loss, and the pressure at the attack engine (and all relay pumpers in between) is something that 99% of chauffeurs in northern Westchester aren't skilled at because the last time they had to even think about it was during their pump-ops class with Larry Bremmer at the training center.

Now I remember why I prefer truck work!!!!

I honestly cannot see the allure of a rear mounted tower. Can someone shed some light on why anyone would want such a cumbersome rig?

More reports of a FF in cardiac arrest.

Officer German's cruiser was parked in town today and folks have left flowers and notes to the family on it.

Officer Robert German was fatally wounded by two teenage suspects during the early morning hours of Satruday March 22nd.

http://www.wesh.com/news/suspects-in-shooting-of-windermere-police-officer-identified/25114998?tru=A94Ji#mid=18669890

Windermere is the town I work in and may spark folks memory as the town that Tiger Woods lived in prior to his divorce.

I don't bring this up to take away from Officer German's death, but to bring up the point that this is the most unlikely place for an officer involved shooting let alone a LODD. This is a sleepy little town that is nestled among a chain of lakes. It's smaller than Scott's Corners in Pound Ridge. There are no traffic lights in town.

Regardless if you are patrolling Harlem or the swankiest corner of Westchester (or similar) please don't let your guard down. Stay safe.

RIP Officer German.

2007(I think) Mustang GT

I too have seen the rumor that Chapp. was getting a tanker. I saw it on either massfiretrucks.com or 10-75.net.

Either way, CFD retired and sold E145 in 2013 without a replacement as far as I can tell.

I'm not sure that they needed to replace E145... Truck 27 is a quint where as Truck 3 wasn't. E146 carries a ton of LDH as I recall and the new E144 although I've never seen it in person looks like it probably does too. If they're going to replace R23 with a rescue wagon then I think they'll be in good shape without a replacement for E145. And again a tanker for their district is not a good expenditure of the tax payers money.

I don't know, but they currently do not have a tanker, so maybe it may be a new addition to their manpower...

I highly doubt this. The vast majority of their district is well covered with hydrants. There is one area on the east end of town that borders North Castle that if I recall has a lengthy lay but I cant imagine them spending the money on a tanker for this. Also going back six months on the district meeting notes that are available on their website there is no mention of a tanker purchase.

Am I alone in thinking that this is not a financially viable unit.

I will yield to Barry on the topic of large departments moving towards raised roofs. I also will agree from a response to a previous poster that in a flat roof cab you do have to stoop to exit especially while wearing a scba but I can't recall after 20 years of firefighting and related activities of ever hearing of this causing injury.

(*)

I don't care for raised roof rigs. The flat roof'd Pierce Lances that have become popular in the mid Atlantic I like a lot. Super short wheelbase, basic engine company compartmentation, flat roof.

It's been a while since I've packed up in the back, but I'll tell you honestly that if being able to stand up is a priority while your heading out the road to a working job with the radio squaking then I'm not sure that you are focused on the right things. The only time you should need to stand is when your feet hit the curb. The busiest FD's in the world have done without raised roof cabs for a century. Not sure why we'd spend money on them now.

There reliability is not tested in a comparable setting. 300 calls per year vs running 24/7.

& the delivery trucks in NYC that use them have a life of 3-5 years (according to the biggest dealer in the Bronx as they have 100's of 2009's for sale).

No doubt.. I think I was misunderstood... I'm not advocating for a city department to use a commercial cabbed rig... rather that what is attractive to other departments (the ones not running 24/7) is that they are fixable anywhere. Where the hell do you get a Pierce Quantum fixed in Harlan Kentucky?

Everyone likes to throw "low bid" around but its clearly the lowest bid that meets the minimum specification otherwise if it really was "low bid" FDNY rigs would be this:

P9020070.jpg

And.... Price coupled with the fact that just about anything on that rig (minus the pump and plumbing) can be fixed by a diesel mechanic at the local International dealer make commercially spec'd rigs attractive to departments that don't have the time/money to deal with custom fire apparatus drama. I'm not a huge fan of riding on a commercial chassis rig but you can't argue with their reliability.

Call volume I have little doubt that these rigs will hold up. Their performance on the west coast has been quite good. The biggest problem is potholes and a*******. That's it. Potholes and a*******.

Potholes... If the suspension and chassis can hold up to the jarring of NYC streets it'll be a big victory. Then there are a*******....The ones that cause the chauffeurs to have to constantly be on and off the gas and brakes. If the drivetrain can sustain the abuse (I realize that drivetrain is an independent component, but how it is fitted to the rig determines a good deal of its success) it will be an equal victory.

Potholes and a*******... The Bain of FDNY apparatus for decades.

Seriously we are adults here I think the word a.hole can be allowed in context.

