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It's disconcerning to me to read your post referring to any department that has there members respond directly to the fireground. I am the chief in a department that covers 28 square miles of first due district out of one firehouse located in one corner of that response area. It would not be practical from a response time standpoint to have our rigs wait for full crews before they respond. With proper training and management we are able to provide an organized, professional, and effective fire department response. And not only does this include stretching a line, performing searches, and venting the roof (if needed) but also securing a water source and managing any mutual aid resources that were requested. If it hasn't worked for your department I am sorry for that but we have been able to do it in my department for at least the 26 years I have ben a member without it being a "friggin" mess.

NY state law says that the district REQUESTING the mutual aid is liable for damage to any equipment/apparatus that it requested, and the district GIVING the mutual aid is liable for the personnel. For example the, North Fire District has a worker, and they call the South Fire District for mutual aid. While enroute (or on scene or while returning), the SFD apparatus gets into an accident. The NFD is 100% responsible for the apparatus (cost of repair/replacement/etc) The SFD is 100% responsible (workers comp etc) for their personnel.

My Motorola dealer just told me the Minitor 5 pager is being discontinued, and the Minitor 6 is coming out soon(in a few weeks) , But Motorola is not making a Low Band version for the 6. I really don't care about all these new features, they do nothing for me. My 5 works well, but they are dropping it.... What will depts. do who are still dispatched on low band? I think Moto is making a mistake not carrying a low band pager.

More info here..
http://www.pwservice.com/pagers/firepagers/motorola_minitor_vi_6_pager.aspx
Thanks Momma Moto for dropping Low Band......

No, you dont HAVE to make a claim on the other districts insurance. In my mind, a lot of it comes down to the district's commissioners and common sense.
Hypothetically, If my district goes mutual aid to another district, and my axe gets broken, my district is just going to go buy another ax out of it's pocket. It's firefighting, things do get broken in the course of their use, and it was probably time to replace the 20+ year old wooden handled axe with a fiberglass one anyway.. No big deal.
However, if my apparatus is responding to a mutual aid call and gets into an accident thru no fault of it's own, and damage is sustained, well "Mr. you called us mutual aid surrounding district commissioner", you need to call your insurance company, and we need to get this worked out. My taxpayers aren't going to eat the deductible and the associated insurance hike. You called us, and once you placed that call, you assumed responsibility, and you knew that ahead of time. It's spelled out in the law. If you aren't willing to take that chance, that's fine, don't call us.

Now, if there was some gross stupidity on my guy's part while driving to the call, well, that is going to come down to specific circumstances and my board will have to think about it and how we would approach it..

No, the VFBL doesn't apply to career FD's.. But the mutual aid "equipment damage law" applies to EVERYONE, volunteer and career.

No, you dont HAVE to make a claim on the other districts insurance. In my mind, a lot of it comes down to the district's commissioners and common sense.
Hypothetically, If my district goes mutual aid to another district, and my axe gets broken, my district is just going to go buy another ax out of it's pocket. It's firefighting, things do get broken in the course of their use, and it was probably time to replace the 20+ year old wooden handled axe with a fiberglass one anyway.. No big deal.
However, if my apparatus is responding to a mutual aid call and gets into an accident thru no fault of it's own, and damage is sustained, well "Mr. you called us mutual aid surrounding district commissioner", you need to call your insurance company, and we need to get this worked out. My taxpayers aren't going to eat the deductible and the associated insurance hike. You called us, and once you placed that call, you assumed responsibility, and you knew that ahead of time. It's spelled out in the law. If you aren't willing to take that chance, that's fine, don't call us.

Now, if there was some gross stupidity on my guy's part while driving to the call, well, that is going to come down to specific circumstances and my board will have to think about it and how we would approach it..

No, the VFBL doesn't apply to career FD's.. But the mutual aid "equipment damage law" applies to EVERYONE, volunteer and career.

NY state law says that the district REQUESTING the mutual aid is liable for damage to any equipment/apparatus that it requested, and the district GIVING the mutual aid is liable for the personnel. For example the, North Fire District has a worker, and they call the South Fire District for mutual aid. While enroute (or on scene or while returning), the SFD apparatus gets into an accident. The NFD is 100% responsible for the apparatus (cost of repair/replacement/etc) The SFD is 100% responsible (workers comp etc) for their personnel.

NY state law says that the district REQUESTING the mutual aid is liable for damage to any equipment/apparatus that it requested, and the district GIVING the mutual aid is liable for the personnel. For example the, North Fire District has a worker, and they call the South Fire District for mutual aid. While enroute (or on scene or while returning), the SFD apparatus gets into an accident. The NFD is 100% responsible for the apparatus (cost of repair/replacement/etc) The SFD is 100% responsible (workers comp etc) for their personnel.

