dwcfireman

Which rigs are you replacing at DFW?

A friend and I were discussing the new Tesla solar roof tiles recently (The website is https://www.tesla.com/solarroof for anyone that wants to take a closer look).  But our discussion of cost versus benefit turned to firefighting tactics as we realized some hard facts about the newer solar technology that is out there.  There are four things that stuck out to me that are going to hinder us at structure fires in the near future, especially as solar power companies start to mimic the Tesla Roof:

1.  The panels are damn near indestructible.  They have a Class 4 FM 4473 hail rating, which is the highest rating on the market.  This means that the panels can withstand a 2 inch diameter ice ball with an impact speed of 100mph.  This is coupled with the Class F ASTM D3161  wind rating, also the highest at 110mph.

2.  The panels are Class A UL 790 rated....the highest fire rating.  This means that they can withstand 1400 degrees Fahrenheit for 10 minutes.  These things are going to absorb a lot of heat energy during a fire, which may result in runoff electrical production (increased amperage).

3.  The panels are INVISIBLE!!!  That's right.  Just go to the website above and take a look for yourself.  You're not going to know that it's a solar roof until you're already at the roof.  This is even more dangerous as they are covered in coated glass, which is slippery even before it gets wet.

4.  The last issue that is going to hinder us is the addition of home batteries.  Tesla markets that you should add the Tesla Power Wall with your solar roof, which means the house is going to remain energized as we work (that's right, not just the solar panels, but the whole house!).

So, what are we left with?  The need to train.  We need to learn our districts and know which homes and structures have solar panels.  We need to learn about the solar systems, especially as to how to shut them down.  And we need to start re-thinking vertical ventilation, as it may not be possible.

I can see this new law being 100% acceptable if it solely targeted the the issue of the re-purposed ambulance still having emergency markings on it.  It should be the responsibility of the new owner to remove all emergency decals and striping prior to the reuse of the ambulance for other ventures.  This would make more sense as old ambulances have been re-purposed for many things around the country, including contractor vans, ice cream trucks, and DPW vehicles.

With that said, could this ban on "slambulances" eventually include other former emergency or governmental vehicles from becoming party venues on wheels?  How long until school buses make the list?  Or walk-in rescues?  Or garbage trucks?  Yes, I'm being a bit satirical, but the long arm of the law seems to be reaching a little too far.

My department requires that you complete your probationary year before you are allowed to display a blue light.  Once you have the permit (signed by the chief) the rest is up to you to obey the VTL.

44 minutes ago, AFS1970 said:

Funny thing about that, one of the proposals I am dealing with is that lights be turned off once you arrive at the scene.

This is definitely a great proposal.  First, with all of the apparatus on scene with flashing lights, the last thing we need is more flashing lights.  Turning off the blue lights on POVs reduces unnecessary distractions.  It's also safer for any local motorists that may be traversing the neighborhood by reducing distractions to them.  Also, there's no need to leave blue lights on when you're no where near your car.

4 hours ago, lalautze said:

I rarely use my light for response but being an officer I occasionally end up going direct to the scene (or come across an incident) and will use it then for visibility on-scene.

My department requires everyone to respond to the fire house, but POVs can go to the scene if there is no apparatus left AND the incident requires additional personnel (like a working fire).  However, I do see where coming across an incident could necessitate some extra visibility.  I've used my lights in a few situations where I've come across car accidents, especially at night.  It provides a beacon of sorts to other motorists to slow down a bit and to help guide in that first emergency vehicle.

First, it's nice to see someone return to their roots and help the people of his/her hometown.  It's definitely a heartwarming story.  More importantly, this is not just someone who lucked out and got the job.  This is someone who cares not only for the city that employs him, but the firefighters that he commands.  Commissioner Thiel seems like someone that we should pay attention to for guidance and ideas.

The value saved falls back on the effectiveness of larger crew sizes.  NIST published their findings in 2010 that 3 FF crews completed tasks 25% faster than 2 FF crews, and 4 FF crews were 30% faster.

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WASHINGTON D.C.—A landmark study issued today by the U.S. Department of Commerce's National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) shows that the size of firefighting crews has a substantial effect on the fire service's ability to protect lives and property in residential fires.

Performed by a broad coalition in the scientific, firefighting and public-safety communities, the study found that four-person firefighting crews were able to complete 22 essential firefighting and rescue tasks in a typical residential structure 30 percent faster than two-person crews and 25 percent faster than three-person crews.

