fire2141

Consolidation is all about getting the unions all exited about putting in more paid staff.

Actually I can see where consolidation might hurt an incident like this. This is because the principla reason for consolidation is saving money, which is generally a good thing.
Imagine a county with 25 Fire districts. Of those, 15 have Tankers. Now you consolidate and as part of teh reduction in apparatus, you go down to 10 Tankers. Now this fire that required 8 for a given flow, is using 80% of your Tanker fleet. Not only can't you fight another fire at the same time, you are severly limited in how much you can increase without going right back to using mutual aid.

love the Q in the bumper and the lightbar.

Actually it was designed to work at a snails pace. The founding fathers wanted committee's and debate and time to consider the ramifications.

This discussion, and this website, will often include conversations about operations and tactics. If we can't critique (constructively) operations of our own, or other departments, we'll learn nothing.
Emergency operations from New York City to Peoria deserve analysis and critique. No event is without mistake or action that could be evaluated after the fact. What are we supposed to say? The fire went out, great job guys?
For my own part of this discussion; I was not there, I did not take part. That limits my ability to comment, but photos and resources called raised some points for discussion. I for one will ALMOST never question the request for additional resources. Call more than ya need and send'em home if you find your self in better position to manage the incident with units on scene. At this particular fire, it looks as though the first due department was faced with several adverse conditions and they summoned more resources to overcome them. Fine. I did question the need for members to be operating on a peaked roof, covered in snow, to facilitate vertical ventilation. Vert. Venting is not always particularly beneficial in a PD and the risk of putting members on the roof seems unnecessary. In my dept., peaked roof ventilation is accomplished from the bucket of a tower ladder while the member is belted in. Clearly there is decades of operational experience that calls for such caution. Chainsaws, additionally, are THE. MOST. DANGEROUS. TOOL. we use.
I hope this discussion continues with focus on an, over-all, job well done. However,we can all improve and this is how.
**Discussions on staffing, consolidation and general resources is one that needs a great deal more attention than it's getting, but lets focus here on a single operation, it's merit's and detraction's, and not something fundamental that effects the whole fire service.

Yeah, I'm not sure what all the distress is about. They called a lot of resources at a time when that seemed like the right choice and it worked out. Tough weather, tough geography and a tough time of day. I'm not sure why we latched on to the, "how many tankers" thing....
....call'em, you can always send'em back.
I will make one comment....I saw a couple of photos of guys walking around on a peaked roof, covered in a foot of snow....and I'm moved to ask: Why? Was there an urgent need for verticle ventilation?

I know of a fire in Avon, NY (the CRC fire a few months ago) that used 28 tankers on 2 fill sites! It's amazing what you can do with tankers when you know what you're doing......practice, practice, practice!!
[i'll look for the pics from that scene in the morning. I have no idea where I stored them]

There are no hydrants in this area. This particular road happens to be a dirt road which in the best of seasons can barely accomodate two way traffic. It's one of those areas in town that a chief would dread having to deal with a structure fire on even in the middle of summer.

As the Operations officer at this incident I think I can shed some light on this situation. First, the property conditions that first due units encountered where deplorable. The entire property was covered in 18-20 inches of snow with one, 12 inch wide footpath barely shoveled to the front door. The initial stretch alone was extremely strenuous and taxing on the manpower.
Once interior, crews encountered extreme Colliers Mansion conditions, preventing them from making an expedient advance on the fire on the first floor. The basement, where the heaviest fire was encountered, was a whole different story. Upon making entry to the basement, crews dealt with floor to ceiling junk as well as a well seasoned pile of firewood and the contents of of a woodworking shop.
As far as the apparatus on scene; in that geographical location, due to the lack of hydrants, we were operating from our tanker district alarm assignments, which brings more tankers than manpower carrying apparatus. The time of day is tough on manpower regardless of conditions. Factor in the conditions, and your burning through fresh bodies faster than you can get them there.
In closing, I would like to personally thank all Mutual aid departments for their quick response and assistance.

But those practices can originate from toxic leadership.....

Sort of like the old kitchen table quote. Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story. They can go on TV and try to spin this any which way they please. The facts are indisputable. A gang member from Baltimore shot and killed his girlfriend ( most likely because she was going to out him on his plan ) and headed to NYC to " put wings on pigs today ". I can see the cover of the Times tomorrow. Ismaaiyl Brinsley was a good kid who was only weeks away from attending community college to get his life in order. He was active in his community ( selling crack to the community ) and a role model ( to the kids they hire to sell the crack ). His mother Ms Not his last name and father Mr not his last name ( because he a was being raised by his Aunt ) can't understand what went wrong in his life and can't believe those cops chased their son down the subway and shot him ( he would never kill himself ). Lets blame everyone in society for our problems and not look in the mirror and hold ourselves accountable. WHAT A TRAGEDY IN ALL ASPECTS OF THIS STORY. THANK YOU PRESIDENT OBAMA, MAYOR DEBLASIO, AL SHARPTON ( I refuse to use Rev in front of his name ) JESSE JACKSON AND ALL OF THE HATE SPEWING RACIST LEADERS IN THIS COUNTRY!!!!

President Carter and Mayor Dinkins can now rest easy knowing that 2 bigger tools have taken the heat off of them for being the worst leaders in the history of the US and NYC. President Obama and Mayor DeBlasio are top of my tool list!!!

....but you don't have 1 single day working on an FD100....built on the Ultra, Split Tilt cab.......in the FDNY. So.....there's that....

As much as I like friendly's for some things...THEIR SERVICE KILLED THEM! THE SLOWEST SERVERS IN THE INDUSTRY...JUST LIKE HOWARD JOHNSONS USED TO BE......