Or perhaps it keeps the incident commander from calling assets he doesn't really need as he(or his district technically) is now on the hook for responsibility for it.

Bring back Johnny and Roy and Station 51!!!!!!

OFPC puts on a great Ice Rescue class thru the full time instructors they have that travel around the state. It's free, all you need to do is contact OFPC. Great class.

100% agreed. No need to move the dead, they aren't going anywhere.. Quickly control bleeding and get them outside/hand off to EMS. Go back and get more/repeat.

What about those that aren't in traumatic arrest, but wind up bleeding out because it takes so long to get to them? Im not saying the teams go in while bullets are flying, but after a SWAT team has gone in an cleared a wing of a building, send in the grab team. No reason to wait until the whole building is cleared.

I think it can be done, but the medical people need to be in a "grab and go" mindset. A "grab team" under LEO protection could save a lot of lives while the building is still being cleared. The initial entry team of LEO goes in, and starts clearing, while the grab team under the cover from additional LEO follows behind. They don't even need to be EMS to be on a "grab team". No doing patient evaluation/vital signs/treatment/etc... Just make contact, get them on a SKED, and get them out. Those patients that the team cant get to, the team may be able to throw a prepackaged kit of bandages to the patients so perhaps they can do self aid until the situation permits the grab team to get to them.

What about those that aren't in traumatic arrest, but wind up bleeding out because it takes so long to get to them? Im not saying the teams go in while bullets are flying, but after a SWAT team has gone in an cleared a wing of a building, send in the grab team. No reason to wait until the whole building is cleared.

"Risk a little to save a little, risk a lot to save a lot."
Have we forgotten that?

I think it can be done, but the medical people need to be in a "grab and go" mindset. A "grab team" under LEO protection could save a lot of lives while the building is still being cleared. The initial entry team of LEO goes in, and starts clearing, while the grab team under the cover from additional LEO follows behind. They don't even need to be EMS to be on a "grab team". No doing patient evaluation/vital signs/treatment/etc... Just make contact, get them on a SKED, and get them out. Those patients that the team cant get to, the team may be able to throw a prepackaged kit of bandages to the patients so perhaps they can do self aid until the situation permits the grab team to get to them.

Our chief driver is the main guy that trains you on driving apparatus, pumping, etc. he tells the chief it you are ready to drive calls or not, after you have done pump ops, EVOC class, etc.

Our chief driver is the main guy that trains you on driving apparatus, pumping, etc. he tells the chief it you are ready to drive calls or not, after you have done pump ops, EVOC class, etc.

Well you're not taking into the account that he's only a member of the Board, he doesn't have the power to do anything unilaterally, and if the public doesn't like his views then at next years election they can come out in support of someone who opposes his policies. There is no problem with a five year term, as long as there are checks and balances, in this case those being the other four commissioners. You can't just turn everything into one or two year terms, nothing would get accomplished, as it is now politicians spend too much of their time trying to get re-elected, if you shortened their terms then that's all they would focus on. You even sometimes see this with fire chiefs in a one year term, if they want to make any changes they have a few months to try and get things done before they have to start worrying about getting re-elected all over again or bounced out by the old guard who don't like change.

Im not saying it could be done, but it might be a good idea. I can see your point though.

The majority of citizens don't know (and don't give a crap) about the inner-workings of a fire department. All they care about is someone showing up when they dial 911.

In my dept, the requirements for being an house or fire officer is spelled out clearly in the dept bylaws. We have time in the dept AND classes needed to be considered for running for a position. If you don't meet the requirements, you cant run. And to be able to vote on an officer as a member, you have to attend certain percentages of calls, drills, meetings, fund raisers, etc. We have a committee that oversees everything. It has worked well for us.

In my dept, the requirements for being an house or fire officer is spelled out clearly in the dept bylaws. We have time in the dept AND classes needed to be considered for running for a position. If you don't meet the requirements, you cant run. And to be able to vote on an officer as a member, you have to attend certain percentages of calls, drills, meetings, fund raisers, etc. We have a committee that oversees everything. It has worked well for us.

In my dept, the requirements for being an house or fire officer is spelled out clearly in the dept bylaws. We have time in the dept AND classes needed to be considered for running for a position. If you don't meet the requirements, you cant run. And to be able to vote on an officer as a member, you have to attend certain percentages of calls, drills, meetings, fund raisers, etc. We have a committee that oversees everything. It has worked well for us.

The DEC classes are free.