Chief Tome was a close friend of my wife's family.

http://www.wotimes.com/articles/2014/02/12/news/obituaries/obituaries01.txt

Kennedy Space Center Shuttle Program Legend Dies â ROGER DALE TOME, longtime Windermere resident and active-duty firefighter for 52 years, died Monday while out running through the town he so dearly loved. At 71 years old, Roger had no plans to retire from the job he loved at the Kennedy Space Center. He was on the very first Astronaut Rescue team and served as its team leader for the shuttle program. He enjoyed great experiences with the Apollo, Space Lab, and Space Shuttle programs, including travels to North Africa to head up the rescue operations at the contingency landing sites. Roger Tome is one of the few people to have worked at the Space center during the entire Shuttle Transport System history, recently completing 42 years service at the Center and listed as a Kennedy Space Center Shuttle Program Legend. Prior to his position as Assistant Fire Chief at the Kennedy Space Center, Roger served on the Orlando Fire Department where he served for 10 years. He also served his country in the Army Reserves attached to a Ranger Battalion as a medic during the Vietnam era. Roger Tome is known as a man of honor, service, and genuine kindness. He never knew a stranger and was the quintessential person you could always count on to âhelp the little old lady cross the street.â When not on-duty in his younger days, you could find Roger fishing on the beautiful Windermere Chain of Lakes. He had the foresight to buy property in Windermere before he ever married because he knew he wanted to raise a family in this town. The day Roger died was another ordinary day. He picked up his granddaughter from Windermere Elementary as he regularly did. They enjoyed ice cream at Allenâs Creamery on a regular basis. Shortly after, he went for a run, chatting with neighbors along the way. He stepped from this earth to the next spending time with the people he loved in the town he loved. Roger leaves behind his wife, Judi, two daughters, Kristin and Karin, and two grandchildren. Services will be held at First Baptist Church of Central Florida on Saturday, February 15. In lieu of flowers, please consider a donation to the Roger D. Tome memorial fund to benefit the town of Windermere Parks and Recreation department. Checks can be made payable to the town of Windermere Parks and Recreation, in the memo: Roger D. Tome Memorial.

(*)

I'm with Seth... This rig is set up to carry a significant payload. I wouldn't care to speculate what it is given the number and diversity of FDNY's fleet.

Did you read the quoted article from the first post?

(*)

A source I trust has indicated that American LaFrance has closed their doors as of the close of business today.

Honestly I'd be worried about back injuries trying to pack hose in there.... You'd be standing without the ability to bend at the knees and dragging hose using nothing but your lower back as motive power... I'd rather have another few hundred feet and kneel to pack hose.

Just for fun I'll bite and add to the insanity...

Millwood R36 - 1990 Ford L8000/Saulsbury Walk In Rescue (MFC website lists it as a L9000 but it's a L8000)

Millwood T15 - 1994 Kenworth/3D Metals 1500gpm 3600 gal Pumper/Tanker (MFC website lists it as 3000gal tank but I'm nearly positive its 3600)

Millwood E247 - 1998 Spartan/3D Metals 1000gpm CAFS 500gal Rescue Pumper (MFC website lists it as a 750gal tank but its 500)

What's that add Barry.... $1.75mm to the conversation?

So far that's almost 8 million in replacement cost and there are only 9 out of 59 depts. listed. Good thing the tax payers are willing to keep digging deeper to pay for rigs that in many cases have difficulty getting out the door with proper staffing.

How much $$$ are we going to spend before we agree that every square mile in Westchester does not need 3 engines a tower ladder and a rescue?

Amen

Refresh my memory... E186 and E188 were both tandem axle engines with +\- 2000 gal tanks.

Was E186 replaced by T16?

Around the same time did E188 have a dump valve retrofitted?

Very sad.. If the dog is micro chipped, can't they search for it? Hope they find it soon.

No the chip gets scanned if the dog is found to reveal the owner. It's not like LoJack.

They can't get enough money for this to justify its departure. Either keep it or donate it. Why after all this time are they parting with a gem?

How about a little more in the description. What kind of Detroit? 671, 6v71, 8v71? What automatic? Hale pump? ALF pump?

EDIT:

I am sensitive to financial times and being a good steward of taxpayers money. This rig however would make a great training piece for PFDs new drivers. It is invaluable to teach folks on a non computerized rig so they understand foreground hydraulics at their fundamentals.

I'm sure the residents of the Pleasantville fire district have made donations for sillier things than fire apparatus. This rig would serve in Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama, Arkansas, or even in our NY's own rural backyard upstate for many years to come.

EDIT 2: my dumb ass didn't realize it was in private hands already. Ignore my rant in the paragraph above.

I'd still like to know what Detroit is in it... Out 1976 ALF Century (the original E247) had an 8v71 and flew off the line. ALF pump would pull a draft out of the nastiest and shallowest of places... The stream in Mt Kisco behind the Gap and the police station comes to mind!!!!

Wow you all have a way of complicating things. Why not go with the "plan english" suggestion of earlier? As long as you say the department name beforehand, the rest should be gravy. Example: "Stamford Engine 2 en route." "Greenwich Engine 5 on scene."

Because CAD systems need a number to affiliate with a department.