Source: https://www.nist.gov/news-events/news/2010/04/landmark-residential-fire-study-shows-how-crew-sizes-and-arrival-times

Adding moire firefighters to the assignment means tasks are being done faster, safer, and more efficiently; So it makes sense that there is going to be more savings from damage/loss.

I recall a few article from the past where departments did this.  I think it's an awesome, outside of the box idea!  Not only does it save the taxpayers money, but it makes the fire house fit into the neighborhood.  I think it looks a bit gawdy when a large, brick building is just plopped into the middle of a residential neighborhood.

I pondered this for a while, and I'm coming to the same conclusion as antiquefirlt.  Unless Boston ordered new engines with some sort of roof turret, they're still going to have to get up close and personal with the fire.  This doesn't change much other than the speed that the fire is smothered (not extinguished, as foam application doesn't necessarily mean the fire is out, rather it's suppressed efficiently enough to conduct rescue operations).

Dumpster fires and car fires are easily resolved with water.  I can understand with cars that the application of a class B foam will help in the event of an engine fire or fuel system fire, but the cost versus efficiency is not worth it.  Today's norm is to use AFFF or AFFF-AR, both of which are expensive and are designed for large class B fires, such as a burning pool of jet fuel or a tanker of ethanol that is on fire.

As for the picture associated with the article, it seems to be a stock photo of sorts that was used because the firefighters are using foam.  The applicator they are using on the nozzle is used for a higher expansion ration (more air agitation).  Quite honestly, the standard combination nozzle works great for foam application, as you can get extra froth with a fog pattern and the reach with the straight stream.

22 hours ago, FFPCogs said:

I don't think that's a cupola, but rather an air conditioning unit I believe. And I see no problem with using the aerial to remove it as shown. 

I really don't like the way that the AC unit is just knocked around and falls to the ground.  Granted, there was no one underneath it, but it's just sketchy to me that using the stick in this manner can cause something heavy to fall.  I'm sure someone was watching to see where it would go so no one would get hurt.

This video is a first for me as I've only seen the aerial be used to break out windows, not venting the actual roof.

Remember that a lot of newer aerials tend to have other fixtures at the tip, like scene lighting and beacons, that could be broken off during this tactic.  This would just be more falling debris that could injure someone on the ground (like the cupola in the video above!).

Then there's also the fact that you have a lot of manpower on scene so we can tag out and send fresh troops in as firefighters get tired.

7 minutes ago, kinkchaser said:

Yellow rigs are encouraged if not mandated at the airport for fire apparatus as fuel trucks are painted red. We certainly would not want to confuse the two.

Reminds me of this:

https://www.firerescue1.com/Firefighter-Training/articles/1634559-Wash-firefighters-pump-jet-fuel-on-fire-instead-of-water/

Interesting fact...If you buy an ARFF rig using federal funding (through the Airport Improvement Plan), the ARFF apparatus has to be yellowish-green, or, under certain circumstances, chrome yellow or international orange. (AC 150/5210-5D Painting, Marking, and Lighting of Vehicles Used on an Airport)

A bunch of us from the airport went up to Boston for our annual FAA certifications.  Here's a few pics for you guys!

18 hours ago, AFS1970 said:

Second was the idea that this would create 3 organizations. Two VFD's and 1 Career staff (article did not call it an FD) that would all essentially work for the same district. So I am not sure this is really all that much of a consolidation, at least not more of one than they already have. Other than management of the career staff (which might become more complicated) I don't see a big change here. Although much depends on who will be responsible for what, such as apparatus, equipment and stations.

The plan is to keep the two volunteer fire companies separate, and the two along with the career staff would function as a single department.  Since they already work together on several fronts, like you said these consolidation talks seem to be more of a formality.  It seems to me that they want to create an environment where both Fishers and Victor volunteer organizations would be able to maintain their identities.  But it sounds like the plan is to have the career staff deal with more of the day to day alarms that volunteers tend to have smaller responses for.  I think the wording in the article was off on this, so it may be that the career staff may just be stepping up their non-emergency duties like inspections and fire prevention.