I don't think you are fully comprehending what the situation appears to be.
I can't speak to the specific civil service laws involved in this situation, but yes, typically they allow for the selection of one of the top 3 candidates on the established civil service eligibility list. In smaller communities, that selection is typically made by the Mayor or City Manager type position depending on the political structure in place. I get the impression that their system is set up in a fashion that the board votes to confirm the Mayor's selection.
In this situation, it appears that this person was #1 on the eligibility list and WAS selected from among those 3 top candidates. He was NOT simply passed over for selection in favor of one of the other two top candidates. Civil Service testing is typically conducted by a Civil Service Commission which typically does not include local government officials such as Mayors and City Council/Board members. As such, they would not know if he had a "bad interview" unless they somehow "score" the interviews, but if they score the interviews, then it really isn't an interview, it's an oral test.
Since it appears that the board votes to approve the Mayor's selections from the Civil Service list, the board's involvement in the hiring process may actually take place beyond the confines of the Civil Service system. If that's the case, then this certainly wouldn't be a matter of being passed over in the pick one of the top 3 phase, but rather a deliberate decision to deny employment and he would have a pretty good case.
The enactment of Civil Service laws were a direct result of this kind of government misconduct in the hiring process. The reason they didn't approve his selection is so blatantly obvious, that even a blind person could see it.

First, I work on the greatest job on earth, I'm blessed more than I could possibly imagine, my career is not the issue but thanks for talking out of your behind again. I will reiterate, yes he is more important than them, because while they, and you, and I, were home here enjoying freedom, he was overseas fighting for it. I worked my balls off to get my job, but I never begrudged a single person who went before me because they sacrificed their time and safety to fight for mine, and as I go forward I will applaud those who jump over me on promotion lists because of their veterans points. They DESERVE it, in fact they deserve more than this country currently gives them. The veterans points is a mere drop in a bucket for what they actually deserve. I'm over myself, I appreciate the value of others service above myself, whereas apparently you lack the ability to understand that you might not be the most deserving of something, guess you got jumped by a few vets at some point. Maybe you should have studied harder, been smarter, or served in the military and you wouldn't be so bitter.
Matt

Aside from the BS small town politics:What makes him different is that, HE SERVED HIS COUNTRY IN THE MILITARY, SO YES HE IS MORE SPECIAL. It's sad that people like you, with ideas like this who want to enjoy all the freedoms we are afforded, and the status this country has in the world, but don't want to appreciate the men and women who ensure that freedom. The veterans credit isn't awarded arbitrarily, it's points that are deserved and rightly so. Get over yourself and start appreciating the sacrifices some have made so you can live the beautiful, easy, free from fear life that we all enjoy because of their efforts.

This is important because this is political cronyism/corruption at the most local level. Granted there may be equally qualified candidates, but here is a qualified candidate with some extra bells and whistles going for him that is being denied purely for political, not practical, reasons.
Despite apparent overwhelming department and community support, the politicians refuse to deviate from their desired course. Politics must trump all. From a local town council to the Congress of the US, politics is destroying this Country.

What makes him "so diff" as you put it is that this does not appear to be a case of just not doing good enough in the testing process as he apparently was #1 on the list, selected by the Mayor, was endorsed by the Police Chief, supported by the community, but has a sister who is a board member that is not a political ally of the remainder of the board. Take the family relation out of the equation and unless the board is being mum about some sort of serious skeleton in his closet that nobody else appears to know about, this guy would've been unanimously approved.
This isn't the time to just "get over it", this is exactly the type of situation in which a lawsuit contesting the hiring process should be fired, unlike the numerous lawsuits filed on behalf of minorities that don't get hired claiming "racial discrimination" because they simply weren't prepared enough to score high enough on the tests to get hired.

I agree it's not an apples to apples comparison. I'm not 100% sure what he's talking abut but The Villages has a large stand alone department that is not run by Rural Metro and is an IAFF local, I believe the same is true for the County Fire Rescue. Rural/Metro replaced the county EMS organization after they went under a few years ago. As for Rural Metro pursuing large municipal fire contracts that does not appear to be the case. The company nearly went under itself. Their largest flagship operation (Scottsdale, AZ) became a municipal department.

You are trying to compare an ADULT ONLY retirement community in sunny Florida to a congested NY county. You say you spent 30+ years as a FDNR dispatcher? You must know the area Eastchester FD serves. Do you think that 2 firefighters on a rig is a waste of money? I caught a fire the other nite on the 8th floor of a senior citizen apartment. 2 Eng. 1 Ladder and my Duty car : TOTAL 8 MEN. You pay low taxes because the Villages doesn't have to build or run SCHOOLS! Plus the SCAB labor of Rural Metro doesn't provide pensions to it's workers. I'm sure you retired in either Tier 1 or 2 of the NYS Pension system and every month you cash your check. Yet you defend Rural Metro and speak of wasteful spending and "Breaking the Bank". Shame on you, sir.

Been there done that (USS Forrestal 79-81). As any carrier sailor knows, you do you share of firefighting on board as well, especially on the flight deck. Always on your toes being vigilant of everything and I mean everything that's going on around you. Complacency kills, as it does in firefighting as well.

Have you ever been on a flight deck during flight quarters (US NAVY)...Now that's both fun and dangerous! NOTHING COMPARES!

According the the Incident report, Goldens Bridge responded with their tanker. I'm sure it must have been a 'satisfying' feeling to be able to return the assistance they received in their time of need.

Based on what I know of the incident, I think information that has been given till the investigation has conclued has been adequate, that being said any political issues you percieve to be present had no affect on the outcome of this fire. I know that there are people who would try and use this terrible event for personal and political gain as I see which camp this is coming from. I'll also throw in its damn difficult to fight a fire when your turnout gear is in a burning firehouse. You'll most likely get more information as it's released, not sooner.