On a separate note, and I forgot about this before, is a consolidation that happened in the northeast section of Monroe County in 2004.  The North East Joint Fire District was approved, combining the East Webster Fire District, Penfield North East Fire District, and the Village of Webster Fire Department.  The NEJFD is known as the Webster Fire Department.  [http://www.nejfd.org/content/nejfdhistory/]

18 hours ago, fdalumnus said:

Anytime is a good time to train. 

Train in the morning.  Train in the evening.  Train on a job.  Train until your eyes bleed.  Train until you can do it in your sleep!

18 hours ago, MiFF said:

...My department's drills are in the evening with no immediate plans to change that. They'd just rather b**** about the guys that don't make it...

As someone who also works shift work, overtime, and occasionally a second job, I can without a doubt add myself to the number of firefighters that find it hard to train harder and take extra classes.  It annoys me to no end that there are people in the fire industry that don't want to change training schedules.  I would love to see another drill session each month for my department, but we can't because someone thinks that it will affect members' LOSAP.  He's right, but it's something that can be changed!  But, why change when you can cry a river?

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VICTOR — On May 22, village and town boards will invite residents to weigh in on whether they want to see Victor Fire Department and Fishers Fire District join forces officially, taking their existing day-to-day collaboration to the next level.  http://www.victorpost.com/news/20170502/single-fire-district-for-victor

I know the masses here on EMTBravo love to talk about consolidation, and since I stumbled upon this while reading the news, I figured it could be a fun discussion where consolidation IS moving forward.  So, I'll start us off with some facts and information about the districts.

The Village and Town of Victor are located in Ontario County, in the Finger Lakes Region of New York, about a 20 minute drive southeast from downtown Rochester.

This article states that on March 20, the joint session of the Village and Town Boards of Victor voted to bring the issue of consolidating the two fire districts, Victor and Fishers, into a single fire district.  Since the two districts are already relying on each other for manpower and equipment, to the point where they purchase equipment together (such as their ATV's), the joint boards have put though the idea to consolidate the districts.  The other reason, in which the article points to, is that a single district would also level out the taxes that property owners are paying (where taxpayers in the Fishers district would see a slight decrease, and Victor would see a slight increase).  Leveling out the tax levy, according to Victor Fire Chief Sean McAdoo, puts more tax burden back onto the taxpayers of the Victor district, as they are currently receiving more services under the current mutual aid and equipment purchasing plans.

The Victor Fire Department is based in the heart of the Village of Victor.  The village is tight on space, houses the Victor Central School District, and is heavily congested with traffic along Main Street.  VFD also covers the Victor Fire Protection District, which surrounds the village in the south and west sides of the town.  These areas are generally residential, with multiple subdivisions in the west and some agriculture in the south.  VFD operates with a quint, engine, heavy rescue, brush truck, and two utilities.  The VFD is 100% volunteer staffing.  [http://victorfire.com]

The Fishers Fire Department operates out of two stations, covering the north and west sections of the Town of Victor.  Station 1 is in the west side, comprised of mostly residential, some industrial, and agriculture towards the southern end of the district.  Station 1 is also their headquarters, which houses a quint, engine, and heavy rescue.  Station 2 is at the north end, which is a heavy commercial/retail district, including Eastview Mall, the largest shopping center in the Rochester area.  Station 2 houses an engine, brush truck, and two utilities.  The FFD is a combination department with four career firefighters per platoon (four platoons), but relies heavily on volunteers.  I don't know off hand which apparatus they staff, but I believe it is the engine out of Station 1.  I have not talked to anyone within that organization in years, so my knowledge of the career staffing is a little lacking.  The FFD also covers a large section of the NYS Thruway.  [http://www.fishersfd.org]

In my honest opinion, the fact that these two districts have already been working together as a single unit through training, response, and equipment purchasing, it makes sense for them to consolidate into a single district.  Although only one of the district's taxpayers would benefit financially, it's better for these two districts to completely join forces to increase the benefit of emergency services to the people they protect.  This has been foreseen by many in the area, and the fact that it may actually become a reality is enlightening.

Maybe a trend will start out of this?

Every fire is a challenge.  And every fire is going to be Monday morning quarterbacked.  But I'd rather focus on those scene lights on the bucket...Those things lit up that front yard like daylight!

I was a bit skeptical when the Ascendant was first introduced (as a single axle, 107' stick), but after looking into it I saw that there are definitely department out there that can use it, whether you're in a tight urban district or have a hilly suburban district with narrow roads.  The 110' ladder tower on a single axle has me skeptical at the moment, but I'm sure it would work for some department out there.

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Assemblyman Tom Abinanti, a Greenburgh Democrat, said he didn’t think the state should take a role in pushing consolidation because communities like local control and identity.

 

“I want to suggest to you that what makes Westchester Westchester is the local flavor of each of our communities,” he said. “And while we should be working together on those things that don’t affect the local flavor, we should not destroy a local flavor to chase this imaginary gain of saving taxes.”

My thought process makes me believe that Assemblyman Abinanti actually thinks that consolidation will destroy the "local flavors" of Westchester.  Does he really think that the local flavors will be taken away if there was a single county-run police department?  Fire department?  School district?  Police cars and fire trucks can be outfitted with the local patches on the doors to represent their little nook in the County.  School buses can still have the name of their local area on the side.  The local flavors would not be lost, especially since consolidation of SERVICES has no impact to regular people in their everyday lives.  Pleasantville, for example, will still see people going to Starbucks and getting on the train, and fighting through traffic during rush hour.  But Pleasantville would still be Pleasantville regardless of who is paying for the services.  Oh, wait, the tax payers pay for those services, and they'd be able to afford the vente coffee versus the grande because they're saving money on their tax bills!

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d)         Grant funding to allow volunteer firefighters to attend SUNY Ulster without cost to them;

I was under the impression that volunteer firefighters already could attend SUNY schools at little to no cost under a state program (with some restrictions).  Regardless, this, coupled with the fire service program and a state of the art training facility, is a huge boost for Ulster County and its citizens.

This is just one of the risks when beaching your ladder.  I've never seen it as a big deal.  We used to beach our quint upstate A LOT.  Usually to get it out we would jack it up with the outriggers and place plywood underneath the wheels.

13 hours ago, 61MACKBR1 said:

3 Bay Station 1? There goes any hope for a reactivated Engine 301,...

If designed right, considering the plot of land described in the article, a 4 bay station would definitely fit.  You could probably go up to 6 bays if you make the building taller to accommodate the lost room on the ground.  Meh, that's a pipe dream, though.  A 4 bay station, like the old HQ, makes more sense.

On 3/28/2017 at 5:27 PM, fire patrol nyc said:

They need a house in Ridge Hill!!!

100% AGREED!!!  Ridge Hill has become a small city itself.  Putting a single engine company up there would be a world of help.  Though, it would probably easier to have a couple of those golf kart-like engines like the MTA has in GCT to get around all of the traffic!!!

1 hour ago, Dinosaur said:

 

Considering the median age of former presidents the likelihood that any would be an active volunteer firefighter is slim. 

Further, considering the manner in which our presidential candidates are selected, unless Harvard or Yale starts a volunteer FD, I don't think we're going to see any volly presidents in our lifetimes.

I was bored and came up with this hypothetical lol.

On 3/12/2017 at 9:45 PM, SOUSGT said:

Also the law was changed. Bill Clinton is the last ex president to receive protection for life. Now it only for 10 years after leaving office.

President George W. Bush did enact a law that would rid himself and all future Presidents of lifetime Secret Service protection.  He did this as a way to save taxpayer money as the idea was that since you were no longer POTUS, you were no longer a target.  The enacted law stated that future ex-Presidents (starting with GW) would get 5 years protection post-office and protection would cease.

On 3/13/2017 at 3:40 PM, SOUSGT said:

Snuck that one past me.

President Obama had the law repealed because he believed that no matter your status, if you were POTUS then you will forever be a target, thus to protect the future ex-Presidents for life.  Yes, this was done much more discretely than when GW initiated the change, but it makes some sense that there are probably a few people out there trying to kill you.

Now, let me drop this question on everyone:  WHAT IF, and this is a strong IF, an incoming president was a firefighter (let's say a volunteer for the sake of the argument).  After this firefighter is done being POTUS, would the Secret Service allow him/her to respond to emergencies?  Think about it...If you were the President, and you're a volunteer firefighter, AND you need 24/7 security protection, can you still be a firefighter after the completion of your term(s)?  I'm picturing a Secret Service agent nervously masking up with an ex-President that has the knob and is screaming, "Let's rock and roll!"

1 hour ago, PCFD ENG58 said:

Per the weather Channel  42 inch's at my cabin upstate , near Cooperstown  New York. From the firehouse ramp Richmondville New York

I heard about this.  That's chest deep on most people!